Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by VarBreStr18

I think this re-naming discussion is getting out of control. Lets not forget naming station is to help people find their way. Renaming is more costly than you think, every signage publication , maps need to be changed. Should we spend that kind of money? Hardly come up with enough money to build the line for now. Keep reconcilliation out of transit. Honour them in other ways please.

Actually it costs about $50k for all audio/signage/publication change in Montreal when a station is renamed. The STM thought it was $100k but was way less. This was when Square-Victoria was renamed to Square-Victoria-OACI. So it was not really expensive.

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

I don’t mean to disrespect to First Nations people, but your average joe will think it’s ridiculous naming a station like “Skwxwu7mesh” in phonetic spelling.

You are disrespecting them, though. Your assumption that no one cares about the language is very wrong.

Maybe take some time to talk to Indigenous folks to see why things like this are important to them, even if you don't think it is?

At the end of the day, there very well might be two concurrent names for these stations, and you'll be free to choose to refer to it by the name you can pronounce.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by bluefox

You are disrespecting them, though. Your assumption that no one cares about the language is very wrong.

Maybe take some time to talk to Indigenous folks to see why things like this are important to them, even if you don't think it is?

At the end of the day, there very well might be two concurrent names for these stations, and you'll be free to choose to refer to it by the name you can pronounce.

He is in no way being disrespectful! He is stating something that is common knowledge. People wouldn't know how to even begin to pronounce that name. Nothing to do with not caring

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

He is in no way being disrespectful! He is stating something that is common knowledge. People wouldn't know how to even begin to pronounce that name. Nothing to do with not caring

It's pronounced Squamish...

[scryer]

/logout.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Technically, it's Sk'hwomesh. Firebrand could've phrased it better, but yes, not only does "Sḵwx̱wú7mesh" not sound much different, but it's phonetically confusing for anybody whose language uses the English/Latin alphabet.

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Technically, it's Sk'hwomesh. Firebrand could've phrased it better, but yes, not only does "Sḵwx̱wú7mesh" not sound much different, but it's phonetically confusing for anybody whose language uses the English/Latin alphabet.

I don't disagree. As I said previously, there is almost 100% certainty that TransLink will stick with the naming conventions it's used for previous lines and use cross streets or landmarks to name stations.

I'm honestly just surprised by the level of hand-wringing over indigenous place names by some of the other commenters here and the refusal (at this point) to even acknowledge that for some people it might actually mean a lot to see themselves reflected in *anything* of relevance or importance in this city.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by bluefox

I don't disagree. As I said previously, there is almost 100% certainty that TransLink will stick with the naming conventions it's used for previous lines and use cross streets or landmarks to name stations.

I'm honestly just surprised by the level of hand-wringing over indigenous place names by some of the other commenters here and the refusal (at this point) to even acknowledge that for some people it might actually mean a lot to see themselves reflected in *anything* of relevance or importance in this city.

Sure, but I don't entirely blame them. The City's doing a real crap job of implementing Salish names right now.

Take the "Nə́c̓aʔmat ct Strathcona Branch" (Nathtsahmast, I believe). From a non-Indigenous prespective, it's superfluous, unpronounceable and tokenist. From an Indigenous perspective, it's a First Nations-only prefix attached to a "normal-sounding" name, like the linguistic equivalent of Whites Only/Coloureds Only bathrooms... and also tokenist. And if you call it the "Nə́c̓aʔmat ct Branch," obviously nobody except the First Nations will know what or where the hell it is.

To tie it all back to transit, I doubt that many people want a name like "X̱áywá7esks Main Street-Science World;" "Tsai'wa'esks Main Street-Science World" or just "Tsai'wa'esks" might work, but it's still going to cause headaches and confusion.
J.OT13 noted a few pages back that it works if you rename the neighbourhood - or create a new one - for brand recognition, but then you run into the problem of having most of the city already named (Olympic Village, Kerrisdale, Strathcona, etc).

[dpogue]

It's worth mentioning that some stations are already named using (albeit slightly mangled) Indigenous words: Nanaimo (from Snuneyxmuxw), and Coquitlam (from kʷikʷəƛ̓əm/Kwikwetlem) come to mind.

Plenty of other local place names are also Indigenous in origin: Matsqui (Máthxwi), Tsawwassen (sc̓əwaθən), Squamish (Sḵwx̱wú7mesh), Kitsilano (Xats'alanexw), Sechelt (Shishá7lh), Semiahmoo (SEMYOME).

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by bluefox

It's pronounced Squamish...

So then spell it that way

Not sure why some people want to culturally appropriate these names

[Firebrand]

Can we seriously move on from station names? This thread is starting to become a circle within that topic.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

Can we seriously move on from station names? This thread is starting to become a circle within that topic.

All threads on this forum are just circles within circles

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by cabotp

All threads on this forum are just circles within circles

All threads on All forums are just circles within circles.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Sure, but I don't entirely blame them. The City's doing a real crap job of implementing Salish names right now.

Take the "Nə́c̓aʔmat ct Strathcona Branch" (Nathtsahmast, I believe). From a non-Indigenous prespective, it's superfluous, unpronounceable and tokenist. From an Indigenous perspective, it's a First Nations-only prefix attached to a "normal-sounding" name, like the linguistic equivalent of Whites Only/Coloureds Only bathrooms... and also tokenist. And if you call it the "Nə́c̓aʔmat ct Branch," obviously nobody except the First Nations will know what or where the hell it is.

To tie it all back to transit, I doubt that many people want a name like "X̱áywá7esks Main Street-Science World;" "Tsai'wa'esks Main Street-Science World" or just "Tsai'wa'esks" might work, but it's still going to cause headaches and confusion.
J.OT13 noted a few pages back that it works if you rename the neighbourhood - or create a new one - for brand recognition, but then you run into the problem of having most of the city already named (Olympic Village, Kerrisdale, Strathcona, etc).

The Strathcona branch also for no reason doesn't show up as an N when listed alphabetically. It's listed last, after Z. The social housing built above also has a rather annoying name, "Cause We Care House", not because. Just cause'. Argh.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

All threads on All forums are just circles within circles.

The internet itself is a circle. You gotta love it when history repeats itself.

[scryer]

....and it shouldn't be.

Ok because I feel the need to stir the pot and continue the circle of life (net)...

After the Millennium line gets extended to Arbutus, where would be the most logical place for it to surface? And, at this point in the project, would it be feasible to do the cut-and-cover method without many repercussions?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by scryer

....and it shouldn't be.

Ok because I feel the need to stir the pot and continue the circle of life (net)...

After the Millennium line gets extended to Arbutus, where would be the most logical place for it to surface? And, at this point in the project, would it be feasible to do the cut-and-cover method without many repercussions?

A) UBC, that's the end goal. Any further piecemeal expansion is more wasted time and money than doing it in one go.

B) Not until it's past Alma. Try taking the 99 at rush hour and you'll see what I mean.

[Metro-One]

You want to know where will be the appropriate spot to use native names for a station or two?

On the second phase where it will actually travel through native managed land before reaching UBC.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

You want to know where will be the appropriate spot to use native names for a station or two?

On the second phase where it will actually travel through native managed land before reaching UBC.

That's what I'm thinking.

If they want to use native name... use it there. Probably pick one or two that's easier to pronounce, then use them. No alternative name, no English name, just one name.

Then, eventually, the entire area will be referred to by that name. At least to me, it means much more than having alternative name in every station that no one cares about.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

You want to know where will be the appropriate spot to use native names for a station or two?

On the second phase where it will actually travel through native managed land before reaching UBC.

Originally Posted by nname

... If they want to use native name... use it there. Probably pick one or two that's easier to pronounce, then use them. No alternative name, no English name, just one name.

Then, eventually, the entire area will be referred to by that name. At least to me, it means much more than having alternative name in every station that no one cares about.

Not to mention that "Jericho Lands Station" and "Block F Station" would be pretty dumb names. "Iyalmukh" (Squamish) and "Alqsen" (Musqueam) work much better.