Winnipeg Construction IX

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by esquire

Eventually a connection to the north/east with a bridge over the Red is a must too. There is no point to a half-assed rapid transit system... what's the point of spending millions on a ROW only to have it spit buses out on the street as they approach downtown?

Yeah exactly. If this system is to actually be of any use it has to be done right. Unfortunately steps have already been taken in the wrong direction with the whole parker lands fiasco and we're well on our way to exactly the type of half-baked system you're cautioning against. This line could cross the Red but I think it should focus on the west side of the river and go down Main or Selkirk or something like that. Make a proper N/S line out of this then build a couple more corridors which serve more E/W directions.

I am of the belief that unless it is more or less fully grade separated on its own dedicated ROW it shouldn't be labeled as RT. I also think that we really do need to focus on getting RT built out. Especially around core areas first then gradually radiate outwards. The whole point of RT is to serve congested core neighbourhoods and relieve the pressure on the streets. They should build something that focuses on central areas and feed it with buses to the suburbs.

[bomberjet]

There's no way to get a grade separated RT, etc, etc thing connecting the current transitway down Main St. unless it is overhead. Unfortunately, again, I see none of it happening anytime soon. And I hate being a Debbie downer..

I'm patiently awaiting the outcome on the eastern corridor. Anyone have info on when it can be expected? It's overdue according to the timelines no City website.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

There's no way to get a grade separated RT, etc, etc thing connecting the current transitway down Main St. unless it is overhead. Unfortunately, again, I see none of it happening anytime soon. And I hate being a Debbie downer..

I'm patiently awaiting the outcome on the eastern corridor. Anyone have info on when it can be expected? It's overdue according to the timelines no City website.

The City is in a bit of rut financially right now, and I don't think they can borrow much more money to fund large infrastructure projects because the north end water treatment plant expansion is absorbing much of the City's future debt capacity.

Unless there is willingness from the tax base (or politicians) to continue the expansion through additional taxes or fees, I have strong doubts that we will see another leg of dedicated transit infrastructure within the next 10 years.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Really? A million? I like street art like anyone else but that seems excessive for what's essentially a stylish bell and some seating.

Maybe the insurance costs are high.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

The City is in a bit of rut financially right now, and I don't think they can borrow much more money to fund large infrastructure projects because the north end water treatment plant expansion is absorbing much of the City's future debt capacity.

Unless there is willingness from the tax base (or politicians) to continue the expansion through additional taxes or fees, I have strong doubts that we will see another leg of dedicated transit infrastructure within the next 10 years.

Pretty much it. We should at least have an ultimate plan of what it would look like. In the mean time installing median lanes on Provencher or whatever is a good start at local improvements.

The City is basically throwing in the towel on a connected RT network.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

The City is in a bit of rut financially right now, and I don't think they can borrow much more money to fund large infrastructure projects because the north end water treatment plant expansion is absorbing much of the City's future debt capacity.

Unless there is willingness from the tax base (or politicians) to continue the expansion through additional taxes or fees, I have strong doubts that we will see another leg of dedicated transit infrastructure within the next 10 years.

Rut? I thought we broke even or made a small surplus, and got a surplus in Transit (due to more than fair fare increases).


The only "ruts" we have are the physical kind, the ones that make up our daily commute on our non-maintained roadways.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

Rut? I thought we broke even or made a small surplus, and got a surplus in Transit (due to more than fair fare increases).


The only "ruts" we have are the physical kind, the ones that make up our daily commute on our non-maintained roadways.

The city has to break even. They aren’t allowed to post a deficit.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

Rut? I thought we broke even or made a small surplus, and got a surplus in Transit (due to more than fair fare increases).


The only "ruts" we have are the physical kind, the ones that make up our daily commute on our non-maintained roadways.

If you know of any financial modelling methods that can perfectly predict operating income 1 year out, then you should go work for the City immediately. The point being, having plus or minus $10 or $20 million in a consolidated annual budget excess of $1.5 billion isn't really that big of a deal. In the private sector, companies regularly fall below or above their expected earnings or expenses for the quarter, never mind the whole year, just listen in on an earnings call sometime.

And even so, in the grand scheme of things, I think you fail to understand just how expensive capital projects are, and how an extra million dollars here or there is virtually meaningless on that type of scale.

The truth about the city's finances is that annual capital budgets are about $370 million, the majority of which is devoted to local and regional street renewal and water treatment. Since the City is very close to it's debt ceiling and has been taking out very long-term debt (20 to 40 years in some cases), there isn't much room for the City to borrow to finance massive projects over the next several decades. Therefore major new projects not in the works will need to be financed with cash up front, and on projects like rapid transit that can be hundreds of millions of dollars, it is generally very difficult for the City to find that sort of money on an annual basis without finding a new avenue of revenue (i.e. increased property tax or some sort of new fee/tax).

Given that Winnipeg already has among the lowest municipal property tax out of all major Canadian cities, we honestly don't deserve a rapid transit system until the public's mindset changes. But right now, Winnipeggers seem to care about 3 things: keeping property tax low, filling potholes, and funding the Police, and the City has done a great job allocating money to those two initiatives given the constraint of having low tax, but it's come at the cost of everything else.

[bomberjet]

The rut is the City has an 'infrastructure deficit' in the billions and we have no way of catching up. Not just roads, but everything needs upgrades. And there's not enough money, we just keep falling further behind. Bridges are falling apart. Pools are closed for major issues. City Hall is a dump. Community centres are dumps. Arenas, parks, etc. Never mind programming and services that continue to decline.

At some point these facilities and programs will permanently close with no replacements. I guess the deficit will eventually be 0 when everything is closed. We'll need to pick and choose what stays and what goes. Which has already begun. I will give Sam Katz credit in he got done a lot of what he said would get done. There's even a thread somewhere on SSP proving this. Of course corruption being a major issue as well.

[EspionNoir]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The rut is the City has an 'infrastructure deficit' in the billions and we have no way of catching up. Not just roads, but everything needs upgrades. And there's not enough money, we just keep falling further behind. Bridges are falling apart. Pools are closed for major issues. City Hall is a dump. Community centres are dumps. Arenas, parks, etc.

You are overly exaggerating

[bomberjet]

Am I? The City is billions of dollars behind in basic maintenance. Same with the Province.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Am I? The City is billions of dollars behind in basic maintenance. Same with the Province.

City is actually trillions of dollars behind. Province is quadrillions behind.

[bomberjet]

haha right?

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/winnipeg-s-infrastructure-deficit-sits-at-6-9-billion-1.3846421

Heres an article from last year. This seems mostly focused on roads, bridges, etc. This is where we start choosing. Things like Arlington bridge. There is no money regardless of your opinion.

Manitoba
http://www.amm.mb.ca/issues/infrastructure-and-asset-management/

[esquire]

In fairness, probably just about everywhere in Canada is billions of dollars or more behind when it comes to infrastructure. Nowhere in Canada is even remotely close to Singapore/Hong Kong/Munich type levels.

[bomberjet]

This is true.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

haha right?

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/winnipeg-s-infrastructure-deficit-sits-at-6-9-billion-1.3846421

Heres an article from last year. This seems mostly focused on roads, bridges, etc. This is where we start choosing. Things like Arlington bridge. There is no money regardless of your opinion.

Manitoba
http://www.amm.mb.ca/issues/infrastructure-and-asset-management/

The report for the city does say we've improved the deficit by $3 billion since 2009 though which is a positive. At least we seem to be narrowing the infrastructure deficit gap. Shouldn't it be a infrastructure debt as it is a total cost of infrastructure monies needed not a recurring annual shortfall that continues to accumulate.

[buzzg]

The solution is pretty simple, build cities denser. It's not rocket science, we wouldn't need nearly as much infrastructure if the city was more dense. Then we would have more money to build more effective transit that more people would use. It's so simple.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by buzzg

The solution is pretty simple, build cities denser. It's not rocket science, we wouldn't need nearly as much infrastructure if the city was more dense. Then we would have more money to build more effective transit that more people would use. It's so simple.

I isnt exactly that simple but I agree that it would be a good start. Density alone won't solve everything but it is certainly lacking in this town. Higher density would make a lot of things better in Winnipeg.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

I isnt exactly that simple but I agree that it would be a good start. Density alone won't solve everything but it is certainly lacking in this town. Higher density would make a lot of things better in Winnipeg.

It's not like we need to suddenly start housing everyone in highrises or something like that either. Just starting with marginal changes would probably add up to a fair bit. I mean, would anyone notice if you lopped 2m off front yards and 1m off back yards in new subdivsions? Or what if you made it easier to build the "missing middle" lowrise multifamily along collector roads (again, particularly in new areas)? Or what if you decreased parking requirements so every new big box didn't end up with parking spaces that absolutely never, ever ever get used? (When was the last time you parked in the outermost row of spaces at a mall or at Walmart?)

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by esquire

(When was the last time you parked in the outermost row of spaces at a mall or at Walmart?)

Hmmm....when was the last time I owned a new car???

Seriously though I agree with optimusREIM that the infrastructure deficit can probably be helped by increased density.

That being said, I think the "infrastructure deficit" in Winnipeg is part of a trend that affects just about the entire country (if not the continent). I don't think it is helped by our harsh weather conditions either. I know it doesn't lessen our infrastructure needs, but I personally hope to avoid falling into the trap of thinking Winnipeg is somehow uniquely afflicted in this respect (what I think I'll call the "what is wrong with US?" trap).