Winnipeg Construction IX

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by pspeid

So is the perceived "need" for a downtown grocery outlet a myth, or is it just impractical from a business standpoint? Would downtown residents be happier with a number of smaller "boutique" food retailers (bakeries, fancy meats, etc.) than with a Sobeys? Sorry to keep on nit-picking at this point (and yes I know it's been discussed to death) but is seems like "a large downtown grocery store" is often trotted out as a combined magic bullet and Holy Grail to make downtown residency flourish.

A large grocery store's supposed need and magical powers are quite overstated, though a centrally-located supermarket would obviously be a nice thing for downtown residents. I don't think One Big Chain Supermarket would necessarily be a game-changer. I live a three-minute walk from a 50,000 s.f. Safeway, but I use it much like I used the 4,000 Food Fare I used to live near: like a convenience store with good selection and occasionally great deals. People aren't simple robots who go to whatever food sales depot is nearest; they act on a complex variety of incentives. That's something urbanists sometimes don't see very well when talking about emerging high-density neighbourhoods in downtown or TOD areas.

It's a lot like saying:
"Places to go to eat or have a drink within walking distance is an essential component of an urban neighbourhood." (Yes!)
*A Boston Pizza opens.* (Okay!)
"This neighbourhood now has a place for everyone to go to eat or a drink, so let's just sit back and wait for the stampede of new residents to come running." (K good luck with that.)

[rkspec]

I noticed the site where the new concordia health and fitness center has been recently cleared with just a couple trees left. It could just be regular maintenance or cleaning up after the snow melted as it was a dump site.

[bomberjet]

That had been cancelled by Pallister. It was supposed to open in 2017 or something, according to the sign. We'll see what comes of the site works.

[ediger]

Originally Posted by pspeid

So is the perceived "need" for a downtown grocery outlet a myth, or is it just impractical from a business standpoint? Would downtown residents be happier with a number of smaller "boutique" food retailers (bakeries, fancy meats, etc.) than with a Sobeys? Sorry to keep on nit-picking at this point (and yes I know it's been discussed to death) but is seems like "a large downtown grocery store" is often trotted out as a combined magic bullet and Holy Grail to make downtown residency flourish.

When you consider how spread out downtown is, I think a series of small/medium sized stores catering to smaller residential clusters makes more sense than trying to make one large central downtown grocer work. Put something like the downtown Family Foods in the East Exchange and that will make a huge difference. Plus, smaller boutique stores makes for a more interesting street scape. I'd rather have 5 different looking store fronts than one block long wall of windows.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by ediger

When you consider how spread out downtown is, I think a series of small/medium sized stores catering to smaller residential clusters makes more sense than trying to make one large central downtown grocer work. Put something like the downtown Family Foods in the East Exchange and that will make a huge difference. Plus, smaller boutique stores makes for a more interesting street scape. I'd rather have 5 different looking store fronts than one block long wall of windows.

I definitely concur with that

[Wpg_Guy]

But a grocery store like Loblaws Maple Leafs Gardens would be amazing

[Riverman]

^ My wife calls it a grocery storegasm.

[buzzg]

I completely agree, 1 or two more like Family Foods would be more than enough. Would want them a little nicer and not so cramped and dingy feeling though haha.

[ediger]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I completely agree, 1 or two more like Family Foods would be more than enough. Would want them a little nicer and not so cramped and dingy feeling though haha.

That one could use a refresh, it feels very 1990s. If a few more opened up they could probably reduce the amount of stock they carry and create a bit more space.

Something like the MLG Loblaws would be incredible but I think the downtown population would have to increase drastically or be more condensed to make something like that work. With pockets of residential scattered all over downtown it's tough to make something central for everyone and within a short (5-10 minute) walk.

[goldenboi]

I think we sometimes overstate the extent to which Downtown Winnipeg is spread out.

If a grocery store were to locate in the centre of the SHED, it would be within a 10-15m walking distance of all downtown residents, including the Exchange, Central Park, and Broadway Assiniboine.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

I think we sometimes overstate the extent to which Downtown Winnipeg is spread out.

If a grocery store were to locate in the centre of the SHED, it would be within a 10-15m walking distance of all downtown residents, including the Exchange, Central Park, and Broadway Assiniboine.

From that perspective, a large swath of downtown including the West Exchange, North Portage and the SHED are within a 15 minute walk to the No Frills on Notre Dame. But having done the carrying groceries a long way home thing when I was a student I can say that it isn't a ton of fun and isn't for everyone.

Using the 15 minute walking standard, it's really just the East Exchange among downtown neighbourhoods that doesn't have a mainstream grocery store within a 15 minute walk. But there are the Chinatown shops not too far away, and the Family Foods on Donald is about 20 minutes away.

If a grocery store opened somewhere close to Main Street between Graham and Logan, that would mean that pretty well all of downtown was covered in terms of walkable grocery stores.

(For whatever reason people tend to discount the Donald St. Family Foods, but it is a legit full service grocery store... when you go to very large cities, a lot of people buy their groceries from places like it. Big suburban-style supermarkets are somewhat rare in urban settings, especially in European cities)

[buzzg]

I stop at the Family Foods on my way home sometimes, and it does have everything you could need, but it honestly feels so dingy and dirty in there I can't bring myself to do big shops there. It even makes me question the produce.

I also couldn't live without President's Choice... unless magically Trader Joe's expanded here haha. Edmonton is about to get its second Loblaws City Market in the Ice District. 22,000 sqft. Don't see why one of those couldn't do well here.

[esquire]

Edmonton probably has exponentially more residential development happening, yet that will be their first and only downtown supermarket (Yes I know that there is a Save On foods are right on the edge of downtown, but you could say the same for the Osborne village Safeway, or No Frills)

[1ajs]

exchange also has yongs on william thats about 2 blocks from city hall?

[ywgwalk]

Having the separated bike paths actually goes a long way to making the slightly-too-long-to-walk grocery stores accessible without a car. Living in the east exchange I've actually found myself (dutch) biking to the Osborne Safeway and back a fair bit simply because there's routes to get there and back that are relatively simple.

Finishing up Garry will make that ride even shorter.

[Wpg_Guy]

we’re working toward finishing several pieces on the outside of the building. The storefront facades feature original cast iron columns with highly detailed ornamental pilasters and cornice work.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw95RGdAnHo/

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

exchange also has yongs on william thats about 2 blocks from city hall?

Do they sell (Dairy) Milk? How about Bread?

Last year I checked out the ethnic Chinese grocer near Pembina & Plaza. Not much there if you want standard stuff. I noticed lots and lots of packaged noodles and stuff like that. But other stuff? Nothing. Not knocking it. Just saying that it's not for everyone.

I too found busing it to the Safeway at McGillivray when I stayed at the Capri last Summer. Good thing about that corner is that the Ft. Garry Library is practically across the street. So I'd pack up my laptop and head to the Library and when they closed or when I had enough Internet, I'd pack up again, head to Safeway, get some groceries, then catch a 160 or 162 bus.

Couldn't do that when I was in St. Vital near Fermor & St. Anne's Rd. The major benefit of that location was the choice between Safeway, about 5 mins. walk, and Superstore, an extra 3 mins. The St. Vital Library is a bit away from St. Anne's, closer to St. Mary's. I always enjoyed watching the moving parking lot that is Fermor on a weekday afternoon, as long as I wasn't on a 16 Osborne Island Lakes waiting for that traffic to move.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

Do they sell (Dairy) Milk? How about Bread?

Last year I checked out the ethnic Chinese grocer near Pembina & Plaza. Not much there if you want standard stuff. I noticed lots and lots of packaged noodles and stuff like that. But other stuff? Nothing. Not knocking it. Just saying that it's not for everyone.

I too found busing it to the Safeway at McGillivray when I stayed at the Capri last Summer. Good thing about that corner is that the Ft. Garry Library is practically across the street. So I'd pack up my laptop and head to the Library and when they closed or when I had enough Internet, I'd pack up again, head to Safeway, get some groceries, then catch a 160 or 162 bus.

Couldn't do that when I was in St. Vital near Fermor & St. Anne's Rd. The major benefit of that location was the choice between Safeway, about 5 mins. walk, and Superstore, an extra 3 mins. The St. Vital Library is a bit away from St. Anne's, closer to St. Mary's. I always enjoyed watching the moving parking lot that is Fermor on a weekday afternoon, as long as I wasn't on a 16 Osborne Island Lakes waiting for that traffic to move.

always worth exploring all the options. i cant recall if they sell bread or milk as i dont buy milk ever but there is a corner store within an eye shot of yongs on elgin that would have both those if u went there also a butcher there

[davequanbury]

Originally Posted by esquire

From that perspective, a large swath of downtown including the West Exchange, North Portage and the SHED are within a 15 minute walk to the No Frills on Notre Dame. But having done the carrying groceries a long way home thing when I was a student I can say that it isn't a ton of fun and isn't for everyone.

Using the 15 minute walking standard, it's really just the East Exchange among downtown neighbourhoods that doesn't have a mainstream grocery store within a 15 minute walk. But there are the Chinatown shops not too far away, and the Family Foods on Donald is about 20 minutes away.

If a grocery store opened somewhere close to Main Street between Graham and Logan, that would mean that pretty well all of downtown was covered in terms of walkable grocery stores.

(For whatever reason people tend to discount the Donald St. Family Foods, but it is a legit full service grocery store... when you go to very large cities, a lot of people buy their groceries from places like it. Big suburban-style supermarkets are somewhat rare in urban settings, especially in European cities)

Just thought I'd add this to the discussion, I work at the institute of urban studies and they produced this report which maps the distances to grocery stores...

http://winnspace.uwinnipeg.ca/bitstream/...on%20In-Brief.pdf?sequence=6&isAllowed=y

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by davequanbury

Just thought I'd add this to the discussion, I work at the institute of urban studies and they produced this report which maps the distances to grocery stores...

http://winnspace.uwinnipeg.ca/bitstream/...on%20In-Brief.pdf?sequence=6&isAllowed=y

Thank you for posting your report! Our discussion here has only been on one facet of the areas you cover here (are there enough supermarkets downtown?) but this really shows the greater issue in contexts I hadn't considered.