[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[Larla77]

Originally Posted by wmemeadusjr

St. John's did studies in recent years about density and vowed to become less sprawled going forward. I'm scratching my head here, but didn't the opposite happen? Any proposal for downtown was usually met with pure outrage by council and a vocal minority....while at the same time, excavators levelled more and more woods to make more sprawling low rise office parks like Hebron Way and Kelsey Drive.

We have too many big box areas in the North East Avalon plus more coming: Stavanger Drive, Kelsey Drive, Merchant Drive plus Galway, Kenmount Crossing, and Paradise in development. Developers bought up land on the outskirts years ago (Danny, the Dobbins, etc) and are now cashing in.

[RRoome]

I'm in Montreal for school right now, and I think what they've got going on works well - the old historical district is mostly untouched (the real downtown by the waterfront) and the business district is further uptown near the mountain.

Why not designate Kenmount (Avalon Mall & surroundings) as a business district with highrise potential, and keep downtown as lowrise shops/etc. I think downtown west being zone for highrise is a good start, but there's little potential for expansion in the long-term, whereas Kenmount has no heritage properties nearby and a ton of room for expansion. Granted, it needs some more parallel streets to improve congestion on Kenmount itself.

[Marty_Mcfly]

To be fair, we've pretty much reached our highrise "maximum". With the abysmal office vacancy rate, we won't be building any new, large office buildings for quite some time. That leaves residential apartments/condos, and hotels. We're probably reaching the maximum on downtown hotels too, and it would serve the city much better to have residential towers situated in the downtown west area.

You could say we're a little too late on the "highrise" problem. I think the city handled it well back 6-7 years ago, though I think an abolishment of the 50m height maximum in the downtown west area could have lend itself to better land use through taller, skinnier developments, allowing for more development.

I would agree that the parking situation in downtown, with lots everywhere, needs to be changed. Good luck on getting council to take away parking though.

[Johnny Engine]

Originally Posted by RRoome

I'm in Montreal for school right now, and I think what they've got going on works well - the old historical district is mostly untouched (the real downtown by the waterfront) and the business district is further uptown near the mountain.

Why not designate Kenmount (Avalon Mall & surroundings) as a business district with highrise potential, and keep downtown as lowrise shops/etc. I think downtown west being zone for highrise is a good start, but there's little potential for expansion in the long-term, whereas Kenmount has no heritage properties nearby and a ton of room for expansion. Granted, it needs some more parallel streets to improve congestion on Kenmount itself.

I think that a combination of the area's geography, and the already locked-in urban sprawl makes it hard to have a cohesive city that's built this way. Going from the Mall to downtown, or any other hub you can name, feels like travelling to a different city, and the fact that there's no natural flow of people from one to the other in the run of the day is in the end the one overarching problem downtown faces.

the distance between Montreal General Hospital (near the more westerly part of the mountain) and Jacques Cartier Bridge (near the more easterly part of the waterfront) should take in most if not all of the area you're referring to - it's actually shorter than the distance between the Polina/Kenmount and Water/Prescott! And in a much larger city with more walkable terrain to boot.

[statbass]

Hey folks, I have to say, there's been some really good discussion and engagement here around the struggles and challenges of downtown. I think some progress has been made (e.g. The Mix, Star of the Sea and other condo developments) in the past 10 years or so. But, as many stated, there's still much more to be done. Keep up the discussions and thoughts... it's great to hear all viewpoints.

This is just my observation, but the struggles downtown is experiencing is not unique to SJ. I think many small-mid size cities are seeing a similar trend along this line and many have the same challenges. Many times comparisons are made to larger cities such as, Montreal, Toronto, etc. These are well developed cities (although they still have big challenges with sprawl, etc). The points made are valid and thought-provoking; but I'd like to know how other cities of similar size are dealing with sprawl and issues in their downtowns... good, bad, ugly?? I'm thinking along the lines of Moncton, Saskatoon, St. Catherine's, etc. Maybe there's things working well there and can be implemented here.

Just a thought on my part...

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by statbass

This is just my observation, but the struggles downtown is experiencing is not unique to SJ. I think many small-mid size cities are seeing a similar trend along this line and many have the same challenges. Many times comparisons are made to larger cities such as, Montreal, Toronto, etc. These are well developed cities (although they still have big challenges with sprawl, etc). The points made are valid and thought-provoking; but I'd like to know how other cities of similar size are dealing with sprawl and issues in their downtowns... good, bad, ugly?? I'm thinking along the lines of Moncton, Saskatoon, St. Catherine's, etc. Maybe there's things working well there and can be implemented here.

Just a thought on my part...

See this is where I disagree. I think St. John's is unique compared to most other N.A. cities. Between the geography of the harbour area, difficult topography/terrain, lack of a typical grid layout for roads, high degree of NIMBYISM....the combination of these factors makes the distribution of sprawl and density very uneven.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by statbass

Hey folks, I have to say, there's been some really good discussion and engagement here around the struggles and challenges of downtown. I think some progress has been made (e.g. The Mix, Star of the Sea and other condo developments) in the past 10 years or so. But, as many stated, there's still much more to be done. Keep up the discussions and thoughts... it's great to hear all viewpoints.

This is just my observation, but the struggles downtown is experiencing is not unique to SJ. I think many small-mid size cities are seeing a similar trend along this line and many have the same challenges. Many times comparisons are made to larger cities such as, Montreal, Toronto, etc. These are well developed cities (although they still have big challenges with sprawl, etc). The points made are valid and thought-provoking; but I'd like to know how other cities of similar size are dealing with sprawl and issues in their downtowns... good, bad, ugly?? I'm thinking along the lines of Moncton, Saskatoon, St. Catherine's, etc. Maybe there's things working well there and can be implemented here.

Just a thought on my part...

I think Victoria is probably doing the best in this regard among mid sized Canadian cities, its downtown area is as good an example as you will find to follow.

[jeddy1989]

Some more news on the Downtown situation. The parking change is a VERY welcome action!!

City council to consider amendment to allow waiving of parking requirement

ST. JOHN'S, N.L. — Mayor Danny Breen says members of the City of St. John’s council are pursuing a change in regulation to allow sitting councils to waive parking requirements for new developments in the downtown.
“It will encourage development in St. John’s,” Breen told The Telegram, when asked about the move.

He raised the change during a leader’s panel session at the St. John’s Board of Trade’s “Outlook ‘19” event, at the Delta Hotel and Conference Centre on Wednesday. After the session, he said a related notice of motion can be expected Monday, at the next city council meeting.

“Right now there’s requirements that council has no discretion on. So whatever type of building you have has a requirement for parking, and if you can’t meet the requirement you have to pay cash in lieu. So if you’re short, say, 100 spaces and it’s $20,000 on a space, that’s a $2 million cost on your build,” he said.

The parking demands can already be waived by the council when outside of the downtown, he said. Regulations specific to the downtown are different.

Payments in lieu of meeting the requirements are a one-time charge, and still require general approval for the project from the city council.

Breen said he doesn’t believe the requirements for downtown are really there in all cases. He used Mile One as an example. “If you were to build another performance centre down there, because of parking — the way it’s required at night and (given) there’s garages to handle it — you really wouldn’t need that (parking space requirement),” he said. “So what this does, is it gives council discretion to say ‘OK, in this type of development, we’re able to not require that parking.’”

The shift was already under consideration for entirely new development regulations yet to be implemented, but Breen said council doesn’t want to be in a position now where a proposal comes forward that they can’t address in the way they’d like.

In addition to mentions of downtown parking and development, he spoke to the cost associated with federal wastewater demands, snowclearing and a handful of other topics currently on the radar of the city council, during the board of trade panel session. He was joined on that panel by provincial Natural Resources Minister Siobhan Coady and, by teleconference, MP Nick Whalen.

https://www.thetelegram.com/business/st-johns-introducing-change-for-downtown-projects-282571/

George Street Association Calls For Task Force On Downtown Business Woes

The George Street Association is calling on the city to create a task force to look into issues faced by businesses operating in the downtown.

Vacancy rates have seen an increase as business feels the pinch from a tough economy and what it sees as stifling tax rates.

Association executive director Jonathan Galgay says he’s not talking about just Water and Duckworth—he wants such a task force to look at the broader downtown.

Many people see the downtown as unique and deserving of special attention, while others believe that all businesses—no matter where their location—should be treated equally.

Galgay says city council has been doing a very good job of keeping businesses in the loop regarding phase two of the downtown water and sewer project, but a task force is needed to address other matters.

He says the review should be led by an outside facilitator. He adds that there are many challenges and many great ideas out there.

Mayor Agrees Work Needs Doing, But Good Things Happening Downtown

Meanwhile, the Mayor of St. John’s says he is positive for the future of the City’s downtown.

Mayor Danny Breen says he agrees that there is work that needs to be done and there is a plan in place with the Business Improvement Association.

Breen says there is a lot positive things happening downtown. He says there are new developments like a new hotel in the plans and there are a lot of businesses in the downtown that have opened in the last while.

Breen says towards the end of the first quarter this year, there will be a movement by Downtown St. John’s.

He says the movement is to bring businesses together so they can work together and with City Council for a better future for the downtown.

http://vocm.com/news/george-street-association-calls-for-task-force-on-downtown-business-woes/

The pressure to act on the situation is rising! Good stuff!!

[statbass]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

See this is where I disagree. I think St. John's is unique compared to most other N.A. cities. Between the geography of the harbour area, difficult topography/terrain, lack of a typical grid layout for roads, high degree of NIMBYISM....the combination of these factors makes the distribution of sprawl and density very uneven.

Yes, very true... St. John's does have it's own unique set of challenges, no argument from me there. I guess what I was meaning to say is that we must share some challenges similar to cities of our size. May be exploring what these cities are doing may help leverage ideas for St. John's. Architype mentioned Victoria, which is probably a better choice than what I listed. Others, in past posts, have mentioned European cities like Reykjavik. Our challenges may be more similar to theirs... I'm not sure.

I guess my point is that I don't think we (the city) can solve this issue all on our own. I think a solution exists; however, I feel we need help and guidance from other jurisdictions to come up with a solution.

[613_YYT]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

See this is where I disagree. I think St. John's is unique compared to most other N.A. cities. Between the geography of the harbour area, difficult topography/terrain, lack of a typical grid layout for roads, high degree of NIMBYISM....the combination of these factors makes the distribution of sprawl and density very uneven.

I mostly disagree that St. John's is so unique. I think that is an excuse that we use so we don't have to face the facts that St. John's isn't that appealing. It needs change to attract people from outside the province to the city.

There are few areas that truly shaped by geography. The Battery comes to mind. The rest of the city has big hills but none that were prohibitive and most were developed pre-car. Leslie Street, for example.

The old part of the city, like most cities, has a grid layout. Just look at a map. Inside of Empire Ave is a grid. There are a few off angles or jogs due to reducing the grade or issues finding property owners after the 1892 fire when streets were widened as fire break and established a better grid. After the 1950's, car use increases and urban design shifted (or the other was around?) and a road hierarchy put in place. This was the idea of street-collector road-arterial. This gave us cul de sacs and wide sweeping roads which further made car use the only reasonable more of transport. And so cities all sprawled more. For St. John's, the 1950-1960's Churchill Park Development was the first suburbs and the end of the grid. Just scan maps of most cities, see where the grid end and you can usually guess the decade.

NL is different in that most other places have a population that accepts some change and are more positive. There is a very vocal opposition for most things in NL which causes this place to be very resistant to change. I don't want to call it NIMBYism because people feel like they have the right to comment on everything that is happening in the province whether it effects them or not. When it comes to something like DT St. John's then you are also fighting the nostalgic image of what someone who visits like twice a year has. Call in radio shows create echo chamber as it gives a very big platform to the few that more noise, which is usually negative. And the political culture here to give in to the loudest side as opposed to using science, logic and reason to plan policy which leads to the statue quo.

Further reading about the last point: Article on call in radio and government influence in NL: https://www.cjc-online.ca/index.php/journal/article/view/2653/2705

[613_YYT]

The former chief planner of Toronto, Jennifer Keesmaat, wrote a very good article for Maclean's about how secondary cities can take advantage the unaffordability of Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal and make themselves appealing to younger adults and small business. Right now it's all or nothing. Live in a big cities with vibrant urban neighbourhoods with transportation and housing options or a sleepy suburban cities with struggling downtowns. Keesmaat points to Portland as an example to be copied:

"Portland, Ore., holds a clue. It has been consistently and diligently executing a plan that, for more than 40 years, rejected sprawl, and instead linked land use with transportation planning, economic development, green spaces and strong neighbourhoods. It’s been more resilient than most American cities, priding itself on a startup culture that includes everything from microbreweries to green-tech companies—industries that ensured it rebounded better than pretty much any city since the Great Recession.

Remarkably for a mid-sized city of only 640,000, it has an integrated public transit system that includes a network of LRT, streetcars, and buses. Despite its wet climate, Portland has long recognized cycling infrastructure as a component of its transportation system. They’ve built everything from so-called “neighbourhood greenways” to cycle tracks and off-road paths. But bike lanes alone didn’t produce this outcome: building a compact city made transit and cycling real choices for commuting and everyday tasks. With its urban growth boundary, implemented in the 1970s, Portland has focused on bringing uses in close, creating walkable, mixed-use neighbourhoods, and exploiting old industrial areas, such as the Pearl District. Here, residents live cheek-by-jowl with galleries, shops and light industry on small blocks with carefully designed infill buildings or restored warehouses. It’s the kind of neighbourhood that attracts tourists in a big city. Better still, Portland is consistently ranked as one of the most desirable destinations in America for young people to move."

https://www.macleans.ca/economy/torontos-unaffordable-why-cant-halifax-or-saskatoon-take-advantage/

[Larla77]

In terms of city and planning I don't there's any magic fits all solution. All cities have unique circumstances, locations, populations demographics, etc. That being said why not look to other similar cities to see what's worked and incorporate those solutions. Make downtown somewhere people want to live and not just where they want to get wasted. Make downtown somewhere people want to go in the daytime - affordable shopping, affordable dining. Make it clean, pedestrian friendly. And have good integrated public transit! Metrobus isn't cutting it.

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by 613_YYT

I mostly disagree that St. John's is so unique. I think that is an excuse that we use so we don't have to face the facts that St. John's isn't that appealing. It needs change to attract people from outside the province to the city.

There are few areas that truly shaped by geography. The Battery comes to mind. The rest of the city has big hills but none that were prohibitive and most were developed pre-car. Leslie Street, for example.

The old part of the city, like most cities, has a grid layout. Just look at a map. Inside of Empire Ave is a grid. There are a few off angles or jogs due to reducing the grade or issues finding property owners after the 1892 fire when streets were widened as fire break and established a better grid. After the 1950's, car use increases and urban design shifted (or the other was around?) and a road hierarchy put in place. This was the idea of street-collector road-arterial. This gave us cul de sacs and wide sweeping roads which further made car use the only reasonable more of transport. And so cities all sprawled more. For St. John's, the 1950-1960's Churchill Park Development was the first suburbs and the end of the grid. Just scan maps of most cities, see where the grid end and you can usually guess the decade.

NL is different in that most other places have a population that accepts some change and are more positive. There is a very vocal opposition for most things in NL which causes this place to be very resistant to change. I don't want to call it NIMBYism because people feel like they have the right to comment on everything that is happening in the province whether it effects them or not. When it comes to something like DT St. John's then you are also fighting the nostalgic image of what someone who visits like twice a year has. Call in radio shows create echo chamber as it gives a very big platform to the few that more noise, which is usually negative. And the political culture here to give in to the loudest side as opposed to using science, logic and reason to plan policy which leads to the statue quo.

Further reading about the last point: Article on call in radio and government influence in NL: https://www.cjc-online.ca/index.php/journal/article/view/2653/2705

Right....so it's unique...

Also a few roads being in grid layout is not an example of the overall city...especially not the downtown area...which is what I was talking about.

And again I think you are downplaying the terrain in relation to how it impacts development. This place is hilly, rocky and has a bunch of wetland areas. Most cities in N.A. are not dealing with this combination when development happens...so sprawl can happen more evenly.

Ultimately my point was it is a combination of these factors that leads to uneven development in the metro area...not any one factor.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by 613_YYT

I mostly disagree that St. John's is so unique. I think that is an excuse that we use so we don't have to face the facts that St. John's isn't that appealing. It needs change to attract people from outside the province to the city.

There are few areas that truly shaped by geography. The Battery comes to mind. The rest of the city has big hills but none that were prohibitive and most were developed pre-car. Leslie Street, for example.

The old part of the city, like most cities, has a grid layout. Just look at a map. Inside of Empire Ave is a grid. There are a few off angles or jogs due to reducing the grade or issues finding property owners after the 1892 fire when streets were widened as fire break and established a better grid. After the 1950's, car use increases and urban design shifted (or the other was around?) and a road hierarchy put in place. This was the idea of street-collector road-arterial. This gave us cul de sacs and wide sweeping roads which further made car use the only reasonable more of transport. And so cities all sprawled more. For St. John's, the 1950-1960's Churchill Park Development was the first suburbs and the end of the grid. Just scan maps of most cities, see where the grid end and you can usually guess the decade.

NL is different in that most other places have a population that accepts some change and are more positive. There is a very vocal opposition for most things in NL which causes this place to be very resistant to change. I don't want to call it NIMBYism because people feel like they have the right to comment on everything that is happening in the province whether it effects them or not. When it comes to something like DT St. John's then you are also fighting the nostalgic image of what someone who visits like twice a year has. Call in radio shows create echo chamber as it gives a very big platform to the few that more noise, which is usually negative. And the political culture here to give in to the loudest side as opposed to using science, logic and reason to plan policy which leads to the statue quo.

Further reading about the last point: Article on call in radio and government influence in NL: https://www.cjc-online.ca/index.php/journal/article/view/2653/2705

It may be an unpopular opinion, but I think you're absolutely right.

[thevan]

Originally Posted by 613_YYT

I also think the problem with DT, and the city as a whole, is parking- There is too much of it. This is a result of poor regional planning, single use zoning and minimum parking requirements.

Next time you walk around DT (lolz, who walks in St. John's?) or use Maps/Street View count the number of off street parking lots, garages and alleys. To name a few:
-Portabellos
-Courtyard by Marriot
-Cochrane St between Duckworth and Water
-Duckworth at King St
-Duckworth at Holloway St
-Prescott at Duckworth
-Prescott at Gower/Bluedrop building
-Garage at 330 Duckworth,
-3 lots near Duckworth and Bates Hill
-Water St at Soloman's Lane
-Water Street at the Courthouse
-Alleys behind 280 Duckworth, Basho, BMO at McBrides Hill.
-All of Harbour Drive
These make up a lot of the downtown area and are usually not full.

Parking lots are not nice places for people and kill the streetscape. They have little economic value, like a business, or add to the area, like a park or a house. They cost a lot to maintain and drive up rent. They also kill walkability by spreading buildings further apart and letting cars cross the sidewalk at dips and ramps even though sidewalks are suppose to be a pedestrians safe space. They are also ugly and uninspiring.

Now think about how many spaces are for people. There is almost no public space outside of the War Memorial/Harbourside Park area. Not surprisingly, this is usually the place you can find people hanging out. There is nothing near the main shopping and commercial area. There are maybe a 6 benches and almost no green space throughout the rest of DT. The sidewalks are even too narrow for two couples to pass each other comfortably. It's like we don't want people to stay DT.

We have a sprawling region were we prioritize car use and funnel people in and out of areas a quickly as possible. That's great for the big box store next to a highway. But that doesn't make a very nice city. A cool, hip and vibrant city has areas where people want to hangout and live. This promotes people spending money or workers sharing ideas. Innovation happens and attracts businesses. There is room for public events and that will attract more locals and tourists and more businesses. We need to let people transform areas.

Downtown St. John's isn't particularly nice and is built for the cars to get you out of there at 5 pm so it's no surprise that the area can't compete with offices in the suburbs that also have little to offer other than just office space.

So what should be done?
-Decrease parking requirements. This will help reduce sprawl and car culture across the city. Land use will be more efficient especially downtown. Most booming cities have already done this.
-Rezone surface lots to mixed use to allow infill development. Allow storefronts with residential and cheaper Class B or C office space above to promote small businesses.
-City buys back certain lots and turn into a plaza or park. They also rent space for kiosks or food trucks and host events. The lot a Soloman's Lane on Water St would ideal for this. The movie nights at this site is very popular and shows there is demand for more public space.
-Increase onstreet parking fees to push all full day parkers to the underused garages or other forms of transportation. Leave onstreet spots for people who need it for short visits. Extra revenue should be put back into making the area better like transit, greenery or public wifi.
-Add a levy for buildings that want to keep offstreet lots. Use that money in the area.
-Add benches and planters. Plant trees and install fountains or other public monuments. Give people places to mingle. Then you have people who will probably buy an extra coffee or visit one more store. Or maybe bring a guitar and entertain people. Plants also make us feel good and has been proven to have economic benefits.
-Redesign Duckworth and Water streets to prioritize active transportation and public transit so there will be less cars in the area and less demand for parking. Make the streets so people think they can cross where ever they want when a store catches their eye. There are enough car roads in the area, you can spend an extra few minutes and go around or slowly through the area.
-City stops allowing more Class A office space to be built when the existing stock can't be filled. This also counts for west end of downtown. More highrises aren't the answer. They look nicel in photos but vertical sprawl can also happen. Great cities are often made of low rise-high density areas. ie Copenhagen, Paris, Amsterdam, San Francisco.
-Converting some office space into housing stock is the great idea if the area was made more appealing for residents.

"A good city is like a good party - people stay longer than really necessary, because they are enjoying themselves." - Jan Gehl

TL: DR
Downtown St. John's has too much parking and needs to be made nicer for people to attract residents and businesses.

Originally Posted by Larla77

I would highly suggest that anyone interested in the history of downtown development particularly in the 70s, 80s and early 90s to check out this paper: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk1/tape4/PQDD_0018/MQ54967.pdf. I originally found it on this site and its a fascinating read. Talks about how all these parking lots downtown came to be, companies buying up real estate in the early 70s when the oil speculation started, Atlantic Place, etc. Of particular note is the construction of the Duffett Building (where TD Bank is today). Originally that building was supposed to have 2 additional floors for parking but the council of the day had the size of the building decreased to what it is now due to public pressure over the size of the building (it was the first of the larger buildings downtown). The building was approved on the condition that parking be provided at ancillary sites. So the owners bought up buildings close by and tore them down for parking. It was a short sighted decision.

I think any look at downtown development and where we see the future going has to start by looking at how we got where we are today. Much of the downtown fascades have already been lost (the Scotia Building was originally going to keep the Ayres fascade). An area should be designated for heritage/entertainment and another area for a business district. Lots of other cities have those distinctions. Water Street should be one way from Prescott Street to the Convention Centre. Make it somewhere people (other than downtown hipsters) actually want to be.

Some great ideas here! And thanks for the PDF.

May I ask if either of you forwarded it onto Council? I'd say there's more than enough of us on here to have a voice.

[jeddy1989]

Improving downtown a focus at Monday evening council meeting

There’s been concern shown for downtown St. John’s in recent days, with the closure of beloved coffee joint Fixed and the exit of yet another large presence, ExxonMobil.

But at the Monday evening council meeting, St. John’s Mayor Danny Breen saw the glass as half full.

“There’s also a positive aspect of that, that I think we all need to make sure we understand — is we have a major international company who’s showing their confidence in the city of St. John’s and the province of Newfoundland and Labrador” by constructing their offices here, Breen said, referring to the fact ExxonMobil was relocating across the city.

Breen gave his impassioned speech focusing on the positive shortly after council voted to approve the sale of city land on Hutchings Lane, as well as air rights over Buchanan Street and in front of 430 Water Street to JAG Hotel owners eyeing an expansion.

Breen called that development — which hasn’t yet gone through the review process — a “major development.”

“I’m very excited about it, particularly if it comes to fruition the way that it’s being planned, it will have a significant impact on the downtown,” he said.

Breen also pointed to several downtown developments in the works, including a few that council voted on Monday evening, such as the discretionary use approval for a distillery on Harbour Drive.

He also discussed the motion that council will vote on next week to ease parking requirements for downtown developments, calling it an important way to spur development in the downtown.

“There’s things that are challenging in the downtown and I accept and I understand completely that there’s challenges there. There’s a lot of positive things happening there as well, and what we need to do is we need to put our plan in place to work towards making sure that the downtown prospers,” he said.

“Amidst the negativity, I just want to point out there’s a lot of positive things happening downtown and there’s a lot of things that we can achieve downtown if we work together.



Pedestrian-only

During the go-round at Monday evening’s council meeting, Coun. Maggie Burton suggested the downtown advisory committee consider implementing times during which parts of the downtown could be pedestrian-only, meaning some sections could be closed to vehicle traffic.

Burton suggested it as a way to encourage more foot traffic in the downtown, insinuating this will have a positive impact for businesses.

Coun. Debbie Hanlon is a representative on that committee, and told reporters after the council meeting that members of the public brought that same idea to the committee a couple of months ago.

Hanlon said the committee will soon bring related suggestions to council.

She said the committee has “awesome things in the works” in terms of pedestrian-only times downtown and that more details will be forthcoming, likely within the next few weeks.

https://www.thetelegram.com/news/local/a...ntown-st-johns-mayor-danny-breen-283613/



^^ A little look at a temporary pedestrian only Water Street in the 60s

[jjavman]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

https://www.thetelegram.com/news/local/a...ntown-st-johns-mayor-danny-breen-283613/



^^ A little look at a temporary pedestrian only Water Street in the 60s

I remember this, and thought it was great. I think it happened ahead of it's time in the culture that was St. John's back then, and would be more popular now.

I think of Sparks Street Mall in Ottawa as an example or Old Montréal. Can you imagine if Water Street was restored to the original cobblestones (pedestrian only), with nice green oasis' every block?

[Marty_Mcfly]

Imagine if there were still trees on Water Street.

[rob_fmd]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/downtown-businesses-on-the-horizon-1.5017751

Hats off to whoever called the Dooleys becoming a Dollarama.

[J_Murphy]

Originally Posted by rob_fmd

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/downtown-businesses-on-the-horizon-1.5017751

Hats off to whoever called the Dooleys becoming a Dollarama.

Oh my, this upsets me for some reason. Perhaps because this will be the 7th dollarama in St. John's.