Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2 - Page 473

Acajack · #**9441** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 3:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandage

What's the Anglophone media saying?

What difference does it make?

esquire · #**9442** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 3:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

^^ the Skydome was sold to Rogers for $25 million ten years ago, who knows how much its worth even now

IGF all said and done after repairs cost $384 million btw..

The cost of building Skydome was $570 million in 1980s dollars. How much it sold for years later doesn't have any bearing on the cost of construction. They can clearly handle large stadium projects in Toronto.

SaskScraper · #**9443** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 3:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

I wouldn't call TD place an exception. It's a 50 year old stadium that was only half-rebuilt (forced to) since the FIFA women's world cup lead to a bunch of cracks in the structure.

Yikes!!

my mistake in thinking TD Place had turned a corner into fully complete..

..Toronto clearly has a fiscal budgeting problem though if they have to sell things for cheap..

esquire · #**9444** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 3:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

..Toronto clearly has a fiscal budgeting problem though if they have to sell things for cheap..

Maybe, but the point is they got it built and I'm sure they could do it again if they had to.

Acajack · #**9445** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 3:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46

Will that be just to maintain the structure as-is? Or is this upgrades and whatnot?.

In addition to the roof, I've read they will redo the lighting and sound systems, replace all the seats, redo the press and other boxes, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46

I'm surprised that the city of Montreal (maybe the province too?) is ponying up for this. I thought the Big O was still toxic enough that most governments are hoping it would magically disappear and relieve them of their white elephant.

Yeah but polls show a huge percentage of Quebecers (in the 90s%) are opposed to tearing down the stadium. Note that tearing it down would be more expensive than renovating I think.

SaskScraper · #**9446** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 4:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Maybe, but the point is they got it built and I'm sure they could do it again if they had to.

when you say 'they' do you really mean 'Canada'

wave46 · #**9447** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 4:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

Yikes!!

my mistake in thinking TD Place had turned a corner into fully complete..

..Toronto clearly has a fiscal budgeting problem though if they have to sell things for cheap..

Like (pretty much) every other major stadium project, Skydome was a boondoggle. The land it sits on is probably worth at least $25 million, though.

What you pay for things and what you can sell them for are 2 different concepts. I doubt any big-league football or baseball stadium could be sold to a private entity for what it cost to build. They're chronic money-losers.

A hockey arena, on the other hand....

wave46 · #**9448** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 4:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

when you say 'they' do you really mean 'Canada'

Technically, the province of Ontario - that's who paid for it.

wave46 · #**9449** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 4:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

In addition to the roof, I've read they will redo the lighting and sound systems, replace all the seats, redo the press and other boxes, etc.

Yeah but polls show a huge percentage of Quebecers (in the 90s%) are opposed to tearing down the stadium. Note that tearing it down would be more expensive than renovating I think.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess.

esquire · #**9450** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 4:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

when you say 'they' do you really mean 'Canada'

No. I'm not aware of any federal government contributions to Skydome. As far as I know it was all provinicial/regional/municipal funding, along with the private sector partners.

As for a new stadium... who knows. But the feds haven't demonstrated much of an inclination to contribute to new stadiums in recent years. Maybe they'd chip in for a new World Cup or Olympic venue, but I doubt Ottawa would be kicking in any money for a purely MLB or NFL stadium.

SaskScraper · #**9451** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 4:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

No. I'm not aware of any federal government contributions to Skydome. As far as I know it was all provinicial/regional/municipal funding, along with the private sector partners.

As for a new stadium... who knows. But the feds haven't demonstrated much of an inclination to contribute to new stadiums in recent years. Maybe they'd chip in for a new World Cup or Olympic venue, but I doubt Ottawa would be kicking in any money for a purely MLB or NFL stadium.

Quote:

..paid for by the federal government, Ontario provincial government, the City of Toronto, and a large consortium of corporations,..with the government paying the largest percentage of the tab..

..directly from wiki page.

In other words, government including Federal government were the biggest loser when Skydome was sold for fraction of the cost to build.

so now you know

Bandage · #**9452** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 4:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

I wouldn't call TD place an exception. It's a 50 year old stadium that was only half-rebuilt (forced to) since the FIFA women's world cup lead to a bunch of cracks in the structure.

and now it looks like a giant bag of stale hickory sticks was dumped along the shores of the Rideau canal

esquire · #**9453** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 4:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

..directly from wiki page.

In other words, government including Federal government were the biggest loser when Skydome was sold for fraction of the cost to build.

so now you know

Fair enough, but you implied that Ottawa gifted it to Toronto:

Quote:

when you say 'they' do you really mean 'Canada'

The federal government was apparently but one of several backers of the project. So Toronto got it done before, and I have no reason to doubt that they could get it done again... if they had to.

SaskScraper · #**9454** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 4:25 PM**

^^ Federal Government lost all money's it contributed to Skydome project,
Ottawa -> Toronto -> Rogers Communications

wave46 · #**9455** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 4:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

^^ Federal Government lost all money's it contributed to Skydome project,
Ottawa -> Toronto -> Rogers Communications

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

If it is that that stadiums are bad investments by governments, then yes, I agree with you. They're terrible for taxpayers and the benefits are often hugely overstated. There's whole piles of literature on this.

If your argument is that the city of Toronto (or government in general) couldn't do it again, I disagree. It could do it, whether it should is a much more important question. The city does not need another stadium.

It could build an analogous stadium to NMS or IGF, but it would be a waste of money. If you think that New Mosaic Stadium is great, hey, all the power to you, but it required government funds.

TorontoDrew · #**9456** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 4:54 PM**

It would be much easier now for Toronto to get a private investor behind a new stadium over government support.

WhipperSnapper · #**9457** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 5:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

You're commenting on NMS like you've actually been to it? The fact that Toronto has no chance at building stadiums half as nice as NMS & IGF just goes to show how under-equipped for sport the GTA really is. Besides TD Place, the farther east you go in Canada the worse it gets so don't be too hard on yourselves though 6ix

Stop being so pathetic. I don't see anyone suggesting Toronto has a nicer football stadium than IGF or NMS. Some like yourself needed a reality check that these are tiny and bare bones compared to the new NFL Stadiums that apparently are no longer limited to select markets.

Saying that Toronto can't build a stadium half as nice as either of those two is ridiculous. It's simply not a priority. In any case, TFC is easily half as good a stadium. Where it falls short the most is in its Frankenstein aesthetics. Neither IGF or NMS are architectural masterpieces. They are merely above par (see Hamilton)

SaskScraper · #**9458** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 5:05 PM**

^^ there there..
like I said Toronto could be worse off.. but barely
(Regina is looking to maybe sell it's old stadium piece by piece if you ask nicely.. just saying TO

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

If it is that that stadiums are bad investments by governments, then yes, I agree with you. They're terrible for taxpayers and the benefits are often hugely overstated. There's whole piles of literature on this.
If your argument is that the city of Toronto (or government in general) couldn't do it again, I disagree. It could do it, whether it should is a much more important question. The city does not need another stadium.
It could build an analogous stadium to NMS or IGF, but it would be a waste of money. If you think that New Mosiac Stadium is great, hey, all the power to you, but it required government funds.

NMS got zero Federal Government funds.. you spelled Mosaic wrong btw..

WhipperSnapper · #**9459** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 5:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

^^ the Skydome was sold to Rogers for $25 million ten years ago, who knows how much its worth even now

IGF all said and done after repairs cost $384 million btw..

Yeah, that's how stadiums go. They are money pits depreciating by more than half their construction costs before they are even completed. They have an extremely limited usage. That's why sport teams want the lucrative management contracts and leave ownership to the public.

WhipperSnapper · #**9460** Posted **Jun 13, 2017, 5:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

^^ there there..
like I said Toronto could be worse off.. but barely

NMS got zero Federal Government funds.. you spelled Mosaic wrong btw..

Don't worry. Toronto is a big market. Football isn't the only sport around in these parts. Toronto has a long list of spectator facilities for many different sporting events.

Saskatoon punches above its weight for sports facilities. Obviously, sports are a greater priority there. Is that your point? You could have presented much better.