Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

Guess what! it's crazy expensive surprise surprise
Not to mention nowhere near Alpine mansions

http://www.teamprice.com/austonian-condo.php

ACK! Austin is done. I just didn't know how done it was. That's San Fran pricing from three years ago. It is, however, a beautiful example of what kind of pricing is needed to support towers like that. Rents at the Austonian are approaching $5psf and I'm seeing $900-1000psf in condo sales. The very highest rents in SLC are approaching $2.50psf. So, with our weekly "why don't we wave our magic wand and create skyscrapers!" thread, just think of that. We are at less than half of what Austin is collecting and that's why we aren't seeing high rises. I personally hope we never, ever, ever see prices like that. That's bubble territory for an inland city IMHO.

[delts145]

Well, you have to consider that Texas is a country unto itself, and Austin is its Capital. There's a lot of money flowing into it these days just by virtue of it being the seat of Texas power. Your completely right though as far as the $ per sq. foot needing to rise. Anyone have any idea of what the building costs are in Austin vs. Salt Lake City?

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Marvland

ACK! Austin is done. I just didn't know how done it was. That's San Fran pricing from three years ago. It is, however, a beautiful example of what kind of pricing is needed to support towers like that. Rents at the Austonian are approaching $5psf and I'm seeing $900-1000psf in condo sales. The very highest rents in SLC are approaching $2.50psf. So, with our weekly "why don't we wave our magic wand and create skyscrapers!" thread, just think of that. We are at less than half of what Austin is collecting and that's why we aren't seeing high rises. I personally hope we never, ever, ever see prices like that. That's bubble territory for an inland city IMHO.

If you want those views you can get them in SLC within 5 mins of downtown from ground level. Above Capitol Hill you are easily 500' above downtown. You get the view with 5000 square feet and a 3 car garage. They just don't have that kind of geography in Texas.

[StevenF]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

If you want those views you can get them in SLC within 5 mins of downtown from ground level. Above Capitol Hill you are easily 500' above downtown. You get the view with 5000 square feet and a 3 car garage. They just don't have that kind of geography in Texas.

I think this is exactly the reason why we don't get much of the rich living in downtown SLC. Way better view from the side of the mountain and we currently have plenty of that available along the Wasatch Front.

[Jiffy]

Originally Posted by StevenF

I think this is exactly the reason why we don't get much of the rich living in downtown SLC. Way better view from the side of the mountain and we currently have plenty of that available along the Wasatch Front.

It's not just simply about the views why people live in a tall building, a lot of people love the fact they can walk right out of their main lobby into a big city, and frankly there is absolutely almost nothing that feels like a big city in Utah. Downtown Salt Lake has a very long ways to go.

I'm going to have to agree with ajiuO, that hotel looks so dumb sitting in what should be a downtown area. Either get something more urban or don't come at all, how stupid would it be if the built that exact hotel in Austin, Seattle, Denver, or even Los Angeles. It's pretty pathetic.

What we need is more real developers who can really see the potential of this place. We need people to visit Utah because they love the city also, and not just because the mountains look pretty and they are fun. Let's face it, nobody would ever visit Salt Lake if it wasn't for the mountians, it's the only great thing this city has to offer that isn't in every other city. We should attract big city people as well as the outdoor type.

[delts145]

Very much agree

Originally Posted by PhilipDDG

EPdesign, you do a great job of finding the angles among buildings that help accentuate the density. Very nice. Your love for your city really shows.

image resize service






















safe upload site
Pics By EPdesign

.



.

[EPdesign]

One more :-)


facebook photos hosting

[airhero]

Originally Posted by JMK

Wait. This isn't being built in La Verkin?

What a terrible design. Looking at it makes the words puny and weak come to mind.

[airhero]

Since we've been on the topic of road revamps, what does everyone think of turning Main Street into a pedestrian/transit mall? It's basically useless for car traffic already.

Also this is a long shot, but I've always wanted a diagonal street running from Liberty Park to Washington Square.

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by airhero

Since we've been on the topic of road revamps, what does everyone think of turning Main Street into a pedestrian/transit mall? It's basically useless for car traffic already.

Also this is a long shot, but I've always wanted a diagonal street running from Liberty Park to Washington Square.

Like Denver? I like it.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by airhero

Since we've been on the topic of road revamps, what does everyone think of turning Main Street into a pedestrian/transit mall? It's basically useless for car traffic already.

Also this is a long shot, but I've always wanted a diagonal street running from Liberty Park to Washington Square.

I've been thinking this for a very long time. It would completely transform our city. Just need to get Priskos/Bamberger/Bernalfo etc to do something with all of their buildings. They are literally holding the city core back.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by airhero

Since we've been on the topic of road revamps, what does everyone think of turning Main Street into a pedestrian/transit mall? It's basically useless for car traffic already.

Also this is a long shot, but I've always wanted a diagonal street running from Liberty Park to Washington Square.

The thing that confuses me is that the city and UTA are very receptive to the idea of a transit mall on 400W north of North Temple... but 400W is a thoroughfare with little street-engagement and pedestrian activity. Apparently they want to do a transit mall for a road that should have BRT... keep in mind, 400W is one of the "brigham young" wide SLC streets. Its also lined with driveways. Main Street is the ideal candidate for a transit mall because it 1. only has one driveway between 400S and South Temple (access to zions bank broadway, not including market street which can be accessed from west temple), 2. is on or parallel to most of the major transit routes through downtown, and 3. is already teeming with pedestrian activity.

Ideally, Main Street would be fairly easy to turn into a transit mall at low cost, or the city could create something a little bit more similar to 16th street in Denver. Add trees, remove curbs, add barriers between TRAX and the roadway, more mid-block crossings, and bus stops. Move all bus traffic from state street to main street.

My only concern is that because the church decided to remove main street between North and South Temple, there isn't really a clear path for the buses to take to get to the North Temple bus corridor. Maybe they could eliminate the bus lanes on North Temple and move them to South Temple? At what point does bus service start to duplicate TRAX though...

[delts145]

I like that there is some auto access to Main. It's not a lot, but it gives the street a fuller vibe. Personally, I think Main is much prettier now than many of the downtown major thoroughfares throughout the West, including the one mentioned. That, and the fact it is only getting better as more projects come online each year, and it becomes even denser, and also expands it's length southward.


Salt Lake City just needs to keep doing what it's already doing with the inner blocks. That's where I would prefer to see more of the pedestrian only walkways.

Few if any downtowns have the kind of canvas potential that Salt Lake City has, when it comes to inner blocks. Other city's can only dream about multiple uses in their cores like mass transit down the middle of its CBD streets, to include bicycle right of ways, along with multiple use mega wide sidewalks. SLC should just keep producing more pedestrian streets down the centers of the blocks . Take them diagonally from the corners, or from the center straight through, or winding...whatever.

Whether it's City Creek, the ongoing extension of Regent, Gallivan, the ongoing remake of Gateway, Temple Sq. and all of its surrounding campus, the remake of Library Square, Hardware Village, Phase I of the Richie Group etc. etc., just keep rolling out those block breaking projects. Frankly, other than a few examples in the major cities of the east coast or perhaps San Fran. there's not an awful lot that I dream of emulating around the country for Salt Lake City as far as street engagement goes.

I think Europe holds a lot more of what Salt Lake City should use as an example. Los Angeles is spending billions to remake it's three Central City retail centers. It has already become pretty apparent to me, that while definitely an improvement, neither the Macy's Center Downtown, The Beverly Center or Century City's new lavish makeover is going to emerge nearly as stunning as City Creek.

Of all the streets along the Wasatch Front, I think State screams the loudest for needing BRT, and as soon as possible!! Between 21st S. and No. Temple, BRT should be a top shelf priority.

Very enthusiastic about the ideas kicking around for a Library Sq. up do. I continue to be impressed by the creative citizenry in Salt Lake City.

[Jiffy]

Instead of dreaming of becoming a city like Denver why don't you all just move there? Instead of wishing our downtown was like Denvers why don't we try and be our own unique downtown, I agree Denver has a fantastic downtown, but we want to have our own identity here. We should want projects that are unique to Salt Lake, where visitors can have a unique experience that you can't have anywhere else. People love Denver and Seattle because it's a fun experience that you can't get everywhere, so I understand using them as a role model for our downtown. But don't you want to have a separate identity from them?

But honestly could Salt Lake even support a pedestrian/transit mall? There isn't that many people living downtown and compared to many other cities the nightlife isn't that great, yet. And the biggest issue here is, is that there are already two malls downtown. How many more stores can downtown even support and you will be stretching the amount of people who go downtown to shop between three different malls. Why does 16th street in Denver work so well? Well its because there is a lot of people who live in the city core there and lots of visitors to their main city. Plus the next closest mall is over three miles away. And that mall tends to be a little to pricey for the average joe.

[delts145]

For pure aesthetics Temple Square and it's huge campus already blows the doors off of most urban centers. Same goes for City Creek. Frankly, for just the "pretty" factor at street level, where Salt Lake City has developed recently or redeveloped, it already outshines many of it's Western counterparts. It also hits waaay above it's weight in the performing arts, if your not into the outdoor lifestyle so much. Of course, everyone already seems to understand that drop dead gorgeous, accessible in minutes scenery and outdoor lifestyle is a given from downtown. You could even say that the mountains are downtown adj. If you had two weeks to cover all of the activities within ridiculously easy access to downtown Salt Lake, it wouldn't be nearly enough time. It would be like telling someone that they have a couple of days to cover the theme parks in Orlando. I would say that's more than enough separate identity, and it's only getting better.

[Jiffy]

[QUOTE=delts145;7840416]For pure aesthetics Temple Square and it's huge campus already blows the doors off of most urban centers. Same goes for City Creek. Frankly, for just the "pretty" factor at street level, where Salt Lake City has developed recently or redeveloped, it already outshines many of it's Western counterparts. It also hits waaay above it's weight in the performing arts, if your not into the outdoor lifestyle so much. Of course, everyone already seems to understand that drop dead gorgeous, accessible in minutes scenery and outdoor lifestyle is a given from downtown. You could even say that the mountains are downtown adj. If you had two weeks to cover all of the activities within ridiculously easy access to downtown Salt Lake, it wouldn't be nearly enough time. It would be like telling someone that they have a couple of days to cover the theme parks in Orlando. I would say that's more than enough separate identity, and it's only getting better.[/QUOTE

Enough with the mountains, this is a development page. It's annoying how much some of you bring them into the conversation. People don't go downtown for the mountains, you go to the mountains to go to the mountains. We are talking about how to improve downtown, and mountains have Nothing to do with that. I don't go to downtown Orlando for a roller coaster. I don't go to downtown Los Angeles for a beach. And I don't go to downtown Seattle for Mt. St Helen's or to downtown Dallas to see a long horn. And when I agree that Temple Square is a very unique and fun experience, I just don't want that being half our downtown. I want to experience other big city sites and lifestyle. I can explore just about everything in downtown Salt Lake in about a half a day. I want more vibrancy, more street level activity. And more tourist interest for a big city experience.

And I love the fact downtown Salt Lake is growing and someday hopefully it will hit puberty, I'm just going to have to respectfully disagree with you on your opinion that it already outshines many of its Western counterparts. In example, San Fran, Seattle, Denver, San Diego, Portland... All much more ahead and much more of an awwing experience. There is so much more to do, So much more impressive, and so much more of an urban vibe.

One day I hope Salt Lake gets there

[airhero]

Salt Lake is already unique in many ways. Huge streets/blocks, headquarters of a religion, proximity to the mountains are things, among others, that no other sizeable US city has to the extent SL does. Those are all things that can be exploited more fully in the future, and they will (except for the religion thing, hard to see how that can be exploited). As long as we don't destroy what's already unique about the city, I don't think there is any harm in doing what other cities have done, and even less harm in discussing it, the pros/cons whatever they are.

On top of that, the reason you would create the corridor in the first place isn't because Denver did it, but we'd be doing it for the same reason Denver did. It gives other modes of transportation more freedom, particularly those on foot or bicycle. And since there isn't much of a reason to drive on Main Street, it makes some sense to just kill the auto traffic altogether.

The reason I was thinking of this today is when I bike to work there's a lot of obstacles and close calls. All of them are auto related, so those obstacles basically disappear when the car does.

[airportvids]

Salt Lake could start by building something that is taller than 420 FT.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by Jiffy

Enough with the mountains, this is a development page. It's annoying how much some of you bring them into the conversation. People don't go downtown for the mountains, you go to the mountains to go to the mountains. We are talking about how to improve downtown, and mountains have Nothing to do with that. I don't go to downtown Orlando for a roller coaster. I don't go to downtown Los Angeles for a beach. And I don't go to downtown Seattle for Mt. St Helen's or to downtown Dallas to see a long horn.

Gotta be honest this is ridiculous. Many people who visit downtown LA would never visit were it not for the beach. Many people would never visit downtown Orlando were it not for Disneyworld and Universal Studios. A lot of people would never have been to those cities, or moved to those cities, without the things found outside of them. I know that's why I've ended up in LA or Orlando. A city's surroundings are important to its attractiveness. Salt Lake should push its mountain city image. Why? It would bring more people. Not just to the mountains, but downtown.

[Jiffy]

Originally Posted by airhero

Gotta be honest this is ridiculous. Many people who visit downtown LA would never visit were it not for the beach. Many people would never visit downtown Orlando were it not for Disneyworld and Universal Studios. A lot of people would never have been to those cities, or moved to those cities, without the things found outside of them. I know that's why I've ended up in LA or Orlando. A city's surroundings are important to its attractiveness. Salt Lake should push its mountain city image. Why? It would bring more people. Not just to the mountains, but downtown.

Yes but you guys always talk about all these mountain things like your trying to prove it to someone, and we all understand exactly where the mountains are and what they bring to the table. No need to always talk about them and go on about them, we should be talking about the development of the city, and to be honest, talking about mountains on here isn't all that interesting or fun. And while yes, that's why people go to those cities, and why people visit Salt Lake, that doesn't mean theres going to be much of an interest to going downtown because of those attractions. People go to the down towns when they are in the city visiting for mountains/roller coasters/beach when the day is over and people want to go to a bar or walk a big city. Mountains have nothing to do with that part. Heck, a convention brings me to Indianapolis every year but that doesn't mean they have a downtown that I'm interested in visting. I visit Los Angeles every couple years for the beach and disneyland every year also but if it wasn't for the attractions they have downtown there is no way I would waste my time in their downtown. Same with every other city, and to be honest, downtown Salt Lake is highly disappointing, and I feel we need to change that. People come here for the mountains but there isn't a whole lot drawing them into downtown.

We need to do more when it comes to our city. There are some parts that surround downtown Salt Lake that I feel most people wouldn't feel comfortable staying in. For example east and south of the jazz stadium. We need to shine more as a city. We are completely overshadowed by Colorado when it comes to almost everything. So maybe, just maybe people will take us more serious if we had a real vibrant world class city, where half our tallest buildings aren't church buildings.