Calgary International Airport II

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

WS summer changes:

DEN - 4x Weekly (Overall decrease from S18) Op days: 2457
IAH - Increased to 13x Weekly (I don't remember if they had Sat flights last year)
YQB - 4x Weekly, now timed for transborder connections
YYZ - 789 Service extended into summer months (WS 658/651)
BNA - 3x Weekly (Overall decrease from S18, 5x weekly)

WS80/81 no longer shows as a thru flight, only YHZ-CDG-YHZ.

There's probably more, but I'll check again later.

Looks like WS is adding AUS and PDX too.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Acey

AUS at 3x weekly is whatever, that'll be fine. I don't see how mainline daily PDX would work. God forbid... Encore?! AC did just cut their 2nd daily PDX but to jump in there daily is not typical WS. Seeking Europe cnx, possibly.

Looks like AUS 2 weekly and PDX encore.

From a post on airliners.net sourced from Flightview

Begins May 2nd (2x weekly; Sunday/Thursday)
YYC-AUS: 10:00 AM - 2:43 PM (737-700)
AUS-YYC: 3:35 PM - 6:31 PM (737-700)

Begins April 29th: (7x weekly; Daily)
YYC-PDX: 10:30 AM - 11:17 AM (Q400)
PDX-YYC: 12:10 PM - 2:57 PM (Q400)

[YYCFlier]

I can only guess these are routes they are adding to try to connect US passengers to Europe? PDX is kind of a no-brainer given the distance (and DL covers SEA for them), but AUS is random. Then again I thought BNE was random too.

[thenoflyzone]

YYC-AUS?

O&D was less than 12,000 in 2016.

Can someone tell me if there is a dart board somewhere in WS's route planning department? AUS-YVR is over twice as large.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

YYC-AUS?

O&D was less than 12,000 in 2016.

Can someone tell me if there is a dart board somewhere in WS's route planning department? AUS-YVR is over twice as large.

Put YYC-AUS into the same bucket as YOW-SJC during the dotcom boom. Here's my story:

A tiny Oilfield Services company I'm associated with is currently sending 30-50 people into the Barnett, Permian, and Eagle Ford oil basin areas. There are probably 50-100 other Oilfield Service companies doing the same thing. Currently this market is FIFO (Fly-In, Fly-Out) connecting through SLC, DEN, IAH, DFW with final destination of Midland, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso. Alternately, the FIFO workers are flying into either IAH or DFW and driving the extra distance. This market has grown exponentially in the last 9 months. Even better for the airlines, most are booking flights within 10 days of travel to max out yield.

AUS being a smaller airport and closer to each of the oil basin's is a preferred destination.

Finally, this also explains why DL is putting mainline A319s onto YYC-SLC.

[Alexcaban]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

YYC-AUS?

O&D was less than 12,000 in 2016.

Can someone tell me if there is a dart board somewhere in WS's route planning department? AUS-YVR is over twice as large.

Were talking about the same airline that thinks YHM-YYC is a priority over YOW/YUL-FLL.

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by Alexcaban

Were talking about the same airline that thinks YHM-YYC is a priority over YOW/YUL-FLL.

YUL is an outstation for WS, YYC is their biggest hub (for one).

I think WS tried those sun routes in Montreal and didn't get the yields. Easterners tend to forget the largest hub in WS's network is YYC, and YUL, despite being larger population wise, gets very little service. There is another airline for that though, based in YUL

[YYCFlier]

Not surprisingly, AUS and PDX are summer seasonal only.

[Ania]

Originally Posted by Bokimon

Routes USA: ..It would also be nice if there are some US arrivals in the morning hrs, the first flights always land around 1130-noon, so if there is a market out there for O/D-Connection within our country or onwards Int'l connection incl. sun destinations, It would be a good boost. In a 1000km radius YYC would be a crowning jewel compared to the likes of SEA and PDX not to mention all the congestion and delays a busy and crammed airport will have. If some arrangements can be done to make it easy enough for Americans living close to the AB border to hop on an hr flight to YYC, bypass customs and just transit over within the terminal to a connecting canadian partner airline to head to Mexico or someplace, I think potentially the time savings may rival or improve upon the hassles of dealing with a ultra busy airport that is becoming more and more strained in infrastructure. Maybe a bit of payback for all the Canadians being lured to go across the border to use secondary airports on ULCCs..

Spokane next please! Cma of 720k. Calgary is the most direct route to Europe.

Washington and Oregon have apx 15 summer seasonal euro flights combined. 1 direct Euro flight for every apx 750k inhabitants of the region ~ or as I see it, 3-4 q400s connecting in YYC.

[Ania]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

YYC-AUS?

O&D was less than 12,000 in 2016.

Can someone tell me if there is a dart board somewhere in WS's route planning department? AUS-YVR is over twice as large.

AC is focusing YVR and YUL, WS on YYC. Both are a little loose on YYZ these days, unfortunate since YYZ is formidably well placed on the world and cross border maps.

[Dirt_Devil]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

WS summer changes:
YQB - 4x Weekly, now timed for transborder connections

Glad to see YYC-YQB back. Hopefully this one becomes daily and year round...

[BlaineN]

Originally Posted by Ania

Spokane next please! Cma of 720k. Calgary is the most direct route to Europe.

Washington and Oregon have apx 15 summer seasonal euro flights combined. 1 direct Euro flight for every apx 750k inhabitants of the region ~ or as I see it, 3-4 q400s connecting in YYC.

Makes no sense at all. People from Spokane can get more frequent flights to SEA and get the same or better connections. In fact they can even drive to SEA. That and the CSA pop of 720K is a massively spread out area, and isn't really representative of the area.

[suburbia]

Think I saw an Antonov at the airport today parked on the western edge just off Deerfoot trail. Those slumping wings and massive tail are almost unmistakable. Tail have a blue streak running through it diagonally. Not certain though - can anyone confirm?

[EDIT]

Confirmed:
https://twitter.com/CJets_Aviation/status/1088512813104939008

https://twitter.com/FlyYYC/status/1088541491574726657

Good eye, the Antonov is making a short stop in #yyc and heading southeast to Wyoming. The An-124 can accommodate 150 tonnes of cargo, with an enormous maximum takeoff weight of more than 400,000 kilograms. They are always exciting sightings — especially for aviation enthusiasts.

[casper]

Originally Posted by BlaineN

Makes no sense at all. People from Spokane can get more frequent flights to SEA and get the same or better connections. In fact they can even drive to SEA. That and the CSA pop of 720K is a massively spread out area, and isn't really representative of the area.

Air Canada operates flights from Calgary to Spokane (on a small prop, don't remember which one). The fact they dropped that route is a good indication of what the outcome would be in WestJet tried.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Think I saw an Antonov at the airport today parked on the western edge just off Deerfoot trail. Those slumping wings and massive tail are almost unmistakable. Tail have a blue streak running through it diagonally. Not certain though - can anyone confirm?

[EDIT]

Confirmed:
https://twitter.com/CJets_Aviation/status/1088512813104939008

https://twitter.com/FlyYYC/status/1088541491574726657

Been sitting on Apron 9 for about a week.

[Cage]

below is cross posted from Canadian Aviation Thread. For those that don't venture into that thread. This post describes some of the behind the scenes reason for why WS extended the YYC-YYZ 789 run.

####

There is a fairly large market of YYC based frequent flyers that want to try the new WestJet lie-flat product but not spend the 4-5k for a roundtrip to LGW/DUB/CDG. However a for $700 one can try the new premium product to/from YYZ.

Doing YYC-YYZ turns beyond the first 90 days doesn't help with pilot training. However, flight attendant service training is hugely important for WS move into Premium market.

The biggest in-flight service lesson learned from the 763 introduction was how different the guests/passengers were from any other route or city launch. It was a painful first year of operations for FAs serving WestJet Plus on the 763. Initial thoughts that FA's could treat the service standard like an very long mainline run were quickly dashed. The standard FA response to most issues is to point out the flight is a short 2-4 hours flying time. This doesn't work for 9 hour TransAt overnight trip.

It takes 5 days of basic training to get through the safety aspects. Most international premium service airlines put their FA's through one month of service training. The new FA is then closely watched for the first 3-6 months after that and they have 15+ other FAs to ask questions. Comparatively WestJet FAs are all brand new, so it drinking from the fire hose until they find their own path to service excellence.

It seems like a small thing, but appropriately plating the food is something brand new for WestJet. Appropriate food service delivery was not well handled in the past on TransAt runs to/from LGW.

Example: normal standards are pre food drink with wine primarily offered to each J class customer. Plate the food in the galley and assemble the full tray. Deliver the trays no more than 2 at a time. Ask each person if they want a refill of the wine. Wash, rinse repeat for each 2 customers.

The WestJet way is to hand out all the food followed by the drink cart. This means the first customer to get their food must wait 10-20 minutes until the last person has food in order to get wine with their meal. This ruins the customer experience the passenger has paid $5k for the privilege.

Running 3.75 hour runs YYC-YYZ lets the FAs interact with this new type of customers with very different expectations.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by casper

Air Canada operates flights from Calgary to Spokane (on a small prop, don't remember which one). The fact they dropped that route is a good indication of what the outcome would be in WestJet tried.

Post Open Skies agreement in the 1990s, AC/AirBC tried operating YYC-GEG with a dash 8-100 with 37 seats. The service last only a short while before being pulled.

Back in the 90s, the AC regionals had their own scheduling and marketing departments. Air BC was the most independent operation of the regionals. It was Air BC that decided to start YYC-GEG over the objections of the AC scheduling department. Once the pax stats came back for the route, "Montreal" dumped all over the plan and the route was cut by the Air BC CEO.

[Ania]

Originally Posted by BlaineN

Makes no sense at all. People from Spokane can get more frequent flights to SEA and get the same or better connections. In fact they can even drive to SEA. That and the CSA pop of 720K is a massively spread out area, and isn't really representative of the area.

Blaine! I respect your opinion. 'No sense at all' comment shows lacks of openess--unless, say, you actually are a know-it-all. WS is starting direct Austin service despite Toronto and Vancouver having a lot more OD. Austin doesn't currently have enough YYC OD to fill up the 2 weekly flights. These would be valid arguments to explain why the Calgary flight might not work, doesn't mean it will not. 'I don't think it would work' along with your arguments might've been a better comment giving a little more credibility rather than the absolute closed-eye 'no sense at all'.
Just trying to have constructive conversation :p

As for your arguments:

Yep Spokane is well serviced by DL by SEA, and DL and WS are buddies now. If WS is allowed to go to PDX I feel that DL wouldn't be overly frustrated WS does GEG.

Spokane is a 4h30min drive, not sure your average drives the distance if they have the choice (my argument here is, I don't think your average Montrealer drives to Toronto first when flying Copenhagen, or any Toronto non-stop Montreal doesn't have.)

As for connections: Ha! That's relative. WS is expanding, In the long term up to 20 Dreamliners, and who knows what next. SEA will likely always beat with anything going Pacific...but European flying? Well Vancouver is already up there with Seattle, if WS is serious about hubbing YYC and do everything right, I would absolutely be surprised if Calgary didn't have more service, and by extension better pricing, and y'know, the best option for the Spokane crowd. As for the Carribean, YYC is already the better option. YYC does also get any Canadian destinations not in BC (it all adds up when you are filling a prop).

720k people of Spokane: The airport serves, and has a larger catchment area, than the CSA.

Honest truth: I know its a stretch, but I think its worth the talk in hopes pleasant surprises can be found.

[Ania]

Originally Posted by Acey

This is some YEG-type reasoning right here.

YEG is cursed by Geography :/

[YYCFlier]

It boggles the mind how much YYZ/YUL/YVR fliers can't get past YYC as a hub. I rather doubt AUS was intended completely for OD. AC has successfully loaded up planes by getting Americans to transfer thru Canada. The point of a hub is not for O&D (that's point to point) but rather to route traffic thru the network. WS has to do the same if they want to keep expanding YYC and it would appear that is the plan.