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  #3881  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 7:01 PM
West Peachtree West Peachtree is offline
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Domino's on 10th & Spring is leaving???

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East View Post
I have driven by this site everyday since they closed the Checkers, and it's amazing how large the bottom level will be. Also amazing: how much farther along Modera and Icon are than Hanover.

I'm also excited to see that Domino's replaced with something HUGE.

Pray tell, what is happening on the Domino's site near AQUA Midtown?

- What other parcels involved?
- Offices or Residences along with ground level retail?
- Timetable?
- Developer?

Details and comments, please. Thanks !!
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  #3882  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 7:19 PM
PhunkyPho PhunkyPho is offline
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Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East View Post
Gorgeous MMPT video (watch this NOW, and be amazed!) https://vimeo.com/89638667
I had forgotten about this video. Unbelievable! Why can't we have nice things? Dear Atlanta, pretty please make something like this happen? We'll be good, I promise.
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  #3883  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 7:19 PM
PhunkyPho PhunkyPho is offline
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Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
Can people STOP quoting the same god damn pictures 3 or 4 times? Delete the photos from the quote in your post. That's one of my biggest pet peeves on this forum.
Pet peeves are one of my pet peeves.
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  #3884  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 8:07 PM
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Zanarkand A East Zanarkand A East is offline
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Originally Posted by ATLmangum View Post
Guys, regarding the Braves, please get your facts straight. They had been trying for years to work with the city and Fulton county to develop the land around the stadium, but because the city leaders were greedy and everyone wanted a piece of the pie, nothing happened. The city never thought they would leave, so the Braved called their bluff and made their own deal with Cobb that worked out in the Braves favor, they now own the rights to the stadium and the land around it, vs being a tenant and having no control of the game Day experience for their fans. The move left the city with their pants down and forced the city to sell off the land to Ga State at a far lower price than what they had offered the braves to develop the land. Don't blame the Braves for this, blame greedy city officials. In the end, the big winners are the Braves and Ga State. Any shade thrown toward the Braves themselves is un called for.
The barves left the negotiation table long before the deadline to reach a deal, and there were mad that the city would allow the conflict of interest that the barves were asking for: being able to both bid on who would develop the area around the stadium, and be a developer making a bid. Also, the barves' plan was always to limit the development to no more than 2 restaurants, 2 bars, and 1 coffee shop, so they could still gouge on concessions in the stadium. In the end, they wanted the world, and cobb was willing to give it to them.

Meanwhile, downtown is better off without them, and within 5 years, Atlanta will forget all about the barves. Had the barves played ball with the city, they may have been able to build a brand new stadium on the Georgia Dome site, and Georgia State would still have their stadium, but the barves probably wouldn't have cooperated since their out-of-state, faceless owner are only interested in real estate and complete control over the area, which they have in their strip mall in Cumberland with zero transit rail. Looks like a everyone got what they wanted.
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  #3885  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 8:09 PM
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Zanarkand A East Zanarkand A East is offline
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Originally Posted by PhunkyPho View Post
I had forgotten about this video. Unbelievable! Why can't we have nice things? Dear Atlanta, pretty please make something like this happen? We'll be good, I promise.
Maybe the Ressler project will get the state and federal agencies excited about this area again? The environmental studies may have been completed in 2013, so having a motivated private developer on-board nearby may be enough to reenergize this project. Here's hoping!
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  #3886  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 8:54 PM
ATLontheRISE ATLontheRISE is offline
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Originally Posted by ATLmangum View Post
Guys, regarding the Braves, please get your facts straight. They had been trying for years to work with the city and Fulton county to develop the land around the stadium, but because the city leaders were greedy and everyone wanted a piece of the pie, nothing happened. The city never thought they would leave, so the Braved called their bluff and made their own deal with Cobb that worked out in the Braves favor, they now own the rights to the stadium and the land around it, vs being a tenant and having no control of the game Day experience for their fans. The move left the city with their pants down and forced the city to sell off the land to Ga State at a far lower price than what they had offered the braves to develop the land. Don't blame the Braves for this, blame greedy city officials. In the end, the big winners are the Braves and Ga State. Any shade thrown toward the Braves themselves is un called for.
I couldn't disagree more. The Braves are just as greedy as anyone. I find it ironic that you didn't even consider the arm robbery that occurred, to the tune of 400 million dollars that Cobb tax payers are stuck with. Meanwhile you want other to feel bad because the city of Atlanta wouldn't be bambooed by the Braves who are owned by an organization who makes billions of dollars and seek out tax breaks that "we" the citizens foot the bill for. The Braves made their move. Good. The city will be even better. If you want to catch the braves in their new stadium so close to their fan base....it's very easy. The stadium is empty. Give me a break with this crap about the braves being the victim.
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  #3887  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 8:56 PM
atlwarrior atlwarrior is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East View Post
The barves left the negotiation table long before the deadline to reach a deal, and there were mad that the city would allow the conflict of interest that the barves were asking for: being able to both bid on who would develop the area around the stadium, and be a developer making a bid. Also, the barves' plan was always to limit the development to no more than 2 restaurants, 2 bars, and 1 coffee shop, so they could still gouge on concessions in the stadium. In the end, they wanted the world, and cobb was willing to give it to them.

Meanwhile, downtown is better off without them, and within 5 years, Atlanta will forget all about the barves. Had the barves played ball with the city, they may have been able to build a brand new stadium on the Georgia Dome site, and Georgia State would still have their stadium, but the barves probably wouldn't have cooperated since their out-of-state, faceless owner are only interested in real estate and complete control over the area, which they have in their strip mall in Cumberland with zero transit rail. Looks like a everyone got what they wanted.
Exactly and the owners who live in Colorado totally dismantle the team setting it years back by getting rid of alot of good players. It was totally for corporate greed and profit, totally unlike Arthur Blank who loves the City of Atlanta.
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  #3888  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 9:24 PM
Frankster87 Frankster87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East View Post
The barves left the negotiation table long before the deadline to reach a deal, and there were mad that the city would allow the conflict of interest that the barves were asking for: being able to both bid on who would develop the area around the stadium, and be a developer making a bid. Also, the barves' plan was always to limit the development to no more than 2 restaurants, 2 bars, and 1 coffee shop, so they could still gouge on concessions in the stadium. In the end, they wanted the world, and cobb was willing to give it to them.

Meanwhile, downtown is better off without them, and within 5 years, Atlanta will forget all about the barves. Had the barves played ball with the city, they may have been able to build a brand new stadium on the Georgia Dome site, and Georgia State would still have their stadium, but the barves probably wouldn't have cooperated since their out-of-state, faceless owner are only interested in real estate and complete control over the area, which they have in their strip mall in Cumberland with zero transit rail. Looks like a everyone got what they wanted.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Atlanta is on its way to becoming a world class city, and the Braves will be stuck out in the sprawl of yester-year. People refer to distance, like that means anything in metro Atlanta. 8-10 miles from the core means a lot less in cities like New York and Chicago, where the urban foot print is much larger. 8-10 miles from the core in Atlanta puts you in post WWII style suburbia (Suntrust Park is roughly 10 miles from Midtown, even further from Downtown, the true core of Atlanta). Spoiler alert, a baseball stadium in the middle of suburban office parks is just a let down for most people. Most of the people excited about the new location are only excited about it because it's closer to their neck of the woods and that makes them happy. Suntrust park will always feel like a bigger Gwinette Arena due to its location (I've been to both).

I imagine they will eventually come back after they milk Cobb for all it can (probably under new ownership after current ownership cashes out). One only has to look at their track record on smaller scale deals to see how this one ends. But hey, maybe Bloomberg is just in on the whole anti-Cobb thing too.

Bloomberg:

Over the last 15 years, the Braves have extracted nearly half a billion in public funds for four new homes, each bigger and more expensive than the last. The crown jewel, backed by $392 million in public funding, is a $722 million, 41,500-seat stadium for the major league club set to open next year in Cobb County, northwest of Atlanta. Before Cobb, the Braves built three minor league parks, working their way up the ladder from Single A to Triple A. In every case, they switched cities, pitting their new host against the old during negotiations. They showered attention on local officials unaccustomed to dealing with a big-league franchise and, in the end, left most of the cost on the public ledger. Says Joel Maxcy, a sports economist at Drexel University: “If there’s one thing the Braves know how to do, it’s how to get money out of taxpayers.”

Sound familiar?

Last edited by Frankster87; Jun 30, 2017 at 9:44 PM.
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  #3889  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 9:30 PM
testarossa50 testarossa50 is offline
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I'm mainly sour about Suntrust because the architecture and design of the surroundings ex-the Battery is attocious. The whole thing reeks of VE and suburban-church finishes.

The Battery is cool, and the seats are closer to the field which enhances the viewing experience. Otherwise, meh.
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  #3890  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 10:25 PM
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scania scania is offline
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I have to say...some of you are talking about a world class city. Whether it's NYC, LA, San Fran, etc. those cities can have a stadium or an arena, outside the city limits and people will support those teams to the fullest. Atlanta had the Falcons thinking about moving to Doraville, and people were going crazy about how they wouldn't support the Falcons. The Braves move 10 miles or so away from their old park and just a few miles outside the city limits. To be PC, I won't say anymore.
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  #3891  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 10:36 PM
Frankster87 Frankster87 is offline
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Originally Posted by scania View Post
I have to say...some of you are talking about a world class city. Whether it's NYC, LA, San Fran, etc. those cities can have a stadium or an arena, outside the city limits and people will support those teams to the fullest. Atlanta had the Falcons thinking about moving to Doraville, and people were going crazy about how they wouldn't support the Falcons. The Braves move 10 miles or so away from their old park and just a few miles outside the city limits. To be PC, I won't say anymore.
Maybe the difference is that the stadiums in the cities you mention, weren't the result of a political F-YOU to the host city?

Again, say what you will, but Suntrust Park, due to its location and the built environment of its surrounding area, will never have the same feeling as walking up to Wrigley, or any other great urban ball park.
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  #3892  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 11:04 PM
jsvh jsvh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLmangum View Post
Guys, regarding the Braves, please get your facts straight. They had been trying for years to work with the city and Fulton county to develop the land around the stadium, but because the city leaders were greedy and everyone wanted a piece of the pie, nothing happened.
This is actually measurably false. There are no Braves proposals for developing the Turner Field area. However, the city was pushing to have the area developed and here are some of the many designs they solicited before the Braves sprung their surprise departure on everyone:

Visions pitched for Turner Field parking lots

Quote:
The city’s economic development arm, Invest Atlanta, sent out a request for ideas for how developers might transform 55 acres of land north of the ballpark into a mixed-use sports and entertainment district with year-round activity.

At the request of Invest Atlanta — which has a mission to fuel economic progress, help startup businesses, issue bonds for development and cultivate homeownership — each of the Turner Field proposals contains expansion of the downtown streetcar or other transit links, parking decks with at least 10,000 spaces, and a design theme to honor Hank Aaron’s home run record and the history of the Braves.


Funny, a lot of these plans look exactly like what started getting developed in the area the day the Braves walked out the door. Almost like the Braves were the problem.
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  #3893  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 11:25 PM
jsvh jsvh is offline
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Originally Posted by Atlanta3000 View Post
Remember this?



This is it now:

Situated in the heart of a metropolis downtown, the Urban Hotel Concept is a 17 story, 325 key boutique hotel nestled within a surrounding fabric of skyscrapers and mid-rise buildings. Formally, the hotel responds to the varying scales of the surrounding area by visually breaking the podium from the guestroom tower, revealing a lower roof deck and garden. The main hotel tower is offset to the back of the site, allowing a more human scale to the street frontage. At the street, the podium levels are organized with restaurants and bars located at the edges, providing additional vitality to the urban fabric. A void in the geometry at the top of the tower provides a covered outdoor dining area and adjacent lounge deck with panoramic views of Midtown and Downtown. The hotel program includes retail, car rental, a restaurant, rooftop lounge, and 7500 square feet of meeting and banquet spaces.
Wow! This does look amazing!
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  #3894  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 3:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Funny, a lot of these plans look exactly like what started getting developed in the area the day the Braves walked out the door. Almost like the Braves were the problem.
There are two sides to everything. Here are my views:

1. The parking lots were never owned by the Braves so the idea that the Braves are at fault for them not being developed is laughable. Can't develop something you don't own.

2. The deal broke down over control. The Braves wanted it. Fulton/Atlanta wanted it. Fulton/Atlanta had competition with Cobb. The Braves decided to go with the government partner who would allow them to control the development. This is where the use of tax dollar issue gets put into play and there are sound governmental reasons why Fulton/Atlanta wanted to keep control. There are also sound business reasons why the Braves would want it. (Point number 1 above that Fulton/Atlanta never met earlier promises is one of them.)

3. The fact that what is getting built now looks like what was proposed earlier does not show that the Braves were the problem. Remember, the Braves argument was that they needed to control the development/own the lots to make it happen. How is it happening? Fulton/Atlanta sold the lots to Georgia State who owns/controls the development and is partnering with someone in much the same way the Braves partnered with someone in Cobb. So, you could say that the fact something is happing now, AFTER the lots were sold to Georgia State, shows the Braves were right and Fulton/Atlanta was the problem.

4. Hindsight is 20/20 but if the Braves were offered an opportunity to buy the lots and stadium for some portion of the $30M that Fulton/Atlanta got out of Georgia State there is a good chance the Braves would still be there. They probably would have paid more. The Braves leaving de-valued the land forcing the sale. Fulton/Atlanta never took this into consideration in the negotiations, the Braves did.

BTW, I say all of this as a critic of the Braves moving to Cobb. I think in the long run it will prove to be shortsighted. That doesn't mean I can't understand the reasons they left.
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  #3895  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 4:15 PM
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Agree. There was considerably more in the history between these two organizations than just the lots ownership, but we'll leave it at that.
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  #3896  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 4:52 PM
PhunkyPho PhunkyPho is offline
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Originally Posted by daharris80 View Post
There are two sides to everything. Here are my views:

1. The parking lots were never owned by the Braves so the idea that the Braves are at fault for them not being developed is laughable. Can't develop something you don't own.

2. The deal broke down over control. The Braves wanted it. Fulton/Atlanta wanted it. Fulton/Atlanta had competition with Cobb. The Braves decided to go with the government partner who would allow them to control the development. This is where the use of tax dollar issue gets put into play and there are sound governmental reasons why Fulton/Atlanta wanted to keep control. There are also sound business reasons why the Braves would want it. (Point number 1 above that Fulton/Atlanta never met earlier promises is one of them.)

3. The fact that what is getting built now looks like what was proposed earlier does not show that the Braves were the problem. Remember, the Braves argument was that they needed to control the development/own the lots to make it happen. How is it happening? Fulton/Atlanta sold the lots to Georgia State who owns/controls the development and is partnering with someone in much the same way the Braves partnered with someone in Cobb. So, you could say that the fact something is happing now, AFTER the lots were sold to Georgia State, shows the Braves were right and Fulton/Atlanta was the problem.

4. Hindsight is 20/20 but if the Braves were offered an opportunity to buy the lots and stadium for some portion of the $30M that Fulton/Atlanta got out of Georgia State there is a good chance the Braves would still be there. They probably would have paid more. The Braves leaving de-valued the land forcing the sale. Fulton/Atlanta never took this into consideration in the negotiations, the Braves did.

BTW, I say all of this as a critic of the Braves moving to Cobb. I think in the long run it will prove to be shortsighted. That doesn't mean I can't understand the reasons they left.
How dare you use common sense and a well thought out argument.
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  #3897  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by scania View Post
...I won't say anymore.
Please.
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  #3898  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 5:57 PM
Tuckerman Tuckerman is offline
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With regard to the big hole that is the CODA foundation - they now appear to be putting in some type of raft foundation to support a corner area of the future building. They have removed an enormous amount of dirt so far.
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  #3899  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 8:53 PM
jsvh jsvh is offline
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Originally Posted by daharris80 View Post
...
You certainly can control land you do not own. And the Braves did. Land leases are quite common. For example, all those MARTA TOD projects are being built on land owned by MARTA.

The problem was not control of the land. The Braves had control of the land. And the city was fine selling the land to the Braves if they wanted to pay for it. But they Braves didn't want to pay for it.

Heck, the city was still working towards getting the Braves all the "control" they asked for including their BS limits on the number restaurants in the area, but the Braves announced their surprise Cobb move before the deadline they had given the city. They didn't really care about the control. They didn't even wait to see what the city would offer.

The problem was money, the Braves wanted a larger tax handout pure and simple.

Last edited by jsvh; Jul 1, 2017 at 9:22 PM.
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  #3900  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 9:41 PM
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scania scania is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
You certainly can control land you do not own. And the Braves did. Land leases are quite common. For example, all those MARTA TOD projects are being built on land owned by MARTA.

The problem was not control of the land. The Braves had control of the land. And the city was fine selling the land to the Braves if they wanted to pay for it. But they Braves didn't want to pay for it.

Heck, the city was still working towards getting the Braves all the "control" they asked for including their BS limits on the number restaurants in the area, but the Braves announced their surprise Cobb move before the deadline they had given the city. They didn't really care about the control. They didn't even wait to see what the city would offer.

The problem was money, the Braves wanted a larger tax handout pure and simple.
Wrong
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