O-Train Line 2/4 [Stage 2 | Greenboro to Limebank/Airport] | In Service

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

A few questions:

Any plans to have the airport branch made into a separate line? Maybe we will see Line 3 sooner rather than later. . .

No. Any new plans beyond what we know will wait for the new Transportation Master Plan and they are waiting to see the effects of LRT before starting that.

Have we heard any more about electrification?

Just that we won't be doing it any time soon.

Will the airport branch still have longer platforms?

No, short platforms. The plan is to use single Lints on the Airport Spur, since demand won't warent double lenght trains

Is the plan to use 2 Lints connected together?

On the main line yes. On the airport spur, no.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by roger1818

No. Any new plans beyond what we know will wait for the new Transportation Master Plan and they are waiting to see the effects of LRT before starting that.

The way they decide to brand the Airport service could change without needing to wait for the TMP to be updated. In some ways, it could make sense to call the Airport train "Line 3" just to differentiate it from the Trillium Line since the two won't interline.

Just that we won't be doing it any time soon.

Yeah, and to add to that: The FLIRTs will have electric drive motors and electrification will be as simple as installing pantographs and removing the power pack car.

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

A few questions:
With all that being said a 15 minute frequency isn't necessarily bad especially for an airport spur, it just requires us to admit that the Trillium Line really isn't LRT it's regional rail. The FLIRTs are certainly not LRVs . . .
What I would love to see is integrated PSDs at the Airport similar to the UP Express at Pearson that can open the doors on the train and the PSD on button press.

It's sad because the last upgrade "promised" 8 minute frequencies, and the design report for Stage 2 mentioned that it was designed with 10 minute frequencies in mind.

For now, capacity on the line will be doubled (with double-capacity trains), but I can imagine that this increase in capacity won't last long as more and more people use the line (with more stations, and better connections to other lines and routes). Hopefully these frequencies are constrained by the number of vehicles the have, and not by track capacity so that they can at least make incremental changes in the future.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

The way they decide to brand the Airport service could change without needing to wait for the TMP to be updated. In some ways, it could make sense to call the Airport train "Line 3" just to differentiate it from the Trillium Line since the two won't interline.


Yeah, and to add to that: The FLIRTs will have electric drive motors and electrification will be as simple as installing pantographs and removing the power pack car.



It's sad because the last upgrade "promised" 8 minute frequencies, and the design report for Stage 2 mentioned that it was designed with 10 minute frequencies in mind.

For now, capacity on the line will be doubled (with double-capacity trains), but I can imagine that this increase in capacity won't last long as more and more people use the line (with more stations, and better connections to other lines and routes). Hopefully these frequencies are constrained by the number of vehicles the have, and not by track capacity so that they can at least make incremental changes in the future.

I really think that the airport and bayshore branches will get the numbers 3 and 4 respectively. OC Transpo deliberately reserved those two with their route renumbering.

However nothing is really known until they announce something

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Yeah, and to add to that: The FLIRTs will have electric drive motors and electrification will be as simple as installing pantographs and removing the power pack car.

Almost all trains have electric drive motors. What makes the FLIRTs unique is that they have a removable diesel generator.

They also have the option of a hybrid configuration, keeping the power pack car in place so that it can run on an electric supply where there is power, and run on diesel where there isn't. That allows them to build the catenary in stages. For example, they might want to put it in the tunnel first.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Almost all trains have electric drive motors. What makes the FLIRTs unique is that they have a removable diesel generator.

They also have the option of a hybrid configuration, keeping the power pack car in place so that it can run on an electric supply where there is power, and run on diesel where there isn't. That allows them to build the catenary in stages. For example, they might want to put it in the tunnel first.

IIRC the LINTs we have don't have electric drive motors. (and similarly, I don't think the Talents did either.)

At the very least, they lack the distinct sound of electric motors when accelerating. (I've seen a video of a TEXRail FLIRT accelerating and it sounds just like a Toronto Rocket).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Almost all trains have electric drive motors. What makes the FLIRTs unique is that they have a removable diesel generator.

They also have the option of a hybrid configuration, keeping the power pack car in place so that it can run on an electric supply where there is power, and run on diesel where there isn't. That allows them to build the catenary in stages. For example, they might want to put it in the tunnel first.

This will never happen if they don't protect the right of way for a connection.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

IIRC the LINTs we have don't have electric drive motors. (and similarly, I don't think the Talents did either.)

You are right. According to this link, the LINT 41 has a diesel mechanical drive.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This will never happen if they don't protect the right of way for a connection.

Initially they could tap off of the Confederation Line at Bayview Later they would want redundant connections when they remove the diesel-electric power pack.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Initially they could tap off of the Confederation Line at Bayview Later they would want redundant connections when they remove the diesel-electric power pack.

The pump building could be re-purposed into a TPSS building for electrification in that area.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Isn't the Confederation Line interlining to Bayshore? In that case I don't see the logic in having a separate Line Number

Most of the time, yes. At ultra low peak, when the trains are running at 15 minute frequencies, they will have people transfer at Lincoln Field to going to Moodie. That seems hardly worth creating a new line number for though.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Most of the time, yes. At ultra low peak, when the trains are running at 15 minute frequencies, they will have people transfer at Lincoln Field to going to Moodie. That seems hardly worth creating a new line number for though.

The line number in Ottawa is a wayfinding convienience. It's more compact and easier for a rider to see the number 3 rather then the vancouver model "this train to yvr airport, this train to richmond-brighouse", especially when you then have to repeat it in French. There's no cost except maybe changing some signs, which they'd have to do anyway.

In fact, if they do this, expect to see a empty circle number downtown, and a filled circle past Lincoln Fields like they do with bus signs to show that service is not there at all times.

Anyway it's still all speculation at this point.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

The line number in Ottawa is a wayfinding convienience. It's more compact and easier for a rider to see the number 3 rather then the vancouver model "this train to yvr airport, this train to richmond-brighouse", especially when you then have to repeat it in French. There's no cost except maybe changing some signs, which they'd have to do anyway.

In fact, if they do this, expect to see a empty circle number downtown, and a filled circle past Lincoln Fields like they do with bus signs to show that service is not there at all times.

Anyway it's still all speculation at this point.

I agree, but for a split, a simple 1a and 1b would be better as it would be clearer for those going to stations before the split. You could even make it directional so that there is a separate letter for eastbound trains as well. That is where I wish they had gone with letters instead of numbers for the LRT lines and numbers for the destination suffix. With a number suffix, you could have, for example, odd numbers for west and north bound trains and even numbers for east and south bound trains (similar the the RER in Paris). For the Confederation Line, the Route/Destination numbers could be as follows:

A1 - Baseline
A2 - Trim Rd
A3 - Moodie Dr.
A4 - Place D'Orleans
A5 - Lincoln Fields
A6 - Blair Rd.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I agree, but for a split, a simple 1a and 1b would be better as it would be clearer for those going to stations before the split. You could even make it directional so that there is a separate letter for eastbound trains as well. That is where I wish they had gone with letters instead of numbers for the LRT lines and numbers for the destination suffix. With a number suffix, you could have, for example, odd numbers for west and north bound trains and even numbers for east and south bound trains (similar the the RER in Paris). For the Confederation Line, the Route/Destination numbers could be as follows:

A1 - Baseline
A2 - Trim Rd
A3 - Moodie Dr.
A4 - Place D'Orleans
A5 - Lincoln Fields
A6 - Blair Rd.

I'm thinking we won't have to wait too long to figure out, they'll probably make some branding decisions once they've picked consortiums.

I'm trying to think of interlining examples in North America:
Vancouver - Inconsistent. Destination names for Expo and Canada Lines, Line name for Millennium/Evergreen Extension, former overlap of Expo and Millennium lines
Edmonton - Two Line Names (Metro/Capital)
NYC - Numbers
LA - Line Names (Blue/Expo, and Red/Purple)
Calgary - Two Line Names (Red/Blue), but only interlined in a short section

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Numbers akin to New York would actually be quite cool haha,

When do we expect the preferred proponent to be chosen?

By the end of the year, I believe.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Isn't the Confederation Line interlining to Bayshore? In that case I don't see the logic in having a separate Line Number

The Confederation splits at Lincoln Fields. The system will be interlined during rush hour and weekdays, but a transfer will be needed for riders coming from one of the lines (not sure which one) nights and weekends when frequency is reduced to 15 minutes east of Lincoln fields (in order to maintain 15 minutes on both spurs).

So yes, I think they should have them as two lines - Confederation Line 1 to Moodie (and eventually Kanata) and maybe Kitchissippi Line 3 to Algonquin. Wish they would have reserved line 2 one of the Confederation splits.

[corynv]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The Confederation splits at Lincoln Fields. The system will be interlined during rush hour and weekdays, but a transfer will be needed for riders coming from one of the lines (not sure which one) nights and weekends when frequency is reduced to 15 minutes east of Lincoln fields (in order to maintain 15 minutes on both spurs).

So yes, I think they should have them as two lines - Confederation Line 1 to Moodie (and eventually Kanata) and maybe Kitchissippi Line 3 to Algonquin. Wish they would have reserved line 2 one of the Confederation splits.

I think depending on what they're going for, having odd numbered lines for east/west lines, and even for north-south is a good idea. (based off of the general direction of the main line)

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The Confederation splits at Lincoln Fields. The system will be interlined during rush hour and weekdays, but a transfer will be needed for riders coming from one of the lines (not sure which one) nights and weekends when frequency is reduced to 15 minutes east of Lincoln fields (in order to maintain 15 minutes on both spurs).

So yes, I think they should have them as two lines - Confederation Line 1 to Moodie (and eventually Kanata) and maybe Kitchissippi Line 3 to Algonquin. Wish they would have reserved line 2 one of the Confederation splits.

I guess when they numbered the lines Stage 2 hadn't been planned yet so there was no concept of a "split" on the Line 1.

Renumbering is possible of course, although in the grand scheme of things, not really necessary.