Calgary International Airport II

[s211]

Originally Posted by BlaineN

I think there are a fair amount of people who still do the Calgary thing from Edmonton. We have friends in Edmonton and they've driven down and stayed with us the night before a flight a few times. I wonder if anyone keeps track of the stats for that?

Ugh... people who travel like that must not value their time highly, that's all I can think.

[loonytoon44]

Originally Posted by BlaineN

I think there are a fair amount of people who still do the Calgary thing from Edmonton. We have friends in Edmonton and they've driven down and stayed with us the night before a flight a few times. I wonder if anyone keeps track of the stats for that?

LOL do you blame them? Seriously saving $900 when you are a single income family is huge. Granted that was on the basic fare and even the savings from the eco+ was not that different, maybe $200 less.

I know my coworkers are going back to the UK in September and they are also flying from Calgary as Edmonton was too expensive to travel with three kids and two adults.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by loonytoon44

I am from Edmonton, going to London in June I saved $900 after all the ancillary fees for my partner and I to travel from Calgary instead of Edmonton. Yes It means a 2.5hr drive and parking but still, that is insane!

It's a lot up front but keep in mind:
1. parking. Assuming you are gone one week that's going to be ~$80
2. vehicle expense. Using CRA numbers of $0.58/km and 289km x 2 = $335 to drive your own vehicle.

So $335+$80 = $415 to drive to YYC and fly from here. If you are overnighting at a hotel you can add that in too. But assuming you are not then the savings is not $900 but really $485. Not exactly chump change but 5 hours of your time (each) to drive works out to valuing your time at $48.50/hour in order to drive down here to fly.

[BlaineN]

Originally Posted by lubicon

It's a lot up front but keep in mind:
1. parking. Assuming you are gone one week that's going to be ~$80
2. vehicle expense. Using CRA numbers of $0.58/km and 289km x 2 = $335 to drive your own vehicle.

So $335+$80 = $415 to drive to YYC and fly from here. If you are overnighting at a hotel you can add that in too. But assuming you are not then the savings is not $900 but really $485. Not exactly chump change but 5 hours of your time (each) to drive works out to valuing your time at $48.50/hour in order to drive down here to fly.

Parking's a wash, as you'd have to pay either way. My friends park their car at our place, and pay $45.00 for a cab out to the airport, whereas it would be double that in Edmonton. Also, let's be honest, it doesn't cost $335.00 to do a round trip from Edmonton to Calgary, despite what CRA uses as a guideline. Given that my friends do the drive to Calgary pretty much once a year, there must be some benefit to it.

[topdog]

Originally Posted by lubicon

It's a lot up front but keep in mind:
1. parking. Assuming you are gone one week that's going to be ~$80
2. vehicle expense. Using CRA numbers of $0.58/km and 289km x 2 = $335 to drive your own vehicle.

So $335+$80 = $415 to drive to YYC and fly from here. If you are overnighting at a hotel you can add that in too. But assuming you are not then the savings is not $900 but really $485. Not exactly chump change but 5 hours of your time (each) to drive works out to valuing your time at $48.50/hour in order to drive down here to fly.

Most people don't consider a trip to Calgary as = $335.00, plus like others have mentioned, you still need to pay parking either way, and if cabbing it to YEG, you're paying a lot.

It's not always about money it's about timing and convenience as well. Back in September when we were in NYC, we met a family from Edmonton who said they drove down to Calgary en route to New York. The flights were cheaper, but also they could go direct. The cheapest flight from Edmonton was still more than Calgary and it meant going through US customs in Toronto, which everyone knows is a pain in the ass. They could have gone through MSP but the flight times and layover sucked. Calgary in the end was not only the cheapest, but also the most convenient.

Of course it depends where you're going. YEG, does have some decent directs to the U.S, though not near as many as YYC.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by topdog

Most people don't consider a trip to Calgary as = $335.00, plus like others have mentioned, you still need to pay parking either way, and if cabbing it to YEG, you're paying a lot.

It's not always about money it's about timing and convenience as well. Back in September when we were in NYC, we met a family from Edmonton who said they drove down to Calgary en route to New York. The flights were cheaper, but also they could go direct. The cheapest flight from Edmonton was still more than Calgary and it meant going through US customs in Toronto, which everyone knows is a pain in the ass. They could have gone through MSP but the flight times and layover sucked. Calgary in the end was not only the cheapest, but also the most convenient.

Of course it depends where you're going. YEG, does have some decent directs to the U.S, though not near as many as YYC.

Agreed with everything you say, that is all true. And yes, people do not consider the cost of driving to be that but that is a pretty close estimate, people just do not realize this. Yet it is continually left out of the cost equation.

Originally Posted by BlaineN

Also, let's be honest, it doesn't cost $335.00 to do a round trip from Edmonton to Calgary, despite what CRA uses as a guideline.

That is debatable

[thegoodlife]

Originally Posted by lubicon

Agreed with everything you say, that is all true. And yes, people do not consider the cost of driving to be that but that is a pretty close estimate, people just do not realize this. Yet it is continually left out of the cost equation.

The real cost of a trip to Calgary is somewhere between the price of gas which changes on a daily basis, and the .58/km used by CRA. There is no real accurate way to calculate the cost per kilometer even if the price of gas stayed the same. Depending on the car you drive, and the type of road your on, it's going to vary, so don't go by their figure. I would say the real cost is going to be a range between $250 and $350 ($2350.00 if you're driving a large truck or van) either way for a group of people you're going to save money, which is why many still do the 'Calgary Habit' If you were only going to save $200.00 for a family of 4, people wouldn't do it, b ut $900.00 minus the $300 or so dollars in travel costs? Yeah for sure.

[thegoodlife]

This is very true. Flights out of Calgary may be more convenient even if you include the drive. This is often the case if you're going to a US destination not served with a non-stop from Edmonton. (ie Atlanta, Nashville, New York, Chicago, Dallas, Portland, San Diego, Salt Lake City) Many of those you can fly to via Calgary, but the timing might not be convenient, especially if Atlanta or New York, and you're going through Toronto. Then you've got the international flights on top of that. In some cases it might be more convenient to drive down to Calgary and go direct.

Originally Posted by topdog

Most people don't consider a trip to Calgary as = $335.00, plus like others have mentioned, you still need to pay parking either way, and if cabbing it to YEG, you're paying a lot.

It's not always about money it's about timing and convenience as well. Back in September when we were in NYC, we met a family from Edmonton who said they drove down to Calgary en route to New York. The flights were cheaper, but also they could go direct. The cheapest flight from Edmonton was still more than Calgary and it meant going through US customs in Toronto, which everyone knows is a pain in the ass. They could have gone through MSP but the flight times and layover sucked. Calgary in the end was not only the cheapest, but also the most convenient.

Of course it depends where you're going. YEG, does have some decent directs to the U.S, though not near as many as YYC.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Acey

Of course it's debatable, which is why using some standardized figure is nonsensical. My car is half the sticker of my buddy's car, burns about half as much on the highway, and mx costs are about half. How could our trip costs possibly be the same? So again, it's the actual figure minus the cost of driving to YEG plus parking there, which you neglected to include but skew it far enough in favour of the fact that it's a no brainer to drive to YYC for many trips.

You might find this document interesting. It's from 2013 but spells out the numbers quite clearly and is still pretty relevant:
https://www.caa.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/CAA_Driving_Cost_English_2013_web.pdf

It compares the annual costs of a Honda Civic, Toyota Camry and Chevy Equinox. Not surprisingly, the more kilometers you drive per year, the cheaper cost per kilometer you get from your vehicle. So yes, it really does vary, but it isn't too hard to figure out.

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by s211

Ugh... people who travel like that must not value their time highly, that's all I can think.

I think for most people that would be worth $900...

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by lubicon

289km x 2

I think you should only count the differential between airports, and not from north Edmonton. So from Leduc to YYC is more like 200km x 2, and I suspect it wouldn't be 58 cents per km for any reasonable car older than a year. Further, the CRA rate is like retail, and when using your own car for your own purposes, you don't count retail. It would be like me saying that my house would be $400/day to rent if it were to Air B&B it, so when I live in my own house, instead of prorating actual costs, I'll just go with $400/day. Doesn't make sense.

Alternatively, they could take the bus that takes you directly to YYC from Edmonton.

Additionally, it could be seen as a benefit to come to the Province's largest city.

[BlaineN]

My thoughts too. You can't use the CRA number as the guideline, it's nonsensical. The cost is always going to be different. Using that guide provided by Marzim helps if the gas price is static, but gas prices also change.
When they build a high speed rail between Calgary and Edmonton, they should have a stop at the airport, so Edmontonians can simply use YYC instead

Originally Posted by Acey

Of course it's debatable, which is why using some standardized figure is nonsensical. My car is half the sticker of my buddy's car, burns about half as much on the highway, and mx costs are about half. How could our trip costs possibly be the same? So again, it's the actual figure minus the cost of driving to YEG plus parking there, which you neglected to include but skew it far enough in favour of the fact that it's a no brainer to drive to YYC for many trips.

Originally Posted by Mazrim

You might find this document interesting. It's from 2013 but spells out the numbers quite clearly and is still pretty relevant:
https://www.caa.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/CAA_Driving_Cost_English_2013_web.pdf

It compares the annual costs of a Honda Civic, Toyota Camry and Chevy Equinox. Not surprisingly, the more kilometers you drive per year, the cheaper cost per kilometer you get from your vehicle. So yes, it really does vary, but it isn't too hard to figure out.

Originally Posted by thegoodlife

The real cost of a trip to Calgary is somewhere between the price of gas which changes on a daily basis, and the .58/km used by CRA. There is no real accurate way to calculate the cost per kilometer even if the price of gas stayed the same. Depending on the car you drive, and the type of road your on, it's going to vary, so don't go by their figure. I would say the real cost is going to be a range between $250 and $350 ($2350.00 if you're driving a large truck or van) either way for a group of people you're going to save money, which is why many still do the 'Calgary Habit' If you were only going to save $200.00 for a family of 4, people wouldn't do it, b ut $900.00 minus the $300 or so dollars in travel costs? Yeah for sure.

[BlaineN]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

I think for most people that would be worth $900...

If you look at 4 -6 hours of driving it's the equivalent of somebody working on a weekend to make $150 - $200 an hours, so yeah definitely worth it.

[loonytoon44]

I understand there is wear and tear on the vehicle. Yes I have to pay a whopping $45 for parking at a hotel near the AirPort and have to shuttle to the airport. When you are a traveller who doesn’t use credit to travel (no debt going on a holiday) while being a single income family, yes you overlook the distance and car wear and tear to save $900. I get that it will cost me 5 hrs of driving (there and back) but then again, can visit my brother and friends before I go... not a waste in my books.

[LO 044]

This whole discussion means nothing as it is one example for one person and it probably depends on the route and how far in advance the flights are booked and so on so blanket statements either way mean nothing. In my example for a family of five who travels to Europe i can never find cheaper flights out of YYC and believe me i try to look at every possible angle for this. A couple of years ago my flight to Tegel was $900 return from YEG and $1,300 return from YYC and this was not on Rouge. To this day i think AC had some kind of computer glitch but who the hell knows. In that example i saved $2,000 flying from YEG.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Acey

Unless I'm misreading, that document seems to peg the trip cost at $0.15/km for a Civic. Gas here is cheaper than the national average they used, and my car burns less than the example they used. That appears to be quite a difference from the figure stated above.

That's the variable trip cost you're looking at. Keep going down to see the fixed costs you need to add per kilometer. Then you can see below that how the costs decrease as you travel more per year.

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by Acey

There's obviously routes for which it is cheaper to fly from YYC, many of which have more YEG originating pax than most everywhere in Europe.

Do you have stats of every originating passenger from YYC that shows their home address and what percentage have a home address from Edmonton? I wouldn't think those stats are readily available.

[BlaineN]

Originally Posted by LO 044

This whole discussion means nothing as it is one example for one person and it probably depends on the route and how far in advance the flights are booked and so on so blanket statements either way mean nothing. In my example for a family of five who travels to Europe i can never find cheaper flights out of YYC and believe me i try to look at every possible angle for this. A couple of years ago my flight to Tegel was $900 return from YEG and $1,300 return from YYC and this was not on Rouge. To this day i think AC had some kind of computer glitch but who the hell knows. In that example i saved $2,000 flying from YEG.

We do know for sure that some people from Edmonton are still coming down to Calgary to catch flights. How many and why? Who knows, but we know it still happens and it must be beneficial to those who do it, or they wouldn't do it. Pretty simple.

It's always going to be on a case by case scenario, but I have heard many say that flights are often cheaper from Calgary, and it would make sense given the higher volume of flights. It's also possible it could be because of convenience given the higher number of non-stop destinations from Calgary. whatever the case, it happens, and seems to work for those who do it, and it's not just one example. Three different people here have given examples of someone they know doing it, it makes you wonder what the numbers are? They might be higher than we think.

[hoboman27]

The airport's AGM is today. In an hour's time actually, anyone on the forum going (Cage I'm looking at you)? Ask some questions for us? I don't know WestJet, Swoop, Flair, Max8, whatever?

https://www.yyc.com/News/tabid/91/articl...t-Authoritys-Annual-General-Meeting.aspx

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Acey

What I meant is that the destinations for which an Edmontonian may see cheaper fares originating in YYC are the cities that tend to have high total numbers of Edmonton originators, vs something like TXL. The proof of this is reasonably readily and publicly available, as we know fares and we know O&D numbers to many markets.

The statistic you seek, as I stated above, would not be readily available.

I wonder if YYC would ever investigate a once a day morning bus from Edmonton straight to our airport, with a once a day return late evening, all mated up with airport servicing that could meet the "acceptable" bar for folks who'd then have to hand around for a number of hours? In addition to gaining direct customers, this could also help (modestly) some of the airport businesses. Just a thought.