Calgary International Airport II

[hoboman27]

Originally Posted by Lancaster

I'm curious if WS entertains putting their widebody base at YVR? If it's true that they'd perhaps move to ST for alliance, the following ST carriers service YVR...

Aeromexico
Air France
China Airlines
China Eastern
China Southern
Delta
KLM
Korean
Xiamen

Compared to YYC...
Aeromexico (starting in June)
Delta
KLM

It's obvious that YYZ will be WS's eastern Canadian hub, but I'd be interested to see how the west shakes out. I imagine the worry at YVR might be IF WS bases at YYC and joins ST, maybe a lot of those ST airlines start hubbing at YYC since YVR is almost full. However, YVR has the O&D asian market hands down. Cage?

YVR is pretty much at capacity at the moment, but they are looking ahead with ambitious plans for expansion. They are also in a much better financial position compared to Calgary, and can offer whatever WestJet might ask for. Though it comes down to timing.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by wave46

Is the lack of commonality between the 787-8 and -9/-10 the reason for Boeing's dropping of the model? It seems to be a popular plane with ~420 orders.

Boeing gave a free upgrade to the -9 as part of the delay and performance compensation package. That's why AC and all other early purchase airlines upgraded to the largest model.

Also, this is the first time Boeing has released a stretch widebody so close to the initial model in service date. It is common for the stretch to canabolize the initial model sales.

[Bigtime]

Today is the inaugural flight of WestJet's YYC-Nashville route:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/WJA1426/history/20170504/1600Z/CYYC/KBNA

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Acey

It's more the fact that the -9 is a better airplane and Boeing knows it.

I've been on the -8 a couple of times (United and AC) but tomorrow will be my first time on the -9 (also AC). Looking forward to see if it's any different. Of course, I'll be in premium economy rather than standard, so that'll probably make it better right off the top.

[FormerWingTipper]

Originally Posted by Cage

Here is the big play with regard to the new international terminal.
- Fly a Dreamliner on the 8am YYZ-YYC and park it at gate 70. Do the reverse operation at 12:30pm.
- Fly an outbound noon departure to YYC-Daxing (gate 76), YYC-NRT (gate 78), and YYC-HKG (gate 74).
- Your 8am YYZ-YYC will have 200+ asia connection pax. The front door for the domestic to international connections is at gate 70. Its a short walk to the other Asia bound flights and much shorter connection than anything available at YVR. Return has the same functionality for Toronto pax using Calgary as a connection point.

There is no way Air Canada is going to let those swing gates go all Westjet. There will be quite the battle this summer for Gates 70-73! In fact, it has already started. Going from 19 swing gates to 4 hasn't helped either Air Canada or Westjet with their tows.

Secondly, I think you are way too optimistic that the expansion will include so much Asia.

[Bigtime]

My brain gets all screwy as I try to picture all this gate movement. It would be amazing if someone could do up an overview of the terminals and show movement of aircraft throughout a typical day at YYC. Colour coding for the different airlines to ease with the visualization.

Who's up for it?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

My brain gets all screwy as I try to picture all this gate movement. It would be amazing if someone could do up an overview of the terminals and show movement of aircraft throughout a typical day at YYC. Colour coding for the different airlines to ease with the visualization.

Who's up for it?

For years I have done gate utilization analysis using Excel import from HTML. However the new FLIFO/FIDS webpage is impossible to do a mass import. It appears the new webpage has a secondary call to get the gate information for a specific flight. There is also the problem that for international gates (using call to gate) one must either do the data pull after 9pm (for departures) or adjust to only analyze yesterday's flights.

Probably all issues are easily solved by the likes of Paul Fairie or similar data scientist at UofC. Unfortunately Paul is an election geek and not avgeek.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by FormerWingTipper

There is no way Air Canada is going to let those swing gates go all Westjet. There will be quite the battle this summer for Gates 70-73! In fact, it has already started. Going from 19 swing gates to 4 hasn't helped either Air Canada or Westjet with their tows.

Secondly, I think you are way too optimistic that the expansion will include so much Asia.

The evening flights to IAH and LAX are the only times AC really needs to use the swing gates. If I was AC I would give WS full use of the swing gates with the exception of these two aircraft.

The swing gate operations are brand damaging for WS way more than AC. Here is how WS is harmed by swing gate ops:
- Domestic arrivals have to walk across the domestic terminal to retrieve their bags or meet their arrival greeter. Connection passengers must walk across the terminal to get to their next flight. The YYC Link shuttle is overcapacity with 140+ passengers needing to get to the other side of the terminal.
- International arrivals occasionally are delayed on the plane while the doors are reconfigured or an adjacent flight i handled domestically. This is a constant complaint on twitter - having to wait 15-40 minutes for the corridors to be reconfigured.
- The C-D horseshoe can handle 12 aircraft, but only 1-2 aircraft can move at a time. Arrivals must wait for departures to push back and power up before moving onto gate.
- There appears to be only two departure run-up pads, so aircraft #3 must wait for an available space.

On the subject of transitioning from 19 swing gates in the old terminal to 4 in the new terminal there are a number of corrections:
- In the old terminal, the true number of swing gate operations was 4 gates for AC and 4 gates for WS.
- Neither airline utilized their 4 gate allotment to the full potential. From a scheduling perspective WS simultaneously used a maximum 3 swing gates to their full potential. AC used 2 swing gates under comparable conditions. For clarity, swing gate operations only count if the airplane arrives requiring one mode and then departs with 1.5 hours requiring another mode. If the airplane arrives and departs using a single mode, then swing gate operations are not required.
- The new terminal has 14 swing gates. 4 gates can swing into trimode (domestic, International, Transborder) and 10 gates can swing between bi-mode (international, transborder). There is technical provision to allow gate 82/83 into trimode operations for arrivals only, However this would be an extremely inconvenient gate option for arriving guests as they would have to walk the full length of the Nexus corridor, past all international checkin desks, past the Marriott hotel, to reach the domestic bag belts. WS pax would have an even longer walk to their bags.
- As for towing operations, all major airports have extensive tow operations. That said it takes about 2 years to iron out all the kinks and get the ground crews up to speed on efficient operations.

[thenoflyzone]

March passenger increases...

YYZ - still waiting

YVR +7.4%, YTD +7.0%

YUL +8.1%, YTD +6.0%.

YYC +1.2%, YTD +1.07%

YEG +3.3%, YTD +0.1%

YOW +0.6%, YTD -0.5%

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Acey

This can be significantly mitigated by proper apron control and more competent ground crews.
a) Air Canada are basically just pushing wherever they want with no regard for anything.

Way back in the day after the 1992 takeover of CP by AA (not quite long time ago in a galaxy far, far, away...), CP starter a western triangle shuttle and AC brought the Rapidair service to YVR-YYC. In YVR CP used 3 gates in what is now the B-C horseshoe and Ac used 2 gates on the opposite side. At this time it was push your airplane back 100 feet, disconnect, start up, go to the runway. No pads and no apron control (push at your discretion).

AC started an operational performance improvement program called "live at ground zero" (this was before 9/11). Someone at AC ground ops figured out that if AC pushed 45seconds early, they could force CP to take a delay if the start up was slowed down. Furthermore CP was trying to operate with no slack in the schedule, delays would build throughout the day. AC would push 1minute early in the morning and this would caused CP to be off schedule by the mid afternoon.

To solve the situation, YVR created 4 starts up pads, 2 for AC and 2 for CP.

Today, I think YYC is the only airport where these types of ground ops games can be played.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Acey

This can be significantly mitigated by proper apron control and more competent ground crews.

Apron control at YYC and YVR is provided by NavCan
Apron control at YUL and YYZ is provided by ADM and GTAA, respectively.

Wonder if things would improve if CAA took over the apron control at YYC.

[Lancaster]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Apron control at YYC and YVR is provided by NavCan
Apron control at YUL and YYZ is provided by ADM and GTAA, respectively.

Wonder if things would improve if CAA took over the apron control at YYC.

"Apron control" is pretty loosely defined there. If I'm not mistaken, the main apron at YVR is uncontrolled. Tower only advises push at discretion, but there is no proper apron control whatsoever there.

[cyeg66]

Originally Posted by Lancaster

"Apron control" is pretty loosely defined there. If I'm not mistaken, the main apron at YVR is uncontrolled. Tower only advises push at discretion, but there is no proper apron control whatsoever there.

Ditto with YYC, if I'm not mistaken....

[Bigtime]

All I have ever heard ATC say on 121.3 is "pushback your discretion" since I started flying in '99.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

All I have ever heard ATC say on 121.3 is "pushback your discretion" since I started flying in '99.

Well there you go. I can assure you that's not the way it's handled at YUL (and most likely YYZ). Everything is controlled, at least on the frequency. If something goes wrong, the paperwork says it's the pilots fault, but on the frequencies, its positive control. Maybe it's time YYC and YVR do the same.
I know that NavCan would gladly relinquish *control* of the aprons over to the airport authorities.

Here at YUL a few years back ADM tried to get rid of apron control and was trying to persuade NavCan to do it. The answer was a resounding NO!

[Lancaster]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Well there you go. I can assure you that's not the way it's handled at YUL (and most likely YYZ). Everything is controlled, at least on the frequency. If something goes wrong, the paperwork says it's the pilots fault, but on the frequencies, its positive control. Maybe it's time YYC and YVR do the same.
I know that NavCan would gladly relinquish *control* of the aprons over to the airport authorities.

Here at YUL a few years back ADM tried to get rid of apron control and was trying to persuade NavCan to do it. The answer was a resounding NO!

I'm actually blown away it hasn't happened yet. You'd think they'd have it especially in times of de-icing ops. Or else you could end up with nasty lines clogging up the apron waiting.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Acey

Possible report of AA contemplating a third daily Envoy flight to DFW on the E175. Has not appeared on OAG and is not bookable on AA.com, so we'll have to keep an eye out for that...

If it were to begin, it would represent a full recovery of DFW to a number of seats greater than when mainline flew 2x B738 several years ago.

3x 76-seat E175 + 113-seat B736 (WestJet) = 341 daily seats
2x 160-seat B738 = 320 daily seats
2x 140-seat MD80 = 280 daily seats

Yes... 3rd daily flight will operate from 4 August to 21 August.

The additional flight will arrive at 1135 and depart at 1220.

So 20 flights per week during this period.

[Cage]

Ruh Roh!!!!

https://www.boardoftrade.com/events/individual-events/1019-6163

A runway for growth: WestJet’s plans to connect B.C. with the world

WestJet is gearing up for an exciting new chapter of growth that has the potential to elevate the company to a truly global airline.

Earlier this month, the company announced its ambitious plans to purchase up to 20 new Boeing Dreamliner aircraft, which would allow WestJet to spread its wings and connect Canadians to long-haul destinations in Asia, South America, and Europe.

Join us on June 1 as WestJet's President & CEO, Gregg Saretsky, discusses how a truly global WestJet will generate economic opportunity across British Columbia, increase global market access, accelerate inbound tourism and create jobs for British Columbians.

Don’t miss this opportunity to hear from one of Canada’s top CEOs about growth, global expansion, and one of Western Canada’s leading business success stories.

[Bigtime]

No worries, it's simply "Connect BC with the world via YYC"

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

No worries, it's simply "Connect BC with the world via YYC"

I wish it were "no worries, be happy".

My concern is that there is no attempt at having the same speech for the Calgary Chamber of Commerce. Further its not a situation where the Calgary Chamber's dance card is full or that Saretsky would get a cold response from the audience. About the only thing I can think of, the Calgary Airport Authority is controlled by the Calgary Chamber of Commerce and WestJet and the CAA are still mending fences, so there might be a conflict of interest.

Part of my concern is the speeches given by Calin Rovinescu, AC CEO, to both the Vancouver Board of Trade and Calgary Chamber of Commerce. Recent AC speeches have been nearly identical (both in terms of topic and in terms of slide show content) save for the VBoT version being one year newer.

The other point is that Rovinescu had a similar topic to VBoT in 2013 and 2014 as to the Saretsky speech quoted above. The Rovinescu speech on 2013 highlighted the dangers of implementing an open-source hub over a traditional hub by the largest home town airline. The 2014 speech was all about how the Dreamliner and AC Rouge will transform the AC YVR route system.

I can see if the speaking notes from the 2014 VBoT luncheon are available, but here is a summary of new routes mentioned by Rovinescu:
- Brisbane......check
- Frankfurt.....check
- Heathrow high density......check
- Hong Kong high density.....check
- Rouge to Asia thru YVR....check
If Rovinescu had mentioned Delhi, Taipei, Beijing high density, Melbourne, Singapore, and Bangkok; he would have been laughed out of the room. Yet with the exception of Singapore and Bangkok all these routes have come about in the past 3 years.

I hope that Saretsky's speech on June 1 does not end up being the goal setting exercise for the WestJet Dreamliners. If this does come true, Calgarians will have to do something unCalgarian and go to AC and kick the hometown company out of the favourite spot.