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  #361  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 4:31 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Well, they aren't really farmer's stalls, but yes.
Having the vendors outside makes walking the streets much more enjoyable. It feels European. I, personally, wouldn't walk the market area as much if all those vendors were indoors.
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  #362  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 9:28 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by bikegypsy View Post
Isn't the market building full of tenants?
I assume the leases expire at some point. In my view if you're going to market it as a "market" filling the market building with pretty generic fast food joints makes little sense.
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  #363  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 9:31 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Having the vendors outside makes walking the streets much more enjoyable. It feels European. I, personally, wouldn't walk the market area as much if all those vendors were indoors.
Permanent markets in (Western) Europe are rarely outdoors. Outdoor vendors are usually in a square on certain days or for certain times a day. To me Ottawa's market looks more soviet.
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  #364  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 9:41 AM
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I would like to see Byward Market Square street permanently closed to traffic and have it covered with a canope with removable walls like Marché Jean Talon in order to have an indoor section and linking it to the Byward Market building.

Summer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnFZ_p73s90

Winter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4q9Rr24ufs
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  #365  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 1:40 PM
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FutureWickedCity FutureWickedCity is offline
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I would love to see some cool sidewalk designs, like black and white checker tile patterns. This would be a very inexpensive way to transform the whole streetscape. Also, maybe some of those hanging lights on wires between buildings to create an atmospheric effect.
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  #366  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 2:05 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by kevinbottawa View Post
Having the vendors outside makes walking the streets much more enjoyable. It feels European. I, personally, wouldn't walk the market area as much if all those vendors were indoors.
It needn't be a question of either or. Moving vendors year-round into the Market building and having seasonal street vendors are not incompatible objectives.
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  #367  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 2:47 PM
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It needn't be a question of either or. Moving vendors year-round into the Market building and having seasonal street vendors are not incompatible objectives.
If the current business model is working for the market building - as it appears to be doing - I doubt that we'll see any changes to that.
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  #368  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 4:19 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by bikegypsy View Post
If the current business model is working for the market building - as it appears to be doing - I doubt that we'll see any changes to that.
You are probably right about that, allthough one could ask "working for whom?". In fact, there was something in the press recently about trying to attract a "name" vendor of kitchenwares as a Market building tenant. Exactly the wrong way to go, imho, but they didn't put me in charge ...

Last edited by kwoldtimer; Aug 4, 2018 at 1:29 AM.
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  #369  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2018, 3:45 AM
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I recommended shutting down the Market to cars between Rideau, Sussex, St-Patrick and Dalhousie. The way to achieve this would be to bury the parking under York and/or George. Entrances to this/these new garage(s) would be on Sussex and York.

This would give us the opportunity to demolish the City parking structure on Clarence and build a modern public building that could house a number of things. Take your pick: expanded Bytown Museum, more food vendors, an info centre, a cinema, hotel...
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  #370  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2018, 1:40 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I recommended shutting down the Market to cars between Rideau, Sussex, St-Patrick and Dalhousie. The way to achieve this would be to bury the parking under York and/or George. Entrances to this/these new garage(s) would be on Sussex and York.

This would give us the opportunity to demolish the City parking structure on Clarence and build a modern public building that could house a number of things. Take your pick: expanded Bytown Museum, more food vendors, an info centre, a cinema, hotel...
I've thought this for thirty years, but caution would be needed to ensure against something unsightly on the Sussex St side - perhaps access/egress from short remnants of York, rather than directly at Sussex.
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  #371  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2018, 6:34 PM
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I've thought this for thirty years, but caution would be needed to ensure against something unsightly on the Sussex St side - perhaps access/egress from short remnants of York, rather than directly at Sussex.
A portion of York could remain as a loading zone and taxi stand, while also accommodating garage entrances and exits.
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  #372  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2018, 9:02 PM
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I've thought this for thirty years, but caution would be needed to ensure against something unsightly on the Sussex St side - perhaps access/egress from short remnants of York, rather than directly at Sussex.
Ya, we could keep the streets on either side of the "Ottawa" sign plaza as entrance/exit.
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  #373  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2018, 6:34 PM
m0nkyman m0nkyman is offline
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The perennial attempt to replicate the success of Sparks St in the desolate and unpopular Byward Market.

The last thing we need to do is to shut down traffic around the market. Parking, sure, but not the traffic. Lots of short stay parking to load the car after shopping. And vehicular traffic means safety for a lot of pedestrians as the eyes on the street are mobile, and anywhere. Makes it a lot less spooky at night. Ask any woman whether they choose to walk down the street most likely to have cars on it at night.

A better solution is woonerfs, traffic calming measures, creating cues that this is a pedestrian realm that cars are allowed to drive through, not roads that the pedestrians should avoid.
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  #374  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 3:06 AM
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I would start by closing William and Biward Streets between George and York on weekends and holidays using retractile bollards (commonly used across Europe). Neither street is overly useful for vehicles when the market is full of people (most vehicles are either cruising in circles or searching for street parking). The parkades are reasonably priced and there will soon be an LRT station nearby.

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Originally Posted by m0nkyman View Post
The perennial attempt to replicate the success of Sparks St in the desolate and unpopular Byward Market.
The problem with Spark Street is not that it is pedestrian only, but that it is one long street and there are long stretches of blank walls without retail along it. Both maximize the distance you need to walk. The Market is closer to a square shape and full of retail, making it faster and easier to walk from shop to shop.

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The last thing we need to do is to shut down traffic around the market. Parking, sure, but not the traffic. Lots of short stay parking to load the car after shopping. And vehicular traffic means safety for a lot of pedestrians as the eyes on the street are mobile, and anywhere. Makes it a lot less spooky at night. Ask any woman whether they choose to walk down the street most likely to have cars on it at night.
I am not suggesting all streets be closed to vehicles nor am I suggesting that they be closed 24/7. Open up the streets to vehicles when pedestrian traffic is low for convenience and security. I once read a store owner say that his best customers need to park nearby to put all of their purchases in their trunk. I somehow don't think those customers do their shopping on weekends and holidays when the streets are packed and it takes forever to drive a block.
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  #375  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2018, 9:42 AM
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Originally Posted by bikegypsy View Post
I would like to see Byward Market Square street permanently closed to traffic and have it covered with a canope with removable walls like Marché Jean Talon in order to have an indoor section and linking it to the Byward Market building.

Summer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnFZ_p73s90

Winter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4q9Rr24ufs
As much as Marché Jean Talon might suit Montréal, I don't think it would work for Ottawa and the Byward Market.

Because the Byward Market area is situated so squashed in between overwhelming other buildings in Ottawa, it needs to stay uncovered to remain as a place to be as is. This is what gives it vibrancy.

An example of how it would turn out in my opinion if the market were covered is Halifax Seaport Market and as much it's okay, that is all it is - a glorified mall. In Halifax the place to be is the harbour with an umbrella or you go inside. There is something to be said for "leave it outdoors". The Market would lose much of it's draw if you took this away.
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  #376  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2018, 10:31 AM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by TheseBoots View Post
As much as Marché Jean Talon might suit Montréal, I don't think it would work for Ottawa and the Byward Market.

Because the Byward Market area is situated so squashed in between overwhelming other buildings in Ottawa, it needs to stay uncovered to remain as a place to be as is. This is what gives it vibrancy.

An example of how it would turn out in my opinion if the market were covered is Halifax Seaport Market and as much it's okay, that is all it is - a glorified mall. In Halifax the place to be is the harbour with an umbrella or you go inside. There is something to be said for "leave it outdoors". The Market would lose much of it's draw if you took this away.
The Halifax Seaport is a huge success and it appears to me features more local products than Byward market and while much smaller is comparable to Jean Talon in this respect.
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  #377  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2018, 3:55 PM
JayBuoy JayBuoy is offline
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As part of the Byward Market public realm plan, there will be one-on-one meetings on Thursday, November 8th (9:00-21:00).

You have to register by emailing [email protected].

There's more information here: https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-engagement/projects/byward-market-public-realm-plan
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  #378  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2018, 5:20 PM
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Local architect pitches dream vision for ByWard Market with more focus on pedestrians

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: October 30, 2018




A local architect is challenging people to think about how the ByWard Market can be more pedestrian friendly through a concept he put together on his own time, simply because he loves the place.

Toon Dreessen, president of Architects DCA, unveiled his vision Tuesday at the central ByWard Market building, emphasizing the need to reduce car traffic in one of the city’s main tourist attractions.

“When it’s dominated by parking, that’s the issue, and that’s where I’m really struggling,” Dreessen said.

He proposes closing some streets as a trial, such as ByWard Market Square and William Street and part of Clarence Street, and removing the surface parking. If parking garages fill up, maybe more people will take the Confederation Line LRT to the market, he said.

Using signs pointing to where people can leave their cars can combat motorists’ fear of losing parking, Dreessen said.

City hall has its own study happening on how to improve the market’s public realm.

Jeff Darwin, the executive director of Ottawa Markets, the municipal services corporation tasked with running the ByWard and Parkdale markets, said Dreessen’s work complements the city’s study.

Darwin said Dreessen’s vision matches his own ideas for the future of the market, especially when it comes to reconciling the conflict between pedestrians and cars.

“It’s just a bad mix. We’ve got too many cars, too many people in too small of an area,” Darwin said.

Darwin said motorists want to park in their favourite spots in front of their destinations, but they have to get over that way of thinking.

“They’re still welcome here. There’s tons of parking,” Darwin said. “The experience the world over has been, more people will come if they feel safe and they can get around on foot and they’ll spend more, and there will be just more people in general.”

The prospect of removing surface parking is still a major concern for retailers in the market, according to another business leader.

Jasna Jennings, executive director of the ByWard Market BIA, has seen plenty of studies on the market in her time with the organization, but she feels there’s momentum from the community and city hall to finally make something big happen.

Her one request to anyone making proposals is to be flexible and to understand that there could be limitations. Ottawa is different in the “tulips-to-leaves” season compared with the rest of the year, she said.

“We are a winter city, so rainbows and butterflies and comparing us to other places doesn’t necessarily work here,” Jennings said.

She said there’s a pedestrian-focused potential for York Street, but not necessarily when it’s bone-chilling cold in January and people might appreciate surface parking near their destinations.

Dreessen’s vision includes something the city has considered before, but lacks the funding: removing the main parking garage off Clarence Street and constructing an underground parking facility.

Rideau-Vanier Coun. Mathieu Fleury, who recently won re-election on a pledge to beautify the market, said the incoming city council needs to make a big investment in the district, in addition to modest improvements made during the current term.

“I expect continued capital investment over four years, somewhere in the range of $8 million to $10 million a year, to sustain those improvements,” Fleury said.

Fleury said he’ll ask the next council, which takes office Dec. 1, to make the market a priority for the four-year term.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...rd-market-with-more-focus-on-pedestrians
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  #379  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2018, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
He proposes closing some streets as a trial, such as ByWard Market Square and William Street and part of Clarence Street, and removing the surface parking. If parking garages fill up, maybe more people will take the Confederation Line LRT to the market, he said.
...

Her one request to anyone making proposals is to be flexible and to understand that there could be limitations. Ottawa is different in the “tulips-to-leaves” season compared with the rest of the year, she said.

“We are a winter city, so rainbows and butterflies and comparing us to other places doesn’t necessarily work here,” Jennings said.

She said there’s a pedestrian-focused potential for York Street, but not necessarily when it’s bone-chilling cold in January and people might appreciate surface parking near their destinations.
I have said this before, but why not close "ByWard Market Square and William Street and part of Clarence Street" on peak market days (weekends and holidays from Victoria Day to Thanksgiving)? Those are the days that pedestrian use is highest. This would keep street parking close to retailers open during the winter and on quiet days during the summer.
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  #380  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2018, 6:50 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
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We have 2 city-owned garages on Clarence (281 + 461 spaces) sitting half-empty after 5 and on weekends (I have hourly occupancy data over the past 2 months). Not to mention private ones. Quite a waste if you ask me.
There is no need for on-street parking.
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