Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Please yes! Hubley obviously doesn't take public transit since he wasn't able to name a single OCTranspo route number when asked this week. It should be a requirement that the transit chair actually take transit. Manconi probably needs to be fired for cause but I'd let him step down with dignity if he promised doing it soon.

Just like he said that Line 2 would run faster after Phase 2 when the double tracking was complete. Come on.

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

While all of this is true, we all know they'd have far fewer incidents if they had more trains running and they were less packed, and their dwell times were more reasonable. The politicians and senior leadership simply don't want to admit they were wrong. So now they've taken to threatening the transit using public.

Watch the number of door incidents drop substantially once there's 2-3 more trains in service.

Bang on. I think that's why we see Watson talking about fines for door jammers but the silence is deafening when it comes to consequences for RTG (or RTM since I think RTG is now dissolved) or firing Manconi or Hubley or accepting any responsibility himself for the series of bad decisions that led us to this point.

[lrt's friend]

The only short-term answer is to start phasing in downtown bus service as soon as possible to take pressure off the C-Line. I would start with the Connexion routes travelling to Tunney's Pasture and all former downtown routes running through Hurdman. If that isn't enough, then restore Connexion routes from Blair. Finally, if necessary, turn back the clock to prior to October 6th. This will be very difficult, but additional trains don't seem to be available so that is a longer-term solution.

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Just like he said that Line 2 would run faster after Phase 2 when the double tracking was complete. Come on.

Exactly. If memory serves he was also asked by Watson this summer to fix the door situation and that obviously didn't happen.

I don't know about you but if I asked one of my employees to do something that important and it didn't get done, I'd probably fire them. And that's even before taking into consideration the massive over-promise and under-deliver sloppy job that was the Line 2 renovation.

[passwordisnt123]

As a temporary solution, if a door is jammed open, couldn't they just manually evacuate that one car and run the train with the one operational car and one empty non-functioning car, even if the doors on that (empty) car are open? That would allow dual track operation to continue and would only reduce the system's capacity by 1/13 (7.7%) instead of a near complete breakdown of the whole bloody thing.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Exactly. If memory serves he was also asked by Watson this summer to fix the door situation and that obviously didn't happen.

I don't know about you but if I asked one of my employees to do something that important and it didn't get done, I'd probably fire them. And that's even before taking into consideration the massive over-promise and under-deliver sloppy job that was the Line 2 renovation.

Agreed, time for Watson to make a big move, but he can't just fire people, he needs to have a good plan and successors in mind for these positions.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Exactly. If memory serves he was also asked by Watson this summer to fix the door situation and that obviously didn't happen.

I don't know about you but if I asked one of my employees to do something that important and it didn't get done, I'd probably fire them. And that's even before taking into consideration the massive over-promise and under-deliver sloppy job that was the Line 2 renovation.

Seemed like they rushed the opening of the line instead of waiting for full four weeks for testing. I wonder if the mayor rushed the opening knowing the door issue wasn't 100% fixed.

[CityTech]

I wonder how quickly more trains can go on. We never got any word on how much more work those 2 missing trains required.

I know this isn't ideal, but I wonder if they can run without spares during the AM peak. IIRC, they have 15 trains but use 13 (the original plan being to have 17 trains but use 15).

I know its risky to run without spares, but currently they're losing trains every morning anyway. Might as well run with all 15 and have to sometimes to down to 13 or 14 instead of running with 13 and sometimes going down to 12.

13 seems to work fine in the PM peak and they probably work fine in the earlier and later parts of the AM peak, so we could get away with launching the 2 spares at 7am and taking them off around 8:30am. At least until we get the 2 extra trains.

I also wonder how far along the Phase 2 assembly is. We might be able to put some of those on in a few months.

Perhaps we should also initiate the process of getting the extra module added to the trains. Would probably take years but would be great to get this done ahead of Phase 2 launching.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

Seemed like they rushed the opening of the line instead of waiting for full four weeks for testing. I wonder if the mayor rushed the opening knowing the door issue wasn't 100% fixed.

The biggest fault lies on Manconi. His organization decided to

a) Accept a side platform configuration at Tunney's
b) Force all West end traffic there, guaranteeing that every single train will be crush loaded unlike in the East where the load is more distributed and the fact that Blair's centre platform empties with each train, but people miss a train and have to wait for the next one to arrive there at Tunney's
c) Compound the problem again by forcing mlst non transitway centretown routes onto the train

So while I've resisted, I think I'm now in the #firemanconi camp

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by CityTech

I wonder how quickly more trains can go on. We never got any word on how much more work those 2 missing trains required.

I know this isn't ideal, but I wonder if they can run without spares during the AM peak. IIRC, they have 15 trains but use 13 (the original plan being to have 17 trains but use 15).

I know its risky to run without spares, but currently they're losing trains every morning anyway. Might as well run with all 15 and have to sometimes to down to 13 or 14 instead of running with 13 and sometimes going down to 12.

13 seems to work fine in the PM peak and they probably work fine in the earlier and later parts of the AM peak, so we could get away with launching the 2 spares at 7am and taking them off around 8:30am. At least until we get the 2 extra trains.

I also wonder how far along the Phase 2 assembly is. We might be able to put some of those on in a few months.

Perhaps we should also initiate the process of getting the extra module added to the trains. Would probably take years but would be great to get this done ahead of Phase 2 launching.

We have 17 certified trains. It appears that we cannot reliably put more than 13 trains on the tracks at any one time. How long has it taken to repair the trains taken out of service in the last 3 days? We have had no indication.

Train 18 and 19 are sitting at the Belfast maintenance facility but are not fully assembled. They were put on hold to focus on bringing Phase 1 into service. Those 2 extra trains would be handy now, wouldn't they? But they are probably months away from availability for regular service.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Please yes! Hubley obviously doesn't take public transit since he wasn't able to name a single OCTranspo route number when asked this week. It should be a requirement that the transit chair actually take transit. Manconi probably needs to be fired for cause but I'd let him step down with dignity if he promised doing it soon.

Even Monday, Hubley drove (or had a driver) to observe the rush hour commute at Tunney's and Blair while criticizing Meehan for her observations actually taking the train.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We have 17 certified trains. It appears that we cannot reliably put more than 13 trains on the tracks at any one time.

I thought the issue was that 2 trains weren't quite certifiable. They stress tested the line with 20 trains at once and that was fine.

[J.OT13]

Apparently on July 31, Manconi wrote a letter to Council (and by extension, the public probably) informing them that the trial run would be halted for 48 hours however, that letter was never delivered. Did someone order him not to do it? The Mayor? Kanellakos? Hubley?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/re...ottawa-1.5314907?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We have 17 certified trains. It appears that we cannot reliably put more than 13 trains on the tracks at any one time. How long has it taken to repair the trains taken out of service in the last 3 days? We have had no indication.

Train 18 and 19 are sitting at the Belfast maintenance facility but are not fully assembled. They were put on hold to focus on bringing Phase 1 into service. Those 2 extra trains would be handy now, wouldn't they? But they are probably months away from availability for regular service.

There are more than 4 LRVs sitting in various levels of assembly at Belfast right now.

Originally Posted by CityTech

I thought the issue was that 2 trains weren't quite certifiable. They stress tested the line with 20 trains at once and that was fine.

They were all certified. They were 20 singles that were run and it seems apparent that running singles doesn't necessarily mean the doubles will behave the same way.

[J.OT13]

They claim trains can handle 600 passengers, but is that not theoretical? On paper only? Did they actually try to fit 600: get 600 people to go down to a Tunney's platform and board a train, see how well that works, and then maybe run to Blair and instruct x,y,z to get off at certain high volume stations and see how plausible that flow really is?

[Radster]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

They claim trains can handle 600 passengers, but is that not theoretical? On paper only? Did they actually try to fit 600: get 600 people to go down to a Tunney's platform and board a train, see how well that works, and then maybe run to Blair and instruct x,y,z to get off at certain high volume stations and see how plausible that flow really is?

Would have been a great idea, but I somehow doubt that was done.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

There are more than 4 LRVs sitting in various levels of assembly at Belfast right now.



They were all certified. They were 20 singles that were run and it seems apparent that running singles doesn't necessarily mean the doubles will behave the same way.

You are right. 4 LRVs which would make up Train 18 and 19.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

They claim trains can handle 600 passengers, but is that not theoretical? On paper only? Did they actually try to fit 600: get 600 people to go down to a Tunney's platform and board a train, see how well that works, and then maybe run to Blair and instruct x,y,z to get off at certain high volume stations and see how plausible that flow really is?

I bet you that they didn't test putting 600 passengers on a train to see what issues might arise.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I bet you that they didn't test putting 600 passengers on a train to see what issues might arise.

Or test 200 getting off in 15-20 seconds at UOttawa. These are obvious Human Factors Engineering problem. HFE are the guys who tell other engineers that your genius solution won't work in real life and doesn't fit into regular human psychology. These problems are entirely predictable. Which means they either didn't have an HFE on staff on the design team, or didn't consider their advice.

Not just enough to test with 600 pax. But you have to test with 600 regular people of all ages and sizes. Not just all RTG/M employees as previously done.

[orleans_man]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

They claim trains can handle 600 passengers, but is that not theoretical? On paper only? Did they actually try to fit 600: get 600 people to go down to a Tunney's platform and board a train, see how well that works, and then maybe run to Blair and instruct x,y,z to get off at certain high volume stations and see how plausible that flow really is?

That's a good point. I would be curious how confident the city is in the 600 number and how they gained that confidence? It was stated as 600 well before it was delivered. However, based on my observations (much to do with narrow aisle and flow), I would say we would be lucky if are getting 500 people on those train sets. My guess, even when the train is packed, is that there is about one standing passenger for each one seated. 240 seats * 2 = ~480.