O-Train Line 2/4 [Stage 2 | Greenboro to Limebank/Airport] | In Service

[Horus]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I guess when they numbered the lines Stage 2 hadn't been planned yet so there was no concept of a "split" on the Line 1.

Renumbering is possible of course, although in the grand scheme of things, not really necessary.

Agreed. The system isn't that complicated, so why add complication unnecessarily? Confed Line trains go east or west. It's pretty simple. If you are going to Algonquin or Bayshore/Moodie, just be smart enough to know to a) get on the right train, presumably marked "Algonquin" or "Moodie" or b) to switch trains at Lincoln Fields.

It's not a mistake people will make twice.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The Confederation splits at Lincoln Fields. The system will be interlined during rush hour and weekdays, but a transfer will be needed for riders coming from one of the lines (not sure which one) nights and weekends when frequency is reduced to 15 minutes east of Lincoln fields (in order to maintain 15 minutes on both spurs).

So yes, I think they should have them as two lines - Confederation Line 1 to Moodie (and eventually Kanata) and maybe Kitchissippi Line 3 to Algonquin. Wish they would have reserved line 2 one of the Confederation splits.

Or maybe they'll keep the odd numbers (1 and 3) for Confederation Line branches, and the even numbers (2 and 4) for the Trillium Line branches.

[daud]

does anyone know how the trillium line will cross a)earl armstrong and b)Limebank Road under the current expansion plan?

Will these be at grade crossings or grade separated?

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by daud

does anyone know how the trillium line will cross a)earl armstrong and b)Limebank Road under the current expansion plan?

Will these be at grade crossings or grade separated?

The city has pushed for full grade seperation on the entire system so I would expect this to be no different.

The updated EA will be published in the next few days/weeks so we should know a proper answer soon.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The 12 minute service is absolutely no surprise. That is the best frequency that the line can handle reliably. The question remains whether that frequency can even be maintained with all the additional train movements on and off sidings. I get concerned that it might actually slide back to 15 minute frequency.

I think they're just managing expectations. They got burned last time when they promised an 8-minute frequency and then couldn't come close to that.

With a new signalling system that eliminates the "30 seconds to clear" issue, extended passing tracks and grade separation at the Elwood Diamond, I think they will be able to hit 10 minutes. They just don't want to commit to it.
[/QUOTE]

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by daud

does anyone know how the trillium line will cross a)earl armstrong and b)Limebank Road under the current expansion plan?

Will these be at grade crossings or grade separated?

The presentation from last fall (when the southern alignment was changed) showed a grade separation at Earl Armstrong. (See slide 10).

I don't think there will not be a grade separation at Limebank because the terminus will be east of Limebank. However there will likely be a grade separation at Bowesville.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The Confederation splits at Lincoln Fields. The system will be interlined during rush hour and weekdays, but a transfer will be needed for riders coming from one of the lines (not sure which one) nights and weekends when frequency is reduced to 15 minutes east of Lincoln fields (in order to maintain 15 minutes on both spurs).

According to the Get Ready For Rail site:

the lowest frequency service planned for the Confederation Line will be after midnight and during some weekend time-periods, when trains will be 15 minutes apart.

Presumably those some "some weekend time-periods" will be early morning and late night. If I had to guess, it would be Saturday 6am-8am and 11pm-2am, and Sunday 8am-10am and 8pm-11pm.

Also, things might change 5 year from now when State 2 West is scheduled to open, but at this point, a transfer will only be needed at the extreme off peak.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

So yes, I think they should have them as two lines - Confederation Line 1 to Moodie (and eventually Kanata) and maybe Kitchissippi Line 3 to Algonquin. Wish they would have reserved line 2 one of the Confederation splits.

I disagree. For 99% (guess) of the riders, it will be a split, not a transfer. Would you also have a differnt route number for trains that end at Lincoln Fields? If so, what would you do for the eastbound trains? Would the eastbound destination be based on where the train originates? I would have the line number stay the same and have a different suffix for the destination.

The other option would be to split the train (front train goes to Baseline and the rear train goes to Moodie), but that could be even more confusing. Then again, it would also be confusing to only occasionally have a transfer, as people might be waiting a long time for their train to Moodie, only to discover that it will never come.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

The presentation from last fall (when the southern alignment was changed) showed a grade separation at Earl Armstrong. (See slide 10).

I don't think there will not be a grade separation at Limebank because the terminus will be east of Limebank. However there will likely be a grade separation at Bowesville.

I believe that Limebank Station will be west of Limebank Road, which is the proposed location of Riverside South town centre. If you look at Page 11 of the report you will see this.


This is my memory of the discussion on this subject and it becomes reasonably close to existing and current development.


This will require additional grade separations at both Bowesville and Limebank Roads.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I believe that Limebank Station will be west of Limebank Road, which is the proposed location of Riverside South town centre. If you look at Page 11 of the report you will see this.

Sorry, you're right. It's confirmed here: https://ottawa.ca/en/news/city-secures-funding-extend-o-train-trillium-line-heart-riverside-south

An image on the councillor's website does show a Limebank grade separation:


Of course the whole Limebank extension is up in the air I think since the provincial election...

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

Sorry, you're right. It's confirmed here: https://ottawa.ca/en/news/city-secures-funding-extend-o-train-trillium-line-heart-riverside-south

An image on the councillor's website does show a Limebank grade separation:


Of course the whole Limebank extension is up in the air I think since the provincial election...

I asked about that at a recent presentation and was told that the Liberal government had allocated the money before the transition happened so the extension is good to go.

The only thing that would stop it is an explicit action by the PC government... which, who knows, could still happen but..

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by roger1818

According to the Get Ready For Rail site:



Presumably those some "some weekend time-periods" will be early morning and late night. If I had to guess, it would be Saturday 6am-8am and 11pm-2am, and Sunday 8am-10am and 8pm-11pm.

Also, things might change 5 year from now when State 2 West is scheduled to open, but at this point, a transfer will only be needed at the extreme off peak.



I disagree. For 99% (guess) of the riders, it will be a split, not a transfer. Would you also have a differnt route number for trains that end at Lincoln Fields? If so, what would you do for the eastbound trains? Would the eastbound destination be based on where the train originates? I would have the line number stay the same and have a different suffix for the destination.

The other option would be to split the train (front train goes to Baseline and the rear train goes to Moodie), but that could be even more confusing. Then again, it would also be confusing to only occasionally have a transfer, as people might be waiting a long time for their train to Moodie, only to discover that it will never come.

The counter point is nobody was confused in the olden days when the 97 and 95 were the primary transitway routes and overlapped on the central transitway, splitting at Hurdman in the east and Lincoln Fields in the west. Why is a route split with number too confusing when the vehicle has steel wheels instead of rubber, especially as the distance past the split gets longer and longer with Stage 3+

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

Sorry, you're right. It's confirmed here: https://ottawa.ca/en/news/city-secures-funding-extend-o-train-trillium-line-heart-riverside-south

An image on the councillor's website does show a Limebank grade separation:
(Image removed to reduce duplication of the image in this forum)

Of course the whole Limebank extension is up in the air I think since the provincial election...

Here is the update from the councillor's website:

http://michaelqaqish.com/riverside-south-cdp-interim-update/

The big news I see there is they eliminated the park & ride at Limebank. This is good IMO... park and rides at Riverside Station, Bowesville, and Letrim should be enough. The removal of the park & ride should allow Limebank Station to develop into a proper town centre (in theory).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

Here is the update from the councillor's website:

http://michaelqaqish.com/riverside-south-cdp-interim-update/

The big news I see there is they eliminated the park & ride at Limebank. This is good IMO... park and rides at Riverside Station, Bowesville, and Letrim should be enough. The removal of the park & ride should allow Letrim to develop into a proper town centre (in theory).

You mean that Riverside South will develop with a proper town centre.

Ultimately, the Trillium Line needs to be extended at least to the existing park n ride just east of Vimy bridge, so that people coming from Manotick and points south have easy access. I understand that won't be Phase 2.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You mean that Riverside South will develop with a proper town centre.

Ultimately, the Trillium Line needs to be extended at least to the existing park n ride just east of Vimy bridge, so that people coming from Manotick and points south have easy access. I understand that won't be Phase 2.

Yeah, thanks... Limebank (Riverside South) not Leitrim.

The position of "Main Street" in that CDP sketch doesn't look like it would allow a grade separated extension... maybe if the City changes its mind in its future and allows at-grade crossings. Who knows...

[H>T&T>P]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

Yeah, thanks... Limebank (Riverside South) not Leitrim.

The position of "Main Street" in that CDP sketch doesn't look like it would allow a grade separated extension... maybe if the City changes its mind in its future and allows at-grade crossings. Who knows...

They could and possibly should trench that section.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by H>T&T>P

They could and possibly should trench that section.

It looks like the plan already is to have it run under Limebank, so I expect that is what they will do. It would also help with noise abatement.

[OCCheetos]

According to the Stage 2 team, frequency on the Trillium Line mainline will continue to be constrained by track capacity.

There will be approximately 6 minutes between Airport trains and mainline trains at South Keys. In between trips to the airport the train will make use of the pocket track while mainline trains occupy the station.

I doubt this is surprising to anyone, but it's nice to have confirmation.

[White Pine]

I had sent an email about my idea of a pedestrian/rail bridge and also complaining about the Mayor's idea of having two stops on Carling (also suggested a few alternatives). Here's the reply I got:

"In regards to the future Rideau River pedestrian bridge nearby Carleton University, a separate pedestrian bridge is required to protect for future double tracking. Double tracking across the Rideau River is not occurring at this point in time as it would provide minimal operational benefit until the entire line is double tracked. For this reason, it does not represent good value for money to integrate a pedestrian bridge with the existing structure should the City have to eventually invest in a second rail bridge. A separate pedestrian bridge is more economically feasible, will not conflict with future double tracking, and will provide an immediate benefit to the community in terms of connectivity. This project has been bundled with the Stage 2 LRT Project to provide increased efficiency and reduced staging / mobilization costs.

At this time, relocating the existing Carling LRT Station further south to the future Ottawa Civic Campus is not within scope of the Stage 2 LRT Project. Carling Station is a major amenity that serves the growing residential community north of Carling Avenue. The station is currently well placed to serve the future needs future Ottawa Civic Hospital as it is less than 100 metres away. As plans for the hospital are confirmed, modifications to the existing intersection and/or the introduction of pedestrian facilities can be considered to connect the LRT Station and future Ottawa Civic Hospital Campus."

[roger1818]

No surprise about the pedestrian bridge. It is what we have been saying here for a while now.

With regards to a second Carling station for the Civic Hospital, I think it was a case of Watson shooting his mouth off without understanding the situation or knowing the facts. They will either keep the station where it is because it is "close enough" or they will move it further south (either under Carling or south of Carling) as a separate project. If they do move it, the construction will have minimal effect on the line and they can keep the old station open until the new one is ready to replace it.

[OCCheetos]

The addendum to the Stage 2 Trillium Line EA has been published and includes changes to Walkley Yard, the Ellwood Diamond, Bowesville station, and the Limebank extension.

https://ottawa.ca/en/residents/transport...ng-and-environmental-assessment-ea-study