Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[VANRIDERFAN]

FFS people Winnipeg and Regina have just opened new football stadiums that 15 years ago were not even on the horizon. I'm happy that I can sit in a couple of stadiums with individual seating, cup holders, modern bathrooms and not be cut in half by the prairie winds.
As for the US stadiums? Well that Merica for you with 10 times the population you are going to get a potential 10 times the stadium. If the Toronto folks want to shit on our ability to build nice buildings for our domestic league fill your boots. Just remember all your US teams (Jays, Raps and TFC) are just afterthoughts south of the border.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Come on, none are even close. And BC place while looking very nice these days is way too small to host an NFL Team.

Minimum seating for NFL is 50 000. Obviously BC Place meets that requirement. If god forbid, the CFL were to fold, Vancouver would certainly get strong consideration for an NFL team.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

FFS people Winnipeg and Regina have just opened new football stadiums that 15 years ago were not even on the horizon. I'm happy that I can sit in a couple of stadiums with individual seating, cup holders, modern bathrooms and not be cut in half by the prairie winds.
As for the US stadiums? Well that Merica for you with 10 times the population you are going to get a potential 10 times the stadium. If the Toronto folks want to shit on our ability to build nice buildings for our domestic league fill your boots. Just remember all your US teams (Jays, Raps and TFC) are just afterthoughts south of the border.

I was with you till the last sentence. A message gets lost when you resort to jabs; especially ones that veer from reality. The Jays and Raptors are Canadian teams, playing Canadian sports, in US based leagues. Whether Americans pay attention to Toronto based teams is neither here nor there. Americans having a blind spot to anything outside their country is just the way things are. It has no bearing on my interest/support for those teams.

[logan5]

The new Las Vegas stadium will have a capacity of only 65 000 people. In smaller markets, a 55 - 65 000 seat stadium is more appropriate.

[Dalreg]

Calling all American wannabe's (Toronto Folks).

Time to brag yourselves up, want to look good for that potential NFL expansion team in your flash stadium....

Wait a minute Roger's? nope.
BMO, nope?
Varsity stadium?
York university stadium?

Dam, somewhere Toronto must have a real football stadium?

Once again a new stadium opens up in Canada, and the good old residents of Toronto have to beat their chests and put it down. Only way they can brag themselves up I guess.

[JHikka]

K, the whole Toronto vs. The World motif of this thread is going to stop. The needless length-measuring that goes on in this thread sometimes is astounding.

Thanks.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by logan5

Minimum seating for NFL is 50 000. Obviously BC Place meets that requirement. If god forbid, the CFL were to fold, Vancouver would certainly get strong consideration for an NFL team.

Minimum seating for new NFL stadiums is 60,000 +. IT hasn't been 50,000 for 30 years...recently replaced stadiums like Indy's were basically grandfathered in from an earlier era (mid - 80s). Oakland proposed a new 50- 55,000 seat stadium a few years ago and it was ultimately rejected by the NFL for being too small.

BC Place is a great stadium and imo is the best in terms of quality across the entire country but it has several flaws to ever be considered for an NFL team.

1. the above-mentioned stadium capacity which is 6,000 short of the NFL minimum of 60,000 for new stadiums/markets. Given the limitations of the building there is no conceivable way to expand capacity by such a significant amount.

2. flawed and outdated distribution of seats...one complete bowl on top of another with over 50% of the seats in the corner endzone or back of endzone. This was the trend with NFL stadiums in the 70s and 80s. Since then there has been a conscious effort to place more seats between the goal lines with fewer or no seats in the upper deck endzones replaced by glass walls or giant tv screens. For recent examples of this see new Vikings Stadium, new Atlanta Stadium, Cowboy Stadium, Seahawks Stadium

3. An inadequate amount of club seats (only 1500) and suites (approx. 50). Newer NFL stadiums require 100+ suites typically (ideal would be 150 or more) and at least 7000 - 8000 club seats). There is some room at suite level to add a few dozen more suites but still too low to meet NFL standards. There is no room to add sufficient club seats and lounges at BC Place given the limitations of the building.

Those are the 3 big flaws imo. That doesn't even get into the issues of demographics and median incomes in Vancouver, neither of which is sufficient given housing prices and the origins of many Vancouver residents..countries who had little or no interest in football.

Basketball or baseball would have a better chance at success provided for the latter a sufficient 35,000 seat, $500 million facility could somehow be financed.

[Horus]

I didn't realize the NFL had committed to coming to Canada. Why did we foolishly build all of these appropriately-CFL-sized stadiums?

[Franco401]

These pages have been a breathtakingly painful shitshow only this forum could conjure up. What started as a fun, lighthearted joke discussion about how great both NMS and IGF both are has turned, as usual, into vitriolic hatred of "every city except mine". Big city users shit on others basically just for living in small cities. The small-city users, holders of the moral high ground, somehow manage to be even shittier in their responses.

I can't believe how hard it is to have a friendly discussion.

[FutureSmith]

So how does everyone see the FIFA World Cup portioned out (assuming the joint NA bid works out?) For sure they'll want Toronto Vancouver and Montreal to be host cities by virtue of being the 3 largest. BMO can accommodate 40K with temp seating, so they're in. BC Place (assuming they can temp. convert to grass) would be in as well. But how do you include Quebec? Olympic stadium would need a butt load of money just to bring it up to code so the question is, do you dump MORE money into that black hole, or build a new CFL quality stadium? Percival Molson may have met league standards when the recent reno was completed, but league standards have changed dramatically in the last decade. Realistically, I don't see how the Alouettes can compete with these new venues. And if the Feds pay for a new venue in Quebec would that necessitate funding a new stadium for Calgary ( possible - given that Cowtown might also welcome the Winter Olympics in 2026?)

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by FutureSmith

So how does everyone see the FIFA World Cup portioned out (assuming the joint NA bid works out?) For sure they'll want Toronto Vancouver and Montreal to be host cities by virtue of being the 3 largest. BMO can accommodate 40K with temp seating, so they're in. BC Place (assuming they can temp. convert to grass) would be in as well. But how do you include Quebec?

It's not going to be a popular opinion but: you don't have to. Toronto and Vancouver could very well be the only two hosting cities in Canada in a joint three-way bid, depending on how the matches and schedules play out.

I can't see any combination of scenarios where Montreal ends up with a World Cup quality venue by the time 2026 rolls around. If anything, I would almost wager that Ottawa's Lansdowne Place would be ahead of whatever stadium is used in Montreal on the basis that Ottawa has a stadium ready for temporary expansion with a significant history of hosting FIFA events and Canadian national teams in the past.

People often forget that at the end of the day the CSA currently picks and chooses which locations the national teams play at, and outside of the Men's team match in Montreal tomorrow (at Saputo, not Olympic) I can't recall Montreal having a stellar hosting history for previous events. CSA primarily uses BMO and BC Place for their national team matches and I imagine those two are the venues selected for a World Cup bid.

[Acajack]

The Big O is slated for major renos by that time, World Cup or not.

What facility are the feds going to pay for in Quebec City?

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by FutureSmith

So how does everyone see the FIFA World Cup portioned out (assuming the joint NA bid works out?) For sure they'll want Toronto Vancouver and Montreal to be host cities by virtue of being the 3 largest. BMO can accommodate 40K with temp seating, so they're in. BC Place (assuming they can temp. convert to grass) would be in as well. But how do you include Quebec? Olympic stadium would need a butt load of money just to bring it up to code so the question is, do you dump MORE money into that black hole, or build a new CFL quality stadium? Percival Molson may have met league standards when the recent reno was completed, but league standards have changed dramatically in the last decade. Realistically, I don't see how the Alouettes can compete with these new venues. And if the Feds pay for a new venue in Quebec would that necessitate funding a new stadium for Calgary ( possible - given that Cowtown might also welcome the Winter Olympics in 2026?)

Three cities for a handful of games seems like too many. We all know that Toronto ​and Vancouver will get the games, whether or not they are the two best choices. If there was a renovated Olympic in play I'd argue it should be Vancouver and Montreal over Toronto, but the types of renovations requires make sure that's a pipe dream.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The Big O is slated for major renos by that time, World Cup or not.

What facility are the feds going to pay for in Quebec City?

None. The last time Quebec City built a sporting venue, the feds wouldn't touch it with a 20 foot pole when solicited by the provincial and municipal governments.

Again, the Big O is also a mess-terpeice that no one wants to spend money on, because it will likely only will be used for a few FIFA games and then left empty. I can't imagine it getting anything other than the absolute minimum required to keep the facility open.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

None. The last time Quebec City built a sporting venue, the feds wouldn't touch it with a 20 foot pole when solicited by the provincial and municipal governments.

Again, the Big O is also a mess-terpeice that no one wants to spend money on, because it will likely only will be used for a few FIFA games and then left empty. I can't imagine it getting anything other than the absolute minimum required to keep the facility open.

It's been widely covered in the francophone media in recent months that the Big O will see about 400M in renovations over the next 15 years or so. On top of that there will be another 150M for the roof.

[Bandage]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's been widely covered in the francophone media in recent months that the Big O will see about 400M in renovations over the next 15 years or so. On top of that there will be another 150M for the roof.

What's the Anglophone media saying?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's been widely covered in the francophone media in recent months that the Big O will see about 400M in renovations over the next 15 years or so. On top of that there will be another 150M for the roof.

Will that be just to maintain the structure as-is? Or is this upgrades and whatnot?

I'm surprised that the city of Montreal (maybe the province too?) is ponying up for this. I thought the Big O was still toxic enough that most governments are hoping it would magically disappear and relieve them of their white elephant.

[FutureSmith]

Realistically if the federal government is paying into hosting this, then I don't see how you could exclude Quebec - that's just how it goes.

The few bid details we have specify TEN GAMES for Canada. With the new format of over 40 teams pools are supposed to be only 3 teams. That means 3 games per pool. That would amount to three pools of three games apiece plus (I'm assuming) a Semifinal game equals ten games. That would necessitate three or four venues. Vancouver Toronto and Calgary/Edmonton could each host a pool with the semifinal in Montreal (as it is currently the only stadium in Canada with a capacity over 60,000.)

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Just remember all your US teams (Jays, Raps and TFC) are just afterthoughts south of the border.

What's the CFL? And what's a Regina? That's what an average American would think. I don't think anybody was shitting on them (stadums), they are NOT NFL quality though and the CFL is a sport that can't compete in large markets.

The Jays are not an after thought in markets like Texas or Seattle where in one they are hated and the other they fill the stands in ways their own team can't pull off. If Seattle didn't take not they wouldn't have doubled ticket prices last weekend for the Jays games.It would be hard for somebody in Washington to say the Jays are an after thought. TFC, I'm sure you are correct, I doubt many people can name half the teams or where they play from, the Leafs are well know being part of the original six but you're wrong about the Raptors. Being the only Canadian team with some of the loudest fans at home and that travel they have left their mark in the NBA circles. And like the Jays, almost any city the Raptors play attracts not only traveling fans but Canadian ex-pats that show up in droves.

You say Torontonians are here to shit on 2 stadiums when the reality is anytime a post is made from a Toronto forumer that doesn't fall in line with others it's a green light for many of you to "shit" on Toronto. Go ahead, as Canada's numero uno at so many levels we're used to it.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Acajack

When did this become about NFL stadiums? We all know they are palatial...

I knew about how they were bankrupting states and lower districts but, this list of facilities is still shocking to me.

Oh Indy. 10 to 15 years behind the times.