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  #2681  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 3:56 AM
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WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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The NDP ran on the promise of re-examining the GMT bridge replacement and putting the Patullo first. If they are living up to promises they made in the election, I respect them for that. Same goes with removing tolls, even though I completely disagree with it.

As for the BC Libs, if they really wanted this bridge they should have done it. It was an election promise during the previous election cycle! If they did it like they did Site C, it would be too far along to cancel. Everybody who wanted this bridge has only Clark to blame.
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  #2682  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 4:49 AM
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So, NDP has now been in power for a few months and they have already managed to waste hundreds of millions of dollars without improving anything. Their voters must be proud of their expensive non-achievements.
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  #2683  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 5:07 AM
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Stingray2004 Stingray2004 is offline
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Originally Posted by Pinion View Post
Same thing happened with Lions Gate in the 90s. Wider bridge options were on the table and were the obvious choice but we got a refurb instead because we were solid Liberal at the time.
Sorry Pinion, that's incorrect. The NDP hardcore base in Van City ... esp. in the West End screamed at the top of their lungs opposing any increase in capacity on the LGB into "their neighbourhoods" and the "enviro effects".

Moreover, the BC NDP hardcore base also opposed removal of just trees along the Stanley park Causeway for its widening. (Never mind all trees blown down during wind storms) If ya know the 1990's BC NDP, they always shy away/get spooked at the loudest protest voices - no matter how minor they may be. Nature of the beast.

Now look at current BC NDP MoTI minister Trevena - a well known SJW/hardcore enviro. Today, in the media, Trevena stated the following:

Quote:
"We want to look at the different options. There was a sense that not all options were thoroughly examined," said Trevena.
All BS. Off the bat, MoTI has a very professional internal highway design team - all non-partisan. These folk also out-source to highway civil engineers. Moreover, the body of evidence surrounding the proposed GMB and all options is massive:

https://engage.gov.bc.ca/masseytunnel/documentlibrary/

Obvious that the entire matter has been examined beyond what one would rationally/reasonably expect.

Quote:
Trevena: "We want one that will get the approval of not just the engineers, but people that live and work in the region."
I mean FFS. The Angus Reid opinion poll of Metro Vancouver residents confirms 75% support for the proposed GMB.

Just 1990's BC NDP redux catering to their ideological hardcore base with the loudest voices. Damn everyone else. Bottom line. Seen same 1990's movie played out before numerous times.

PS. Just wanted to add... obvious that Van Sun's Vaughn Palmer is also apparently calling out BC NDP's decision today as a cluster$@##on the proposed GMB:

Quote:
Vaughn Palmer: Massey Bridge project sent into limbo

Cast into limbo is the work already done, including $66 million spent by the transportation ministry on planning, engineering and site preparation, and a further $25 million outlay by B.C. Hydro to begin relocating the transmission lines flanking the existing tunnel.

Still, Transportation Minister Claire Trevena insisted that the almost $100 million spent to date was not necessarily wasted nor were the New Democrats starting over on fixing admitted problems of safety and congestion at the aging crossing of the Fraser.

“We’re not going back to square one,” she told reporters, never mind that the New Democrats appeared to be doing just that after their earlier decision to cancel tolls on the Port Mann and Golden Ears bridges.

“We’re going back to a thorough consultation with the community,” the rookie transportation minister continued. “We haven’t made any decision on what is the best way forward, we need to be open to any recommendations provided by the review.”

The transportation ministry “is in the process of recruiting the individual to lead the technical review, and will support the review with expertise in highway infrastructure construction, transportation planning and traffic engineering,” according to the accompanying press release.

Judging from the evidence posted on the ministry website, much technical work has already been done. The document library for tunnel replacement project includes more than 150 project reports, analyses, traffic forecasts, seismic and geotechnical studies, fact sheets, and other findings.

The project has already cleared a review by the provincial environmental assessment office. Separate studies covered everything from the impact of the new bridge on barn owls, raptors, herons, small mammals, amphibians and at-risk plants to concerns about water quality, hydrogeology, contaminated sites and heritage preservation.

Earlier this year, the Massey replacement also cleared a review by the Agricultural Land Commission, which green-lighted a swap that was projected to increase the regional stock of agricultural land once the bridge were completed.

The ministry also presided over three rounds of public consultations going back five years and separate exchanges with 13 First Nations and other Indigenous groups. Plus it claimed almost 700 meetings with others with an interest in the project.

With all that effort and documentation in hand, Trevena nevertheless insisted that the cabinet was not expressing non-confidence in the transportation ministry by ordering further review.

The ministry had done “some good work” she maintained in grudging tribute to senior staff. But that still wasn’t enough to satisfy her and her colleagues at the cabinet table.

“There was a sense that not all options were thoroughly examined,” she told reporters. “The feedback on the 10-lane bridge I heard was very strong opposition from many, many quarters.”

To be sure. And if she gets around to reading the material on her own ministry’s website, she will discover that many of the common place objections have already been analyzed and dismissed in the various engineering studies and reports.

Take the suggestion that the ministry could get away with building a second tunnel alongside the first and then upgrading the existing 60-year-old tunnel to modern-day seismic standards.

“Bringing the existing tunnel to modern day seismic standards is not practical due to the risk of damage and the limitations of densifying soils under the tunnel,” according to one of the technical studies quoted on the ministry site.

“The tunnel’s height and width are below modern day standards. Many trucks have been stuck in the tunnel and several fires have occurred…..

“The tunnel cannot be made wider, higher or meet current seismic codes. A new structure built to modern day standards will reduce crashes and other incidents and provide a safer facility in the event of an earthquake.”

Would an independent review, conducted with the same level of technical expertise, reach a different conclusion? If not, the bridge might end up back on the table as the preferred choice.

But Trevena may well reach a different conclusion on the timing of the replacement from the political consultations she herself with be conducting to obtain “buy in” from mayors in the Metro Vancouver region.
http://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/vaughn-palmer-bridge-project-sent-into-limbo

Last edited by Stingray2004; Sep 7, 2017 at 5:35 AM.
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  #2684  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:30 AM
whatnext whatnext is offline
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Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
Sorry, but that is both an ignorant and stupid comment to make. Firstly, a government governs for all... not hardcore NDP types. Moreover, the GreeNDP gov't is so unstable that it likely won't last past next spring.

Moreover, it's also obvious that ya are completely clueless on the commuter catchment area for the GMT - major traffic in-flows/off-flows include River Road/SFPR and Ladner Trunk Road (Hwy 10). The ridings thereto include marginally NDP-held Delta North and Surrey-Panorama. For starters.

The GreeNDP has caused such a mess with the MOTI/Translink files... Pattullo Bridge will never even proceed. Yep.
LOL the government governs for all,. Right like the BC Liberals governed for mill towns when they allowed raw log exports, or when they sold BC Rail. They governed to try and break the NDP's union base, don't be so naive. And everyone knows the Massey tunnel is largely for the middle aged "or better" folks in Ladner, Tsawassen and White Rock. Like all old white folks they love them some BC Liberals, sorry they backed the wrong horse.
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  #2685  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:34 AM
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Really, you are going to racialize the GMB? For me that is jumping the shark. One could equally argue that it would / would have benefited the Chinese most of all or any other insert group here that lives along the corridor. How about Americans?

Initial reactions on the Canada section is this is a set back for the entire nation.

And yes, I do blame the Liberals for this mess as well, the project should have been past the point of no return come election time.
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  #2686  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
The mayors of metro Vancouver being against a project does not hold much weight in appraising a projects value.


Heck, for decades the same was true for transit projects! (Burnaby being the worst for that, even against projects within their own borders such as the SFU gondola).

Can we finally get this one straight. For starters it's not a TransLink priority, then there's the nimbys complaining about people looking at them from the gondolas and finally...
Quote:
But it all comes down to dollars. Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan noted that it would be “spectacular” to ride a tram up the mountain, with all the amazing scenery, and it would be a boon to tourism in his city. But he questions where TransLink will get the money, when the cash-strapped transportation authority is struggling to maintain existing services.

Vancouver Sun
...and it not being in the 10 year plan
Quote:
Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan explained the omission to the Burnaby Now: “I wanted a more realistic, more focused plan. If you keep adding items to a wish list then pretty soon it becomes so unrealistic that no one ever believes it will be done.”

Corrigan said the the decision was mainly based on economic feasibility. He said, “There’s a lot of arguments being made about the gondola being more environmentally sound than the buses are, and I think there’s merit to that argument, but when it comes to financial, the argument on it didn’t work.”

The Peak
That's not the ravings of a madman - who btw has managed to keep Burnaby out of debt.
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  #2687  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 7:27 AM
Pinion Pinion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
Sorry Pinion, that's incorrect. The NDP hardcore base in Van City ... esp. in the West End screamed at the top of their lungs opposing any increase in capacity on the LGB into "their neighbourhoods" and the "enviro effects".

Moreover, the BC NDP hardcore base also opposed removal of just trees along the Stanley park Causeway for its widening. (Never mind all trees blown down during wind storms) If ya know the 1990's BC NDP, they always shy away/get spooked at the loudest protest voices - no matter how minor they may be. Nature of the beast.
Of course that was a huge factor too. What I said wasn't incorrect. If the NDP had a chance at winning the north shore they might have been willing to consider our existence. The west end is a tiny voting group in comparison.
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  #2688  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 8:18 AM
sunsetmountainland sunsetmountainland is offline
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Of course that was a huge factor too. What I said wasn't incorrect. If the NDP had a chance at winning the north shore they might have been willing to consider our existence. The west end is a tiny voting group in comparison.
I find it interesting that you are now leaving us even thought your party of choice is in power!
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  #2689  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 8:24 AM
Pinion Pinion is offline
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I find it interesting that you are now leaving us even thought your party of choice is in power!
The NDP can't save the city, I only see them as a less poisonous option than continuing to allow Clark to stay in power. I've never agreed with their road infrastructure stance.

And I'm not leaving you, you don't live in Vancouver.
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  #2690  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 8:36 AM
Marshal Marshal is offline
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- major disappointment
- not happy to have to wait to find out what will eventually get done
- happy that the over-scale issue will likely get rectified
- other projects better bloody well get going
- lots of BS, emotional invective and exaggeration in many related posts
- calm down, don't insult people who see things differently, and stop thinking that these things are peculiar to Vancouver, BC, and the BC NDP - this happens all over because politics is almost always involved
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  #2691  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 8:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Can we finally get this one straight. For starters it's not a TransLink priority, then there's the nimbys complaining about people looking at them from the gondolas and finally...


...and it not being in the 10 year plan


That's not the ravings of a madman - who btw has managed to keep Burnaby out of debt.
I am sorry, but that is a load of BS. He conveniently hid behind the "financial aspect" in order to not upset the NIMBYs. He essentially had his cake and ate it too in that outcome.

Do you know where the list of projects came from on Translink's 10 year plan? It was all the mayors who pushed for their communities' individual projects that they desired. The Surrey LRT, which has a far, far, far worse cost benefit ratio / business case than the SFU Gondola, somehow made it onto the list... I wonder how that happened??

And Corrigan has been famous for being opposed to nearly every road and rail project that has been completed over the last 15 years. I believe he was even against the idea of the Broadway Line being skytrain / subway.
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  #2692  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 4:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
...and it not being in the 10 year plan
Of course it's not in the 10 year plan. Why would it be? It's a provincial matter. The 10 year plan only contains things that are within Translink's purview. A lot of other important infrastructure isn't in the 10 year plan either, because those things belong to provincial ministries.
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  #2693  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 4:50 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
Really, you are going to racialize the GMB? For me that is jumping the shark. One could equally argue that it would / would have benefited the Chinese most of all or any other insert group here that lives along the corridor. How about Americans?

Initial reactions on the Canada section is this is a set back for the entire nation.

And yes, I do blame the Liberals for this mess as well, the project should have been past the point of no return come election time.
I'm just putting it out plainly who the BC Liberal base is who wanted this bridge. It wasn't a priority for anyone else. How ludicrous is it to force a bridge on the public that their elected mayors didn't want and that the transit and road authority didn't ask for?! Given the NDP and Green priorities why is anyone surprised? Politically they are far better to put the money into rapid transit projects their voters want. Why get worked up about it, do you live in the affected area?

I get the posters who feel the "gee whiz, what a monster project" love, but that's not a good basis for jumping all over other planning. The bridge was overkill plain and simple and there are strong reservations about the wisdom of such a structure on the soils of Richmond.

I supported the PMB/Hwy 1 project because that's where the growth in metro is. Due to the ALR the are the GMB was going to serve was never going to get that kind of growth.
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  #2694  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 4:57 PM
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I supported the PMB/Hwy 1 project because that's where the growth in metro is. Due to the ALR the are the GMB was going to serve was never going to get that kind of growth.
Actually, South Surrey is going to grow by leaps and bounds over the next few decades, which is what this bridge will serve. This is where a large chunk of the last remaining developable land outside the ALR in the region is, and it is already booming down there with development.
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  #2695  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 5:33 PM
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The bridge was overkill plain and simple and there are strong reservations about the wisdom of such a structure on the soils of Richmond.
Bridges all over the world are built on soft soils through the magic of friction piles. The engineering is sound - just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's not possible.
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  #2696  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 5:57 PM
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re the Lions Gate in the 1990s; my memory is that there were options to widen the bridge, but the cost required a toll. The North Shore was against a toll. The government of the day said, well you can lead horse to water... had figured out and presented back up options for what was affordable without a toll and did that with the wishes of the North Shore. The main memory is the sense of entitlement people elsewhere in the province felt with the Coquihalla Highway recently having been tolled. Don't want to pay for it, then you don't get it.
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  #2697  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:02 PM
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re the GMB delay - "It's a set back for the nation...

Wow. Read those traffic studies. Only like 5% of the traffic through the tunnel is going across the border (even much of that truck traffic is going to Deltaport, SOF, etc).

I'd rather they upgraded Hwy 15 / 176 St like Gordon Campbell's government had planned to in the mid-2000's with the preliminary Gateway studies.

The GMB project was for SOV to commute to work. The Clark government made this project political, this is the consequence given limited resources.
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  #2698  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:10 PM
Pinion Pinion is offline
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Wrong on all accounts.

No bridges were tolled in the 90s, any community would and should resist that. It wasn't an option for the north shore, we were told we're getting three lanes total and to suck eggs.

GMB is for the Port of Vancouver. The west coast port=the nation, not America.
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  #2699  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 7:35 PM
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WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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In the case of a bridge, this may be more cut and dried, but just look at the process for the Convention Centre, or the BC Place roof replacement. I like both of those projects, but the budgets were a joke.
Proving my point....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-co...elieve-cost-taxpayers-millions-1.4144535
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  #2700  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 8:07 PM
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Bridges all over the world are built on soft soils through the magic of friction piles. The engineering is sound - just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's not possible.
LOL, keep trying.
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