Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

What I think should be the station names for the Broadway extension:

1) Great Northern Way (or Great Northern-Finning)
2) Mount Pleasant (without Main Street moniker, since that’ll be confusing with Main Street-Science World station)
3) Broadway City Hall
4) Oak-Hospital (or Oak-Fairview)
5) South Granville
6) Arbutus

Regarding the First Nations names be included as part of the reconciliation process, I think the best compromise would be to have those names in parenthesis ONLY appearing on the station name signs at the entrance of the station (similar to the Chinese characters at the entrance of Stadium-Chinatown station). Everything else should remain in English.

Station names should be named based on the street name or the neighbourhood the station is at, in order to remain clear, but at the same time, should not be a mouthful (C-Line station names are the absolute worst in this).

I think every station or street anywhere in the world should have a single name. That name can be in English, an aboriginal language, French, Chinese OR whatever, but just in one language. Emphasis on the OR here.

I remember the first time I went to Brussels, Belgium where much of the city has dual French and Flemish names.

So at one point I was looking for a metro station called Étangs Noirs and walked right by the sign that said... Zwarte Vijvers. Not very intuitive for someone looking for Étangs Noirs. And I doubt Étangs Noirs was intuitive for someone looking for Zwarte Vijvers.

Étangs Noirs was actually there somewhere on another sign on the other side of the station, but I did not see it.

[scryer]

We're thinking way too hard about naming the stations..

If we start incorporating Aboriginal names in this new extension, why not do it for the rest of the Skytrain network or regular streets? Seems a little late to me and a needlessly expensive consideration. Plus the confusion? I ain't sold, boo.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

A) Main Street-Science World isn't that much closer - the neighbourhood's basically centred halfway between the two.

B) Remember that OV is eventually going to stretch to Cambie too. I'm thinking that the Canada Line station will eventually be "Olympic Village West," with the downtown streetcar having OV Central and/or OV East stops.

A) I disagree, check Google Maps. I'd also say that the amenities around Main St include Science World, parks, seawall, and are much more approachable than OV station.

B) Yes there will be some kind of residential and a school there, I'm not sure anything outside the original OV plaza and surrounding buildings should be called OV.

[J.OT13]

We did it in Ottawa. The former LeBreton Station at LeBreton Flats, crossing Booth Street, will be named Pimisi once the Confederation Line opens. The art work in and around the station was/will be, created by indigenous artists.

Currently, Pimis means nothing to anyone, other than those who speak Algonquin (it means "eel"), but Rendez-Vous will name the district around the station "Pimisi" and hopefully, one of the new streets nearby, or a major new building, might also take on the name to give it significance for the rest of us.

LeBreton "Station";


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebreton_station

Pimisi Station;


https://ottawa.ca/en/pimisi-station-celebrating-culture-algonquin-people

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

A) I disagree, check Google Maps. I'd also say that the amenities around Main St include Science World, parks, seawall, and are much more approachable than OV station.

B) Yes there will be some kind of residential and a school there, I'm not sure anything outside the original OV plaza and surrounding buildings should be called OV.

A) I did check; OV Square is roughly 500m from the Expo Line and 700 from the Canada. Call it hair-splitting, but two blocks isn't much on a citywide scale (perhaps "off-centre" works better?).

B) I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the residential: it's supposed to be roughly as big as Phase 1. It might very well be that the new area gets its own name and the streetcar takes over "Olympic Village station," but the status quo works fine for now - one simply needs to walk out of the SkyTrain and look left.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

We did it in Ottawa. The former LeBreton Station at LeBreton Flats, crossing Booth Street, will be named Pimisi once the Confederation Line opens. The art work in and around the station was/will be, created by indigenous artists.

Currently, Pimis means nothing to anyone, other than those who speak Algonquin (it means "eel"), but Rendez-Vous will name the district around the station "Pimisi" and hopefully, one of the new streets nearby, or a major new building, might also take on the name to give it significance for the rest of us.

That's kind of the point, it only works if you rename the station and everything around it.

Maybe that's it - instead of a bunch of token building/station prefixes, we rename the districts instead. Jericho becomes "Uyul'mux," Fairview becomes "Tsai'wa'essks," NEFC/Crosstown - stupid name anyway - becomes "Skwachays" and so on and so forth, and then we just build stations with those names.

[Metro-One]

Okay, this is getting silly.

Like it or not the Vancouver area is now home to many other cultures than the local First Nations and many of the modern towns / settlements did not exist before colonization.

Now, I am not against renaming areas for reconciliation entirely.

Areas / towns that are still a majority native population (or at least very sizable portion) make sense, such as renaming the Haida Gwaii (also helps that it is a rather pretty sounding name).

The Salish Sea was also a good move, because it actually didn’t replace any names. The Georgia Straight is still the Georgia Straight, The Juan de Fuca Straight is still The Juan de Fuca, and Puget Sound is still Puget Sound, but now all three of these areas together create the Salish Sea. This is great because all 4 of these names represent different cultural backgrounds and moments in our now collective history.

But renaming very established neighborhoods in Vancouver? Doesn’t sit right with me.

Also it is not as if there is a lack of towns / locations in BC having First Nations names. Kelowna, Kamloops, Osoyoos, Coquitlam, Lillooet, Lytton, Squamish, etc...

This just comes off as trying to hard by the city of Vancouver.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Okay, this is getting silly.

Like it or not the Vancouver area is now home to many other cultures than the local First Nations and many of the modern towns / settlements did not exist before colonization.

Now, I am not against renaming areas for reconciliation entirely.

Areas / towns that are still a majority native population (or at least very sizable portion) make sense, such as renaming the Haida Gwaii (also helps that it is a rather pretty sounding name).

The Salish Sea was also a good move, because it actually didn’t replace any names. The Georgia Straight is still the Georgia Straight, The Juan de Fuca Straight is still The Juan de Fuca, and Puget Sound is still Puget Sound, but now all three of these areas together create the Salish Sea. This is great because all 4 of these names represent different cultural backgrounds and moments in our now collective history.

But renaming very established neighborhoods in Vancouver? Doesn’t sit right with me.

Also it is not as if there is a lack of towns / locations in BC having First Nations names. Kelowna, Kamloops, Osoyoos, Coquitlam, Lillooet, Lytton, Squamish, etc...

This just comes off as trying to hard by the city of Vancouver.

If they're gonna rename anything, they could start by renaming the SkyTrain lines to be more comprehensive. Expo line will be Waterfront to King George/Production Way-University line or Langley Centre line when hopefully extended. Millennium Line will be VCC-Clark toLafarge Lake/Douglas Line or UBC to Lafarge Lake-Douglas/Port Coquitlam line when extended to UBC and if a Port Coquitlam extension is built. Canada Line will be Waterfront-Richmond-Brighouse/YVR-Airport line. Words like "Canada" and "Expo" and "Millennium" don't give us much info as to where it's going.

Names for strictly location based things with important functionalities, like transportation systems ridden by thousands of commuters and tourists a day, should be based off location, not based off honouring people or events or things or whatever.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Étangs Noirs was actually there somewhere on another sign on the other side of the station, but I did not see it.

Yeah, I totally get that. As soon as you see the wrong name, you stop looking because you assume it's a different station. The solution to that is to make sure that every sign has both names.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The Salish Sea was also a good move, because it actually didn’t replace any names. The Georgia Straight is still the Georgia Straight, The Juan de Fuca Straight is still The Juan de Fuca, and Puget Sound is still Puget Sound, but now all three of these areas together create the Salish Sea. This is great because all 4 of these names represent different cultural backgrounds and moments in our now collective history.

The Skytrain equivalent of that would be to give the entire line an aboriginal name. I don't think that calling it an aboriginal "extension" would work very well (a la "Evergreen extension"), but I wouldn't have a problem with them renaming the entire Millenium Line to something else.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

But renaming very established neighborhoods in Vancouver? Doesn’t sit right with me.

I'll admit that Fairview was a bad example; well-established neighbourhood names like Yaletown and Marpole and Killarney should be safe, for obvious reasons.

But "Northeast False Creek?" "Jericho Lands?" "Oakridge Transit Centre?" "Mount Pleasant Industrial Area*?" Those aren't neighbourhood names, those are prepositions - and many of them aren't even neighbourhoods yet.
I doubt anybody would riot if the Heather Street Lands was given a Salish name tomorrow. Then the SkyTrain station would just be called 33rd-(Salish name).

*Seriously, that's the actual name on the website. It's that, or "Mount Pixel."

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

If they're gonna rename anything, they could start by renaming the SkyTrain lines to be more comprehensive. Expo line will be Waterfront to King George/Production Way-University line or Langley Centre line when hopefully extended. Millennium Line will be VCC-Clark toLafarge Lake/Douglas Line or UBC to Lafarge Lake-Douglas/Port Coquitlam line when extended to UBC and if a Port Coquitlam extension is built. Canada Line will be Waterfront-Richmond-Brighouse/YVR-Airport line. Words like "Canada" and "Expo" and "Millennium" don't give us much info as to where it's going.

Names for strictly location based things with important functionalities, like transportation systems ridden by thousands of commuters and tourists a day, should be based off location, not based off honouring people or events or things or whatever.

Sure, but "take the VCC-Clark to Lafarge Lake/Douglas Line to Commercial, then transfer to the Waterfront-Richmond-Brighouse line for Marine Drive" is a bit of a mouthful. If we ever do need to make SkyTrain names more functional, let's go with "East-West Line" or "UBC-Coquitlam Line."

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The Skytrain equivalent of that would be to give the entire line an aboriginal name. I don't think that calling it an aboriginal "extension" would work very well (a la "Evergreen extension"), but I wouldn't have a problem with them renaming the entire Millenium Line to something else.

Sounds good; I doubt anybody will have a problem with the Skookum Line or the Salish Line. Or they could go with a totem animals theme - Wolf, Bear, Raven, Thunderbird, Salmon, Orca....

[GlassCity]

I'd rather we just keep the names we have, and if we need to accommodate any new names, we can do them on new construction. It's not like we're not planning on building more transit. How is Vancouver supposed to develop a strong sense of place and history if we change things that don't need to be changed?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

How is Vancouver supposed to develop a strong sense of place and history if we change things that don't need to be changed?

Same way Americans are getting used to "Denali" after 119 years of knowing it as "Mount McKinley," I suppose. Heck, we've already got Kitsilano and Tsawwassen.

[VarBreStr18]

I think this re-naming discussion is getting out of control. Lets not forget naming station is to help people find their way. Renaming is more costly than you think, every signage publication , maps need to be changed. Should we spend that kind of money? Hardly come up with enough money to build the line for now. Keep reconcilliation out of transit. Honour them in other ways please.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

If they're gonna rename anything, they could start by renaming the SkyTrain lines to be more comprehensive. Expo line will be Waterfront to King George/Production Way-University line or Langley Centre line when hopefully extended. Millennium Line will be VCC-Clark toLafarge Lake/Douglas Line or UBC to Lafarge Lake-Douglas/Port Coquitlam line when extended to UBC and if a Port Coquitlam extension is built. Canada Line will be Waterfront-Richmond-Brighouse/YVR-Airport line. Words like "Canada" and "Expo" and "Millennium" don't give us much info as to where it's going.

Names for strictly location based things with important functionalities, like transportation systems ridden by thousands of commuters and tourists a day, should be based off location, not based off honouring people or events or things or whatever.

I agree stations names should be descriptive. They should be intuitive and named for cross-street, neighborhoods (if it only has one station) or a nearby landmark, but the lines don't need to be. You look at the map, you see where it goes.

When you start naming the line for every major street or destination, like Toronto, it gets confusing, hard to remember and kind of a mouth-full.

In the case of Pimisi, it's being built in an empty wasteland that's been sitting empty for 50+ years,so it will be easier to adapt the name for streets and buildings to come.

[WarrenC12]

I'm ok with names for new neighborhoods. They need to be reasonably pronounceable in English though, sorry.

[CivicBlues]

Why can't we just number our lines like in other cities? I can only imagine the mouthful "Millennium" is to some non-English speakers

Line 1 - (Expo Line)
Line 2 - (Millennium Line)
Line 3 - (Canada Line)

Or why not like Boston and LA where they use colours?

1. Blue Line
2. Yellow Line
3. Light Blue...seriously why tf didn't we colour this one Red? it's the CANADA line ffs.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Why can't we just number our lines like in other cities? I can only imagine the mouthful "Millennium" is to some non-English speakers

Line 1 - (Expo Line)
Line 2 - (Millennium Line)
Line 3 - (Canada Line)

Or why not like Boston and LA where they use colours?

1. Blue Line
2. Yellow Line
3. Light Blue...seriously why tf didn't we colour this one Red? it's the CANADA line ffs.

We use all three.

Line 1 - Confederation - Red
Line 2 - Trillium - Green

The name is what's going to stick with people though.

[djmk]

The best thing about Vancouver is that it is so culturally diverse. We are a mixture of everything and it changes daily as new people arrive. However, sometimes that means we don't have a shared culture, history, heros, identity, symbols etc.

If we can all agree democratically on a name and it becomes a base of who we are as a collective culture, I'm cool with that. In the end, what ever you call "Patterson Station" means nothing to me and probably everyone else here. But, if you call it something else to make someone happy, that's a win win for everyone.

My only request is to make it pronounceable. I am totally lost with Skwxwu7mesh (squamish)

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by djmk

My only request is to make it pronounceable. I am totally lost with Skwxwu7mesh (squamish)

I think we can all agree on that one. Call me an uncultured prick, but I really don't hear the difference between "Sḵwx̱wú7mesh" and "Sk'womesh."