Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Anthony Carricato from Glebe BIA
Last time I heard from him anywhere was at LRT launch

That was a dick move on Watson's part.

Menard requested to be on Transit commission; not only did he not get his wish but the guy he defeated (Carricato) was put on the commission. Undemocratic and disgraceful.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

That was a dick move on Watson's part.

Menard requested to be on Transit commission; not only did he not get his wish but the guy he defeated (Carricato) was put on the commission. Undemocratic and disgraceful.

Watson is the mayor of dick moves.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

That was a dick move on Watson's part.

Menard requested to be on Transit commission; not only did he not get his wish but the guy he defeated (Carricato) was put on the commission. Undemocratic and disgraceful.

His twitter feed is not very busy: https://twitter.com/TonyCarricato

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Just like he said that Line 2 would run faster after Phase 2 when the double tracking was complete. Come on.

Or like how OC Transpo has signed off on the Montreal Road transit "improvements" which will result in (checks notes)… 8 more minutes of transit bus travel time along Montreal Road, the busiest non-transitway route in the city.

[lrt's friend]

Man, is Hurdman Station poorly designed. The buses are so far away from the stairs even at the west end of the train station and that is the closest end. Even at 6:45 p.m. passengers waiting at the various stops are blocking access to further stops. At least one of the closer stops was not in use for anything. Why? The bus stop signs are at the wrong end of each shelter and the shelters block the route numbers. You actually have to walk past the shelter to see the bus route numbers. Move the bus number signs to the other end of the shelters. Please! The next bus displays are very difficult to read from outside the shelters. The ceilings of the shelters are too low to place the displays at an easy to read level and the displays are too small. Talk about cheaping out on a permanent station design.

The old Transitway station was much better designed to allow easy transfers and minimize walking distance, which also meant minimizing missing a transfer. Hurdman is way too spread out now. The out of service bus waiting lot is actually closer to the C-Line station than the active bus stops.

I also see what happens when a bunch of buses arrive at Hurdman together just as a C-Line train arrives. Everybody starts running up the stairs and you could see the natural inclination to either stop the doors and/or push the door buttons. This is not going to change.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Man, is Hurdman Station poorly designed. The buses are so far away from the stairs even at the west end of the train station and that is the closest end. Even at 6:45 p.m. passengers waiting at the various stops are blocking access to further stops. At least one of the closer stops was not in use for anything. Why? The bus stop signs are at the wrong end of each shelter and the shelters block the route numbers. You actually have to walk past the shelter to see the bus route numbers. Move the bus number signs to the other end of the shelters. Please! The next bus displays are very difficult to read from outside the shelters. The ceilings of the shelters are too low to place the displays at an easy to read level and the displays are too small. Talk about cheaping out on a permanent station design.

The old Transitway station was much better designed to allow easy transfers and minimize walking distance, which also meant minimizing missing a transfer. Hurdman is way too spread out now. The out of service bus waiting lot is actually closer to the C-Line station than the active bus stops.

I also see what happens when a bunch of buses arrive at Hurdman together just as a C-Line train arrives. Everybody starts running up the stairs and you could see the natural inclination to either stop the doors and/or push the door buttons. This is not going to change.

Old Hurdman station was a disaster. Sure the bus stops were close which reduced walking but the close stops resulted in huge bus jams. At peak buses would back up at the stop signs out of the station because the stops were all overloaded with excessive numbers of buses trying to share one stop and stops so close together that buses would block other buses from accessing the adjacent stops. The new design may result in longer walks but at least buses can actually move efficiently.

That said the optimal design would have had the loop at the same size, but wrapped around the station with the bus stops being the lower level of an indoor station.

[rocketphish]

Computer issue the cause of Thursday morning LRT delay, the third consecutive day of train trouble this week

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: October 10, 2019

An onboard train computer at Bayview Station suddenly went kaput Thursday, causing a delay on the LRT system for the third consecutive morning.

The silver lining was it wasn’t a jammed train door that caused the LRT slowdown, since the delays on Tuesday and Wednesday mornings were chalked up to customers pushing or prying doors, leaving the head of OC Transpo pleading with people to leave the doors alone.

But John Manconi and Transpo managers on Thursday afternoon were still trying to understand why it took so long for the train computer at Bayview to reset after it went on the fritz around 7:20 a.m.

“Normally, this is a relatively quick reset and we are investigating why there was a delay in the process,” Manconi said in a written statement, apologizing to customers, again, for the morning transit turmoil.

Train service on the 12.5-kilometre Confederation Line didn’t shut down, but service between Tunney’s Pasture and Lyon stations was reduced because Transpo had to route trains around the stalled train. Passengers’ travel times increased by up to 30 minutes. Transpo activated the R1 replacement bus service during the train problem. Full LRT service returned around 8:15 a.m.

Frustration gripped Ottawa City Hall over more LRT delays during the busiest time of the day. The delays have caused major passenger backups at some bus-train transfer stations, such at Tunney’s Pasture.

A couple of hours after LRT service was restored, Mayor Jim Watson said he wanted to find out what exactly happened before making any comments.

“I’ve seen the tweets, I’ve seen the anger that people have and I want to find out what happened and what’s being done to get it fixed,” Watson said in a corridor of city hall.

“It seems to have gone better than the previous two mornings in how fast we were able to get everybody moving,” transit chair Allan Hubley said, adding, “but we’re still not where we need to be. This is not the level of service that we want to provide for our riders, so there’s still work to be done here.”

Hubley, the councillor for Kanata South, said he’s hearing frustration from his constituents.

“This impacts everybody’s day and that’s not what OC Transpo employees want to do. It affects them getting to work in the morning. If they have to make up the time at night, then it’s going to affect when they get home, you know? The only thing I can tell people is, we said ahead of time, this is going to take a little while to get all the kinks out.”

Added Hubley: “It has to be working better than this, not just for my residents, but for everybody across the city. This is not what we want for people.”

Other transit commissioners were hearing it from residents.

Stittsville Coun. Glen Gower said he’s been watching how the transit network has been working this week and receiving feedback from angry residents.

“It’s been pretty awful so far,” Gower said. “Three days in a row where we’ve had significant delays on the morning commute. I’m frustrated. I know residents are frustrated and we’ve got to get these things fixed.”

Gower said Transpo staff have done well to provide information, but council should be turning its mind to the transit problems at its next meeting Oct. 23. The transit commission doesn’t meet again until November after an Oct. 16 meeting was cancelled.

Beacon Hill-Cyrville Coun. Tim Tierney said Transpo’s overseers are calling for answers.

“There is a concern among transit commissioners. We need a resolution to this and more details,” Tierney said, adding that he thinks transportation general manager John Manconi and Transpo staff are doing a “terrific job” responding to the delays.

“Alstom has to be called on the carpet at some point,” Tierney said.

Thirteen double-car Alstom Citadis Spirit trains run on the Confederation Line at peak times.

Cumberland Coun. Stephen Blais, who was chair of the transit commission last term of council but isn’t a transit commissioner this term, said he’s concerned that customers might be returning to their cars for their daily commutes.

“OC Transpo is going to have to figure this out,” Blais said. “We’ve all been pretty straightforward and blunt with John (John Manconi) and Mr. Kanellakos (Steve Kanellakos, city manager) that this needs to get figured out and figured out quickly. We’re going to have to put a big effort to encourage those riders to be patient and stay and anyone who has left (communicate) that the kinks have been worked out and to come back, and once that happens for everyone else who hasn’t been a public transit rider, give it a shot for a week and see how you like it.”

Transpo also said it’s making improvements to bus transfer areas and the LRT vehicles.

For customers who can’t reach the overhead bars in trains, Transpo is looking into installing strap hangers (like the ones on buses) so they can stabilize themselves while standing.

Evening work was planned Thursday to extend a safety railing on the north side of Tunney’s Pasture Station along the edge of the bus roadway. The south bus platform received more paving behind the shelters to help with the flow of people. Transpo is also considering how to give the bus platform better protection from the weather.

At Blair Station, Transpo has added more wayfinding signage and reassigned bus stops to reduce congestion on the platform. An accessible bus is now always on call in case the elevator goes down at the north entrance.

Transpo said more buses will be staged at Tunney’s Pasture and Blair stations during the morning and afternoon peak times to improve service reliability. The agency is also keeping tow trucks ready in case a disabled bus needs to be hauled out of a station.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...nsecutive-day-of-train-trouble-this-week

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Even Monday, Hubley drove (or had a driver) to observe the rush hour commute at Tunney's and Blair while criticizing Meehan for her observations actually taking the train.

I honestly believe Meehan will turn out to be a solid voice on council.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Man, is Hurdman Station poorly designed. The buses are so far away from the stairs even at the west end of the train station and that is the closest end. Even at 6:45 p.m. passengers waiting at the various stops are blocking access to further stops. At least one of the closer stops was not in use for anything. Why? The bus stop signs are at the wrong end of each shelter and the shelters block the route numbers. You actually have to walk past the shelter to see the bus route numbers. Move the bus number signs to the other end of the shelters. Please! The next bus displays are very difficult to read from outside the shelters. The ceilings of the shelters are too low to place the displays at an easy to read level and the displays are too small. Talk about cheaping out on a permanent station design.
The old Transitway station was much better designed to allow easy transfers and minimize walking distance, which also meant minimizing missing a transfer. Hurdman is way too spread out now. The out of service bus waiting lot is actually closer to the C-Line station than the active bus stops.

Having never used the bus at Hurdman I will have to accept your word with regard to the spatial distribution of the stops, the signs and next stop displays. My concern is the location of the station itself and the resultant curvature of the tracks on either side of the station. They should have started the curve as soon as the train comes off the bridge over the Rideau River so it can be travelled at a higher speed. Doing things on the cheap only costs more in the long term and causes more disruption when you have to either shut down or detour an operating system.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I also see what happens when a bunch of buses arrive at Hurdman together just as a C-Line train arrives. Everybody starts running up the stairs and you could see the natural inclination to either stop the doors and/or push the door buttons. This is not going to change.

You are quite correct that you can't change herd mentality. OC Transpo needs to distribute the timing of the buses including even those that are likely to receive bus to bus transfers.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

I honestly believe Meehan will turn out to be a solid voice on council.

She seemed to take an interest and was willing to listen to me at one public meeting. I will be meeting her again on another matter sometime soon. She is now our ward representative while Diane Deans is on sick leave.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Or test 200 getting off in 15-20 seconds at UOttawa. These are obvious Human Factors Engineering problem. HFE are the guys who tell other engineers that your genius solution won't work in real life and doesn't fit into regular human psychology. These problems are entirely predictable. Which means they either didn't have an HFE on staff on the design team, or didn't consider their advice.

Not just enough to test with 600 pax. But you have to test with 600 regular people of all ages and sizes. Not just all RTG/M employees as previously done.

Yeah the UPass math doesn't work anymore. It is predicated on basically scamming those living in residence or student Ghetto so the living at home students can get a cheap pass. If those nearby start taking it one stop they will gum up the whole system. Foreign students in -20 will be even more likely to take it one stop.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Or test 200 getting off in 15-20 seconds at UOttawa. These are obvious Human Factors Engineering problem. HFE are the guys who tell other engineers that your genius solution won't work in real life and doesn't fit into regular human psychology. These problems are entirely predictable. Which means they either didn't have an HFE on staff on the design team, or didn't consider their advice.

Not just enough to test with 600 pax. But you have to test with 600 regular people of all ages and sizes. Not just all RTG/M employees as previously done.

I totally agree that the testing was massively insufficient (particularly given the long amount of time the stations and track were basically done before opening). But also, any human factor engineering was probably done based on earlier assumptions, i.e. that there would be a full complement of rolling stock, that the launch would occur in the summer, and that the doors worked like every transit system on earth and did not break when somebody pushes on them. Once it became clear the full transition to LRT would not occur until October and without a full complement of rolling stock, a more gradual phase out of the downtown connexion routes should have been put in place.

[rocketphish]

The city talked a good game on LRT, but then came prime time

Kelly Egan, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: October 10, 2019

I was contemplating scribbling a humourous guide to riding the LRT — welcome aboard Ottawa, our doors are always open! — except for one little thing.

It isn’t funny — $2.1 billion later, in the first full week, people are walking downtown from stalled trains, or leaping over fences, or feeling trapped in stations instead of transported in tunnels. This is screwed up, royally so. (Things were so bad on Wednesday that Mayor Jim Watson nearly said “a real swear word.”)

If this were a new car, honestly, we’d be throwing the keys at the dealer and asking for a refund. There were, literally, thousands of people inconvenienced this week and we’re lucky nothing tragic happened in all this herding of confused crowds up and down, hither and yon. What awaits in the depths of January?

If only to put on paper what everyone is saying: the doors on the new trains open and close 80,000 times a day, the only real “interface” between people and the interior of the vehicle. Passengers are wonderful, except when they’re not. From experience, we know the doors will be pushed, kicked, leaned on, jammed, pried, scratched, probably barfed and pissed on, the full range of human weirdness.

(Indeed, a newsroom wit wondered this week: wait till Bluesfest when the train is loaded with liquored louts.)

People who make trains know this about passengers. And Alstom has been building trains for 90 years. So, to paraphrase the mayor, why can’t they design and build a damn door that is robust enough to withstand exactly what it knows will happen?

Even if it isn’t a design flaw and is, in fact, an operational problem, it all leads to the same question: why wasn’t OC Transpo ready for this? It has been fiddling and testing the $10-million trains for two years, give or take. Was there never a day when it tried to intentionally jam or pry the doors, then fix them? Alstom, for Pete’s sake, has 36,000 employees in 60 countries. Where did all that experience get us?

One wants to feel sorry for Transpo boss John Manconi, except this is not humanly possible. At a briefing after Wednesday’s fiasco, he did look like a man delivering a eulogy — something sure has died — while trying to explain how a complicated piece of hardware fails.

“Our goal is to have no door issues,” he said, reading from notes at OC headquarters, “but that is not a reality and I will never sit before you and say this will not happen again.”

Not the most reassuring message, but the only one he’s left with. To be fair to OC, they are taking a series of immediate steps to ensure that one failed door does not a) knock the train out of service and b) knock the entire system on its fanny. The most obvious Plan B is one they’re pursuing — lock the malfunctioning door and keep the train in service with 13 of 14 doors operating.

Much of it is on us, apparently, for the places we put our grubby paws. This is weird, since polite Ottawa never met a rule it didn’t want to follow. Manconi went further, asking passengers not to even run for the train, which I thought was a bit rich. We’ll be running for trains as long as people are in a hurry, which is every day.

Someone asked why all these door issues did not crop up in the three weeks of soft-launching before the system went full-on live Oct. 6, without all the parallel bus backup.

The answer is probably in the numbers. The system works fine when loads are light to moderate but begins to develop cracks when operating at its maximum, with full platforms, full trains and a stressed populace on deadline — for work or a mid-term exam. This raises another question: did we properly test the system, for long enough and at full volume, before letting real passengers on?

So now what?

There was talk, even, of bringing back crosstown buses like the 95, to take some pressure off the train and have a ready backup. A desperation move, surely. Now that we’ve ripped the bandage off, there’s no going back. We’re stuck with these trains and we’ve committed to lots more of them in Stage 2.

The fundamental issue is right in front of us, really: OC Transpo, for all its talking a good game all these years, had never run a full LRT system before Oct. 6.

It’s learning as it goes, just like the rest of us. A bus is not a train. Case closed.

To contact Kelly Egan, please call 613-726-5896 or email [email protected]
Twitter.com/kellyegancolumn

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-a-good-game-on-lrt-then-came-prime-time

[rocketphish]

The company that made Ottawa's LRT trains won't discuss them

Tom Spears, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: October 11, 2019

For the second straight day, the company that built Ottawa’s LRT cars has decided not to answer this newspaper’s questions about them.

Any questions at all.

Alstom SA, based in France, said Wednesday morning that its New York media office dealt with North America and would respond to questions, but later in the day the New York office sent an email saying that OC Transpo would have to do all the talking.

Our questions were based on things the manufacturer would know best, including the history of this and other Alstom models, and we told the company this on Thursday.

Here are the exact questions we asked Alstom:

Has this problem occurred in other Alstom trains? If so, what model(s)?
What is causing it?
How easy or difficult is it to fix?
How long will this take?
We understand that holding a door open causes some sort of device to immobilize the train, for safety. But why can’t it simply be reset once the doors do close — say 15 or 20 seconds later?
Do operators need special training to get the train running again once it is stopped?
Lastly, to what extent do you stand behind your product?

City of Ottawa staff said they could answer one question from the list, about training of operators, but the rest were Alstom’s area of knowledge: “Electric Rail Operators (EROs) are trained to safely operate a train in all operating modes. They are also trained to provide initial troubleshooting, respond to train faults, and to provide initial response to emergencies. They are well trained in each of these aspects and can/do resolve most circumstances without noticeable impact to our service.

“EROs do not perform repairs. They can often reset or clear a fault in order to return service as quickly as possible and minimize impact to customers, but there are some situations that will require the assistance from our maintainers. There are also technicians at our stations throughout Line 1 and EROs have the ability to communicate with them should there be an issue. Our primary goal is to rectify the problem and resume service as quickly as possible.”

[email protected]
twitter.com/TomSpears1

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ade-ottawas-lrt-trains-wont-discuss-them

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Man, is Hurdman Station poorly designed. The buses are so far away from the stairs even at the west end of the train station and that is the closest end. Even at 6:45 p.m. passengers waiting at the various stops are blocking access to further stops. At least one of the closer stops was not in use for anything. Why? The bus stop signs are at the wrong end of each shelter and the shelters block the route numbers. You actually have to walk past the shelter to see the bus route numbers. Move the bus number signs to the other end of the shelters. Please! The next bus displays are very difficult to read from outside the shelters. The ceilings of the shelters are too low to place the displays at an easy to read level and the displays are too small. Talk about cheaping out on a permanent station design.

The old Transitway station was much better designed to allow easy transfers and minimize walking distance, which also meant minimizing missing a transfer. Hurdman is way too spread out now. The out of service bus waiting lot is actually closer to the C-Line station than the active bus stops.

I also see what happens when a bunch of buses arrive at Hurdman together just as a C-Line train arrives. Everybody starts running up the stairs and you could see the natural inclination to either stop the doors and/or push the door buttons. This is not going to change.

I agree that as a permanent station, Hurdman's bus loop should have been better designed to offer coverage from the elements and heat. The platform should also have been wider. If they implemented the pathway behind the shelters like they did at Tunney's it would help. In terms of distance though, I don't think it's that bad. It is needed considering the number of bus routes going through the station.

As for your comment about the bus flags behind the shelter, I fully agree. Blair is the same way. It's hard enough to get to the end of the platform with all the crowds without forcing us to do so just to see the bus numbers. Dumb design for sure.

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

I honestly believe Meehan will turn out to be a solid voice on council.

She had a few miss-steps with her Twitter wars early on, but does seem to legitimately care about her constituents' demands.

Originally Posted by CityTech

That said the optimal design would have had the loop at the same size, but wrapped around the station with the bus stops being the lower level of an indoor station.

I agree with this however, part of the reason why the loop is offset is to allow a fare controlled entrance for local users.

Originally Posted by GoTrans

You are quite correct that you can't change herd mentality. OC Transpo needs to distribute the timing of the buses including even those that are likely to receive bus to bus transfers.

That's my girlfriend's biggest complaint. She lived in Montreal for a few years and can't help but compare it to the Metro.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yeah the UPass math doesn't work anymore. It is predicated on basically scamming those living in residence or student Ghetto so the living at home students can get a cheap pass. If those nearby start taking it one stop they will gum up the whole system. Foreign students in -20 will be even more likely to take it one stop.

Even those living on campus will need to get off campus at times for groceries or entertainment. They can also take transit to get to the train station or airport to visit family on holidays. I don't know what the cost of a U-Pass is, but I assume it's worth it for the majority of students.

As for those taking transit for one stop, I imagine that is less common now with the train since stops are more spread-out than before, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue now.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Even those living on campus will need to get off campus at times for groceries or entertainment. They can also take transit to get to the train station or airport to visit family on holidays. I don't know what the cost of a U-Pass is, but I assume it's worth it for the majority of students.

As for those taking transit for one stop, I imagine that is less common now with the train since stops are more spread-out than before, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue now.

Regardless of the economics, I think the Upass is important in attracting students. Nothing says "we don't care about you" like having a 2 universities and 2 colleges on major transit lines and not providing the students with access. I think it benefits our city to get as many students taking transit as possible. With the Laurier stop now gone it must be quite the hike for arts students to get the the North end of campus; we used to take the bus from Campus to Laurier or Rideau all the time (not always paying as there was no UPass in those days and I was poor ). Here's hoping next week on the LRT goes a little more smoothly.

[lrt's friend]

I agree with this however, part of the reason why the loop is offset is to allow a fare controlled entrance for local users.

At Hurdman, the Kiss n Ride and walk in access should not get better access to the station than the vast majority who are doing bus transfers.

The other issue is the horrifically small signs that match up bus numbers and bus platform letters as you exit the station. This is critical information.

As far as the sidewalk width, good grief, there is no reason for their narrow width. They put in a fence behind the shelters that block alternative access but there is no reason why the fence cannot be moved back and do something similar to Tunney's Pasture.

Unfortunately, Hurdman is the 'weak sister' and will not get the same attention as Tunney's and Blair even to the extent that it won't matter to OC Transpo if passengers at Hurdman have to routinely wait multiple trains. It is a matter of priorities.

[lrt's friend]

I wonder if anybody is actually tabulating the comments from this board to identify possible C-Line and Ready4Rail improvements. Not every suggestion is practical to implement in the short-term but useful information regardless. Something tells me with the current panic situation, there is no time to collect our comments, which is too bad.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

At Hurdman, the Kiss n Ride and walk in access should not get better access to the station than the vast majority who are doing bus transfers.

I think the real reason for the layout at Hurdman is to allow a direct north-south axis to the river MUPs from the south without having to go through the fare paid area.