Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[nname]

Originally Posted by scryer

Speaking of which, how far along was the Evergreen extension planned as LRT before it got canned?

The Evergreen LRT have detailed design completed and was under EA. However, due to no funding, it had not entered procurement stage yet.

The Surrey LRT have preliminary design done, and I believe the detailed design is to be done by the contractor, so not EA yet? But it is under RFQ at the moment.

I guess there are not much difference?

[officedweller]

Delete - just saw that dcman posted it already.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

I also remember seeing that it was extended. The original deadline was Oct 31st before it became this November deadline. Seems like there wasn't much bidding interest?

If you're bidding a project this big, you want certainty that it's going to go ahead. All of the uncertainty surrounding the election probably scared a lot of companies off. I figure they'll get no responses or responses that are completely crazy, then say that the RFQ was flawed and use that as a way of getting to the "we need to pivot to SkyTrain" stage.

[Colin4567]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

If you're bidding a project this big, you want certainty that it's going to go ahead. All of the uncertainty surrounding the election probably scared a lot of companies off. I figure they'll get no responses or responses that are completely crazy, then say that the RFQ was flawed and use that as a way of getting to the "we need to pivot to SkyTrain" stage.

That's exactly what I was going to say. When you see polls that 90%+ in some cases want SkyTrain over LRT, and there are several opposition parties running who propose to scrap LRT, you'll back away. The company makes money on the contract, not the contract being cancelled.

[Trainguy]

Can the 105th ave project be stopped? So far they haven't ripped up the playground at the school on 150th. The whole point of 105th ave was to take traffic off of 104th ave (very bad idea). Has the contract to complete the whole road been signed? Maybe they can stop it at 144th and call it a day. No use destroying a school playground for nothing.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Which one would that be? All of Canada's proposed rapid transit lines are either already funded, still being planned, or set to cost much more than $1.7B. I don't see anywhere for the Newton-Guildford money to go except back to Surrey.

Stage 3 of Ottawa’s Confederation Line isn’t funded yet, but then again they haven’t finished Stage 1 let alone started Stage 2. They have completed the EA for one leg of Stage 3 and are working on the EA for another.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Small nitpick, but bus doors are located on the right-hand side of the vehicle; a median would require opening on the left. Would TransLink order customized vehicles, or just drive counterflow?

Remember the transit stations planned for Hwy 99?
They had a criss-cross before each centre platform - but the LRT RoW isn't wide enough for that.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Small nitpick, but bus doors are located on the right-hand side of the vehicle; a median would require opening on the left. Would TransLink order customized vehicles, or just drive counterflow?

They would likely make some modifications to the design. The typical layout for BRT in the median is to have the station platforms staggered on opposite sides of the intersection.

[Waders]

"SkyTrain is going to keep us behind another 10, 15 years while they figure it all out," said Anita Huberman of the Surrey Board of Trade, adding that there's also the question of funding.

"SkyTrain costs at least three times more to build than LRT," Huberman said.

Source

This seems misleading. The phase to extend rapid transit to Langley hasn't started yet. And where is the cost comparison between LRT and Skytrain technology coming from?

[Metro-One]

Wow, so much misinformation they spread...

If Montréal was able to propose a massive Skytrain like system in 2016 and already have pillars being constructed this month, there is no reason for us to see a 10 to 15 year delay. That is just fear mongering.

Realistically it should only push things back by a year, but knowing how slow things move in BC (Broadway Subway starting construction in 2020... really, we can’t even get that going with all funding commitments in place and years of geotechnical work already competed after over a decade of studies within the next 14 months???) 2 years is the most likely delay.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Waders

Source

This seems misleading. The phase to extend rapid transit to Langley hasn't started yet. And where is the cost comparison between LRT and Skytrain technology coming from?

Apparently, from the same place where her head is stuck. SkyTrain to Langley costs $2.9 billion, and light rail is $1.95B - that's 175% more, tops.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Waders

Source

This seems misleading. The phase to extend rapid transit to Langley hasn't started yet. And where is the cost comparison between LRT and Skytrain technology coming from?

Just ignore Anita. She is crying sour grapes. They tried to push their agenda on the people of Surrey and lost. Deal with it!!!

The Langley portion is Phase 3. They can go half way in Phase 2. They are only extending the Expo Line and not starting over. It is a matter of putting up more towers and designing stations. 10 - 15 years? Pure BS!!

[nname]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The place where her head is stuck, it seems. SkyTrain to Langley costs $2.9 billion, and light rail is $1.95B - that's 175% more, tops.

$2.9B vs $1.95B is only 49% more expensive.

175% more of $1.95B is a whopping $5.36B

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Waders

Source

This seems misleading. The phase to extend rapid transit to Langley hasn't started yet. And where is the cost comparison between LRT and Skytrain technology coming from?

SBOT is who pushed the LRT, so they're seeing their horse in this race get it's legs broken. Remember, when Surrey was pushing the LRT, they didn't speak to a single Surrey Resident who uses transit. Everything that has been done to support the LRT by the City of Surrey and the SBOT has been either a lie at worst, or misinformation.

Look at any poll on any newspaper site that mentions Skytrain and LRT, and you will see a 4:1 to 8:1 ratio of preference for Skytrain. They have to be completely oblivious for the desire of Skytrain over the LRT.

The lack of any transparency on why the previous two Mayors and City Councillors were pushing it, is ultimately why Doug got elected. All the city had to do to get the residents on their side for the LRT was put it on a ballot. Instead the Transit tax referendum became a referendum on it. And so did the Municipal election. All signs point to cancel the LRT being the right thing.

[BirchTrain]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Can the 105th ave project be stopped? So far they haven't ripped up the playground at the school on 150th. The whole point of 105th ave was to take traffic off of 104th ave (very bad idea). Has the contract to complete the whole road been signed? Maybe they can stop it at 144th and call it a day. No use destroying a school playground for nothing.

I remember one of the council candidates telling me in person that they will finish whatever road work is still in progress, and cancel the rest, if I remember correctly.

[BirchTrain]

Originally Posted by Kisai

SBOT is who pushed the LRT, so they're seeing their horse in this race get it's legs broken. Remember, when Surrey was pushing the LRT, they didn't speak to a single Surrey Resident who uses transit. Everything that has been done to support the LRT by the City of Surrey and the SBOT has been either a lie at worst, or misinformation.

The “Surrey LRT Champions” on the project’s website (https://surreylightrail.ca/Community) all seem to be either business people or developers (except for maybe Chris Friesen). No one representing Surrey residents.

[Waders]

Vancouver’s new mayor says he'll help push for new SkyTrain in Surrey

Good to hear that!

Vancouver’s newly elected mayor says he will do what he can to help his counterpart in Surrey enact SkyTrain extension plans instead of street-level LRT.

In a sit-down interview with Daily Hive Monday morning, Kennedy Stewart said that he will provide re-elected Surrey Mayor Doug McCallum with support on convincing TransLink’s Mayors’ Council to cancel the controversial Surrey Newton-Guildford (SNG) LRT line and advance the Fraser Highway project between King George Station and Langley Centre as an extension of the existing SkyTrain network.

“A big part of [McCallum’s] campaign was that he didn’t want light rail there,” said Stewart. “He wants SkyTrain, and I respect the will of the local voters, and I said I would support him in the Mayors’ Council.”

“I think that’s what local voters want and I’ll try to support him in that because I want my own SkyTrain to go to UBC, and that’s a regional project.”

He adds that there will be new negotiations with the federal and provincial governments on funding to acquire the necessary funding increase to support the higher cost of SkyTrain in Surrey and the second phase of the Millennium Line’s Broadway Extension between Arbutus Street and UBC.

“I do see the regional thing of helping local mayors accomplish what they want to accomplish, but also try to make it work regionally.”

The Mayors’ Council uses weighted voting based on population to approve or reject TransLink’s long-term strategies and investment plans. Between Stewart and McCallum, both mayors have a total of 58 weighted votes of the total of 134 weighted votes amongst all 23 municipal governments and jurisdictions in Metro Vancouver. The support from a single large municipality such as Burnaby’s new mayor, Mike Hurley, with his 12 weighted votes, would send the decision to a majority.

Meanwhile in Victoria, politics related to this project.

In Victoria, Premier John Horgan said McCallum will need to take his SkyTrain plan to other mayors in the region.

“Certainly, his first port of call … will be the Mayors’ Council, not to me, not to the prime minister. We’ll see how that goes first and foremost and then we’ll deal with that later,” Horgan said. He has previously stated: “We’re not scrapping LRT.”

Andrew Wilkinson, the leader of the B.C. Liberals, said during a lengthy back-and-forth with the premier during question period that McCallum’s election victory showed voters have rejected the NDP’s LRT transit plan.

Horgan said: “It is not an NDP plan. It is the mayors’ 10-year plan for transit in the Lower Mainland.”

Source

[xd_1771]

Seems like it passed over us but arguably the biggest news of today:

Vancouver’s new mayor says he'll help push for new SkyTrain in Surrey

Vancouver’s newly elected mayor says he will do what he can to help his counterpart in Surrey enact SkyTrain extension plans instead of street-level LRT.

In a sit-down interview with Daily Hive Monday morning, Kennedy Stewart said that he will provide re-elected Surrey Mayor Doug McCallum with support on convincing TransLink’s Mayors’ Council to cancel the controversial Surrey Newton-Guildford (SNG) LRT line and advance the Fraser Highway project between King George Station and Langley Centre as an extension of the existing SkyTrain network.

“A big part of [McCallum’s] campaign was that he didn’t want light rail there,” said Stewart. “He wants SkyTrain, and I respect the will of the local voters, and I said I would support him in the Mayors’ Council.”

“I think that’s what local voters want and I’ll try to support him in that because I want my own SkyTrain to go to UBC, and that’s a regional project.”

...

The Mayors’ Council uses weighted voting based on population to approve or reject TransLink’s long-term strategies and investment plans. Between Stewart and McCallum, both mayors have a total of 58 weighted votes of the total of 134 weighted votes amongst all 23 municipal governments and jurisdictions in Metro Vancouver. The support from a single large municipality such as Burnaby’s new mayor, Mike Hurley, with his 12 weighted votes, would send the decision to a majority.

...

Via: [DAILY HIVE VANCOUVER]

[Migrant_Coconut]

Nice to see our new leadership working with each other. Things might be looking up.

[Waders]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Nice to see our new leadership working with each other. Things might be looking up.

Or as the Globe and Mail reported, a political fight among mayors in the region.

Surrey mayor-elect Doug McCallum’s promise to push for SkyTrain threatens to upend 10-year transit plan