Highways in Canada

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Not necessarily. But one slow driver in front of you doing less than 80 kph can piss you right off.

Sure, but night construction on the 401 can piss you right off too.

Highway 7 has a decent amount of passing lanes (though there could be more), and much of the highway carries little enough traffic that you can still safely overtake in the oncoming lane.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Sure, but night construction on the 401 can piss you right off too.

Highway 7 has a decent amount of passing lanes (though there could be more), and much of the highway carries little enough traffic that you can still safely overtake in the oncoming lane.

Only heading east though. Heading west, there aren’t that many (passing lanes). IMO, the segment with the lowest AADT (hence the nicest drive) is between Madoc and Sharbot Lake. From Sharbot Lake east, it gets curves and rocky which eliminates any possibility of safe passing. Once you get to Perth, it’s just your any other exurban route (read: very high AADT).

Norwood, Havelock and Marmora And Lakes are the stressful spots on Highway 7 too...

[sonysnob]

Stressful spots? Norwood, Havlock and Marmora have one single traffic signal each.

The only somewhat annoying town on Highway 7 is Perth. And that's only because the three signalized intersections in town don't have left turn lanes meaning traffic is mixed between the two through lanes.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Stressful spots? Norwood, Havlock and Marmora have one single traffic signal each.

The only somewhat annoying town on Highway 7 is Perth. And that's only because the three signalized intersections in town don't have left turn lanes meaning traffic is mixed between the two through lanes.

That’s true.
I guess the big problem with 7 from peterborough to Marmora is the mines nearby. They do contribute to a non-trivial amount of truck traffic on that highway. In towns, when the lights turn green, it takes those giant vehicles forever to get up to speed...

[sonysnob]

There is the Nephton Mine is located north of Havelock, that's why the railway still goes that far. Most of the other mines in the area closed a while ago. There used to be a lot of mining activity in the Marmora area. The Deloro site, just east of Marmora, is a former mine and had a former associated metal refining facility. That area had a pretty significant environmental rehabilitation project that was ongoing for several years, but most of that work is done now too.

I agree though, Highway 7 is popular with commercial truck traffic, particularly at night.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

There is the Nephton Mine is located north of Havelock, that's why the railway still goes that far. Most of the other mines in the area closed a while ago. There used to be a lot of mining activity in the Marmora area. The Deloro site, just east of Marmora, is a former mine and had a former associated metal refining facility. That area had a pretty significant environmental rehabilitation project that was ongoing for several years, but most of that work is done now too.

I agree though, Highway 7 is popular with commercial truck traffic, particularly at night.

At night?! I'd think I get to have the whole highway to myself at that time. At least that's what happened when I went down Highway 17 from North Bay to Ottawa. When I passed Renfrew at 1:30 am, the difference was day and night.

Is it because 401 becomes unreliable with all the constructions at that time?

[sonysnob]

I generally take Highway 7 between the GTA and the Ottawa area about a half dozen times per year or so. Since I live in the GTA, I generally find myself coming back westbound at night, and in my experience I almost always encounter westbound commercial truck traffic along the route. Exactly why they use highway 7 is obviously beyond me, it could be a combination of origin and destination, or it might just be that the 50km shorter trip at a slightly slower speed means that their truck has to burn less fuel on the trip between Ottawa and the GTA for a comparable travel time. Particularly at night, one doesn't have to stop at too many traffic signals.

Though, I admit, once every two months or so isn't that regular of a travel schedule, so it's possible that my experiences aren't exactly typical of the highway either.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Highway signage should prioritize the most direct routes, not necessarily the most high speed ones.

I don't think the Highway 7 control city thing is a problem unto itself, but in combination with the poor control city signage for the 416/401 route, one wonders why the MTO made the decisions it did.

Most traffic will use the 416/401 route to Toronto (I did when I lived in Ottawa), so why not sign it appropriately?

It is needlessly confusing for those from out of province/country.

[sonysnob]

^ I don't think it would be inherently wrong to sign Toronto on the 416/401 routing from Ottawa, I just don't think it's inherently wrong to sign Toronto via Highway 7 as it has been.

The current signage in Ottawa signs the 416 South to the 401, and then signs Toronto via Highway 7. That doesn't seem like an awful arrangement to me. Even the most geographically impaired traveler should know what the 401 is, and that its the road that Toronto is on. So directions to the 401 are already conveyed to motorists traveling the 417. Then additionally, Toronto is signed via the most direct highway from Ottawa.

There are certainly other ways the highways could be signed, but the argument that the current signing arrangement is somehow "wrong" or "dumb" is baseless. And that's what I took issue with.

[MonctonRad]

Why not put up a big fat sign on the 417 westbound saying "Toronto via Rte 7 this-a-way, Toronto via 416/401 that-a-way"

[wave46]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

The current signage in Ottawa signs the 416 South to the 401, and then signs Toronto via Highway 7. That doesn't seem like an awful arrangement to me. Even the most geographically impaired traveler should know what the 401 is, and that its the road that Toronto is on. So directions to the 401 are already conveyed to motorists traveling the 417. Then additionally, Toronto is signed via the most direct highway from Ottawa.

For most locals, it is fine. I know the 401 leads to Toronto, Kingston and points beyond.

I could see those who are uh, more geographically challenged or from out-of-province/country having a tough time. GPS has reduced this problem, I'll admit.

Poor signage mildly annoys me though - I've seen too many buildings and roads and whatnot have poor direction-finding signage.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by wave46

I could see those who are uh, more geographically challenged or from out-of-province/country having a tough time. GPS has reduced this problem, I'll admit.

Is this why Montreal has highway signage for Toronto and New York?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Why not put up a big fat sign on the 417 westbound saying "Toronto via Rte 7 this-a-way, Toronto via 416/401 that-a-way"

I guess that would work, but one would typically direct most traffic via the highest capacity route, which would be the 416.

Think of using the new Route 2 in New Brunswick versus the old highway. Both work for long-distance travel, but one's better for people and trucks who want to get from point A to point B.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Is this why Montreal has highway signage for Toronto and New York?

I think that's where this discussion started.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I’ll try listing control cities for some of Ontario’s major highways now.

We tend to use St. John's, Clarenville, Gander, Grand Falls-Windsor, Deer Lake, Corner Brook, and Channel-Port aux Basques as the main markers. Most signs will just show the nearest 2-3 and include some nearby communities (for example, signs closer to Whitbourne, between St. John's and Clarenville, will always include Whitbourne). There are signs at either end of the island that give the full 900-km distance from St. John's to Channel-Port aux Basques.

Piggy with TCH sign for central Nfld towns by Alasdair Veitch, on Flickr

On secondary highways, they generally focus on the community at the tip of that peninsula - so St. Anthony for the Viking Trail, Bonavista for the Discovery Trail, Burin for the Heritage Run, etc.

The secondary highways all have normal official signage:

Welcome to the Heritage Run Sign by samn8r14, on Flickr

But they also usually have their own marketing. For example, again The Heritage Run has brown signs with abstract phrases that appear a few minutes before some sort of attraction. For example this one:



...is just before a look-out over a glacier-carved landscape that's the traditional habitat of caribou (you may even see a few - I saw two a couple of years ago).

[sonysnob]

Just as an aside, highway signage is more of a contentious issue then one might realize. I am quite good friends with a few people who work for the MTO in Ontario (I went to college for civil engineering), and I've had some good discussions about signage with them over the years.

I am quite good friends with the engineer who put up the sign for "Cochrane, Thunder Bay, and Rainy River" on Highway 11 just north of Barrie. The erection of that sign caused quite a stir, and even garnered a television news story from CTV News in Barrie. Do you have any idea how many letters the MTO got because of that sign? It's actually kind of crazy to think about...

The same engineer wanted to clean up the control cities at two Highway 12 interchanges along the 400. Orillia is still signed via Simcoe Road 16 (the downloaded alignment of Highway 12) for example. He received blowback from MTO's management when he went to make changes to the highway signage because apparently municipalities get upset when the MTO changes highway signs directing to them (even apparently if it is to improve the signage).

[wave46]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Just as an aside, highway signage is more of a contentious issue then one might realize. I am quite good friends with a few people who work for the MTO in Ontario (I went to college for civil engineering), and I've had some good discussions about signage with them over the years.

I am quite good friends with the engineer who put up the sign for "Cochrane, Thunder Bay, and Rainy River" on Highway 11 just north of Barrie. The erection of that sign caused quite a stir, and even garnered a television news story from CTV News in Barrie. Do you have any idea how many letters the MTO got because of that sign? It's actually kind of crazy to think about...

The same engineer wanted to clean up the control cities at two Highway 12 interchanges along the 400. Orillia is still signed via Simcoe Road 16 (the downloaded alignment of Highway 12) for example. He received blowback from MTO's management when he went to make changes to the highway signage because apparently municipalities get upset when the MTO changes highway signs directing to them (even apparently if it is to improve the signage).

I admit I don't see the other side of the discussion too often, so I'm quite ignorant on the considerations the MTO has to take into account.

I'm surprised that the distance sign to Thunder Bay/Rainy River on Highway 11 aroused so much interest. I always thought it was a neat thing to look at when I drive by and it reminds me how big Ontario is, but I've never had any inkling to write the MTO about it in any fashion.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by wave46

I admit I don't see the other side of the discussion too often, so I'm quite ignorant on the considerations the MTO has to take into account.

I'm surprised that the distance sign to Thunder Bay/Rainy River on Highway 11 aroused so much interest. I always thought it was a neat thing to look at when I drive by and it reminds me how big Ontario is, but I've never had any inkling to write the MTO about it in any fashion.

On that note, I wonder how people will react if they see a sign on the 417 that says,
Thunder Bay (via 17) 1606 km
Kenora (via 17) 2076 km
Winnipeg (M.B.) (via 17) 2289 km



I bet their eyeballs will drop when they see a 4-digit number that begins with 2.

But yea the first time I drove towards Orillia, I saw that sign and found it nice that the sign got the last big city and the last town on the 11 covered.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I wonder how people will react if they see a sign on the 417 that says,
Thunder Bay (via 17) 1632 km
Kenora (via 17) 2086 km
Winnipeg (M.B.) (via 17) 2394 km



I bet their eyeballs will drop when they see a 4-digit number that begins with 2.

I suspect someone will react by trying to steal it.

This has happened on Interstate 40 in Barstow, California, where a sign that says "Wilmington, NC 2554mi." has been stolen repeatedly.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Just as an aside, highway signage is more of a contentious issue then one might realize.

Every region has its issues.

We recently went through a constitutional crisis over this:

Welcome to the Big Land by Robert Schaub, on Flickr

The Provincial Government denied requests to include the Labrador flag at border crosses with Quebec. This caused protests nearing on riots throughout Labrador - government buildings occupied, the works. Eventually, the Provincial Government caved. So now Labrador border crossings have four flags - Canada, Newfoundland and Labrador provincial flag, Union flag, and the Labrador tricolour.

This irritates Newfoundlanders because the island's tricolour (as in my avatar) is not used officially except where it forms part of a municipality's flag. Labrador assumes we feel represented by the provincial flag, but it's just as unnatural and modern to us as it is to them. (It's just a mindset there, CBC gets hate mail if the province's evening news hour starts with a story from St. John's instead of Black Tickle, Labrador; and yes, I'm VERY aware Labrador is to Newfoundland as Newfoundland is to Canada).

So now that they've gotten that, people with my political views want the tricolour officially displayed at Channel-Port aux Basques and Argentia, the main ferry entrances to Newfoundland. St. John's is already covered, there's thousands displayed throughout the city, including at the Narrows and a HUGE one on top of the Southside Hills overlooking the city...

Meanwhile, anyone from anywhere else in Canada will come here and not even notice. And, even if they did, probably not know what the Newfoundland tricolour and Labrador tricolour even are.