Winnipeg Construction IX

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by buzzg

WolselyMan for new Hydro CEO! ... Seriously though, I never understood why Hydro started to push toward exports... that's the opposite of what a gov't institution should be focusing on.

^ And Wolf, Karma hasn't developed anything really before. They started as an interior design company and then added property management. If they have done entire projects before, I'd be surprised if it was anything more than a duplex.

I couldn't figure out what looked so odd about the project - then realized it looks like all the parking is above ground with the apartments on top. Look at that main entrance - that's brutal!

The whole direction of MB Hydro changed when they mistakenly went after export dollars for Hydro. The mandate of cheap, clean and reliable power for Manitobans was why MB Hydro was established, how and why they got away from that was because of misguided political interference. So instead we got an insurmountable MB Hydro debt., predicted yearly increases above the rate of inflation in power costs to Manitobans for the next ten years, billions of dollars of damage to lake, rivers and streams throughout the province, power exported at prices cheaper than what Manitobans pay, a hydro transmission line zigzagging the province for no logical reason, hydro dams under construction with no buyers for the power they will produce.....

Even when power was cheap relative to anywhere else in NA how much power hungry manufacturing did we really attract? Next to zilch!

[esquire]

I thought the conventional wisdom was that focusing on exports was regarded as a sound strategy until the US all of a sudden discovered huge, previously unknown natural gas reserves.

[buzzg]

^Yeah but the government should never be the one producing those exports. That's the main issue here. If they said "hey, sell power" to private companies like the AB gov did with oil, we'd be in the clear. Yes, I know that's oversimplified.

[CoryB]

My understanding is MB Hydro correctly was building generation capabilities to be ahead of projected future demand from within MB. Along the way someone noted they had excess capacity and there was a market for that. Selling to that export market could help them pay down the cost of the future capacity project quicker without having an impact on MB residents. In return they could continue to offer MB residents super low rates.

Somewhere along the line that focus shifted to selling excess power to building to meet needs of the export market. It was that shift some selling excess capacity to building specifically for the export market that lead to Hydro truly losing focus on their principal reason for existence.

[bomberjet]

Hydro is a complete mess right now. They need to figure themselves out internally on the most basic of fronts. Never mind selling power to other nations. If any of you have dealt with Hydro before, they are 10 times worse right now since the 900 staff were let go. 10 times? Maybe 100 times worse, I don't know. They're extremely frustrating.

[buzzg]

For the life of me I can't remember what forum we were discussing the idea of a plastic bag ban, Manitoba needing to increase enviro deposits and bottle buy-back programs but...

Today Kenya introduced a flat out plastic bag ban for the entire country. Anyone caught producing, selling, or purchasing a plastic bag faces FOUR YEARS in jail or $40,000 in fines.

If Kenya can do it, surely Winnipeg could be progressive and do it as well. It was brought up in the Glen Murray days, right after Winnipeg became the first city to ban smoking inside I believe. Plus we have a lot of local paper/pulp companies that would chomp at the bit.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by esquire

I thought the conventional wisdom was that focusing on exports was regarded as a sound strategy until the US all of a sudden discovered huge, previously unknown natural gas reserves.

Not to mention that when oil tanked in 2008, so did natural gas, but when oil rebounded after, natural gas stayed cheap. That hurt substantial investment into that sector.

Originally Posted by buzzg

^Yeah but the government should never be the one producing those exports. That's the main issue here. If they said "hey, sell power" to private companies like the AB gov did with oil, we'd be in the clear. Yes, I know that's oversimplified.

Boom. Spot on.

It's oversimplified, but it's all that actually needs to be said.

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Hydro is a complete mess right now. They need to figure themselves out internally on the most basic of fronts. Never mind selling power to other nations. If any of you have dealt with Hydro before, they are 10 times worse right now since the 900 staff were let go. 10 times? Maybe 100 times worse, I don't know. They're extremely frustrating.

I have a few friends working in various hydro departments, and strangely, they all have conservative leanings. They're actually happy about the cuts... they're horribly annoyed with the unnecessary money they pay to unnecessary people, not to mention at a high salary along with tons of vacation/sick leave.

Perhaps there is an adjustment period, but I'm very happy that they're being forced to be efficient.

[buzzg]

^Very Ron Swanson.

Seriously though, I have a friend that works there who is actually pretty NDP-leaning, and even he says it's absurd how much waste there is there. So many people far past their working prime/ability who openly admit they just come to work, do almost nothing, and sit at a desk to collect a cheque.

[bomberjet]

^ Re: Hydro

Don't get me wrong, huge cost savings measure. I would hope they eventually get sorted out.

[buzzg]

They'll just stop hiring positions as people retire/die.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Even when power was cheap relative to anywhere else in NA how much power hungry manufacturing did we really attract? Next to zilch!

The closest was when Sterling Lyon persuaded Alcan to build a smelter at Balmoral, but he lost the 1981 election to the NDP which wasn't going to push its predecessor's pet project forward.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by Andy6

The closest was when Sterling Lyon persuaded Alcan to build a smelter at Balmoral, but he lost the 1981 election to the NDP which wasn't going to push its predecessor's pet project forward.

Yeah I think Alcan was using us at the time to leverage Quebec. Just like the Michelin plant that went to New Brunswick.

I do think Hydro Quebec gets more development bang with their resource than we do here. For example they promoted the development of world class engineering firms in Montreal through their external procurement policies. A purchase order is worth a lot more to a company that a cash subsidy. I know there has been some examples of this in Manitoba as well, but Hydro here tended to do more stuff in-house. Don't know if that is still the case. Different corporate philosophies and mandates. Lowest cost to consumer versus strategic economic development.

[WolselyMan]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

Yeah I think Alcan was using us at the time to leverage Quebec. Just like the Michelin plant that went to New Brunswick.

I do think Hydro Quebec gets more development bang with their resource than we do here. For example they promoted the development of world class engineering firms in Montreal through their external procurement policies. A purchase order is worth a lot more to a company that a cash subsidy. I know there has been some examples of this in Manitoba as well, but Hydro here tended to do more stuff in-house. Don't know if that is still the case. Different corporate philosophies and mandates. Lowest cost to consumer versus strategic economic development.

In other words...

Pandering to voters who don't wanna worry about bills if they leave the TV on, while gone for vacation > A prosperous province and city that'll work hard to put itself on the map.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by buzzg

^Very Ron Swanson.

Seriously though, I have a friend that works there who is actually pretty NDP-leaning, and even he says it's absurd how much waste there is there. So many people far past their working prime/ability who openly admit they just come to work, do almost nothing, and sit at a desk to collect a cheque.

The bloat at hydro is pretty indefensible, I too have buddies there who say the number of management positions ballooned under the NDP watch, in some cases the number quadrupled in some depts. with no increases and even decreases in the number of workers.

The pay scale is way out of whack there as well with engineers and professional people making less than some with little to no education.

A socialist paradise, you got it with MB Hydro!

[StNorberter]

Thread = Wpg Construction

Discussion = MB Hydro policies.

Wrong thread, methinks.

[WolselyMan]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

The bloat at hydro is pretty indefensible, I too have buddies there who say the number of management positions ballooned under the NDP watch, in some cases the number quadrupled in some depts. with no increases and even decreases in the number of workers.

The pay scale is way out of whack there as well with engineers and professional people making less than some with little to no education.

A socialist paradise, you got it with MB Hydro!

Think of all the wetlands we could've drained with that money!

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by StNorberter

Thread = Wpg Construction

Discussion = MB Hydro policies.

Wrong thread, methinks.

My Hydro comments are related to ongoing construction projects in the Province. So it's the right thread.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by WolselyMan

Think of all the wetlands we could've drained with that money!

Three marshes completely destroyed by Hydro come to mind: Netley, Libau and Delta!

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

^ Re: Hydro

Don't get me wrong, huge cost savings measure. I would hope they eventually get sorted out.

I could have been more clear... I do not doubt the frustrations of dealing with them...

Hopefully they sort those out as they adjust to the cuts and actually work

Originally Posted by rrskylar

The bloat at hydro is pretty indefensible, I too have buddies there who say the number of management positions ballooned under the NDP watch, in some cases the number quadrupled in some depts. with no increases and even decreases in the number of workers.

The pay scale is way out of whack there as well with engineers and professional people making less than some with little to no education.

A socialist paradise, you got it with MB Hydro!

Not just old people past their working prime, inexperienced kids straight out of university thrust straight into good pay, benefits, leave, and 2 mondays off per month!

I actually think Hydro is a great place for new graduates to work, but after a couple of years that learning has turned into a passive work environment, they lack the experience and knowledge their private counterparts have aquired, but cannot bear going private because of the lower pay! If they had the skillset, perhaps they could bounce back, but who knows.

Locks them into hydro for a lifetime, which is not bad for them financially, but not good for them professionally. And not good for Hydro at all.

[bomberjet]

I think I've said this once before. I have colleagues who've gone from consulting to Hydro and it's a culture shock. From fast paced, charge out every hour you work or else. To hydro slow, do nothing for days type pace. I don't mean to keep ragging on hydro because they also have very good, smart people.