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  #6361  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2017, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
It would be cool to see something like this for YYC, it would put the current noise complaints into perspective:

The YYC noise complaints are not being generated because of the high volume level from the airplanes, but rather the noise complaints are from people who have issues specifically with airplane noise. For clarity, this is not about airplane screaming overhead and people unable to carry on a conversation or hear someone inside their house. Rather the noise complainers have an overall problem specifically any level of aircraft noise. Anything short of zero noise from airplanes will satisfy the noise complainers.

An excellent example is Hawkwood. The Hawkwood Nav Canada information session was the busiest of all. The noise monitoring completed by CAA points to greater noise from the surrounding road network (Country Hills Blvd, Sarcee Trail, John Laurie, Nose Hill DR) than from airplanes flying overhead. Residents feel differently, that airplane noise is their number one community concern.

Hawkwood concerns are repeated in West Springs and other ward 6 communities. I predict that ward 6 aircraft noise issues are about to drop simply because the communities have a new boogieman in rock quarries for the SWRR.

Interesting little tidbit from the CAA AGM. The second person with questions was a primary noise complainer to the YYC hotline. One point the questioner made was there was no engagement from the airport regarding the new runway. I was seated directly beside Jim Stevenson Ward 3 Councillor. I first met Jim Stevenson at the Harvest Hills Alliance Church at an new runway engagement session to discuss environmental impacts of the new runway. Aircraft noise got a lot more attention from a display perspective, but all everyone (there were about 30 of us in attendance) wanted to discuss was Stevenson's tunnel dream.
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  #6362  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2017, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by hoboman27 View Post
The Airport's AGM is tomorrow. If anyone's going, ask them about airport privatization, the latest development.
The Emerson report was discussed by the CAA at their AGM. The new CEO, Bob Sartor, got the airport privatization message out much better at the AGM than at the previous month's council meeting.

The key drawback to privatization is that activities that drive economic growth in the region do not bring adequate immediate returns for the airport. Example is cargo traffic, especially belly cargo. Cargo does not bring in lots of revenue for the CAA, yet its the majority of the 8 billion dollar economic/GDP impact generated by the airport. A privatized airport operator would not give incentives to attract key routes that are dependent upon by the logistics and manufacturing industries.

From my own perspective, it is important to look at the impact of British Airports Authority. BAA was the privatized corporation charged with operating LHR, LGW, STN, EDI, and a few others.

BAA heavily favoured LHR because it was the key cash flow generator. Development of LGW and EDI languished under the BAA conglomerate due to the monopolistic tendency to favour LHR cash cow.

Once BAA was split up, international traffic at both LGW and EDI dramatically improved because the airports competed for new services.

In the Western Canadian context, YVR and YYZ will be the cash cow airports of a privatized airport operator conglomerate. The major problem is that privatizing all the major airports (top 8-10) under a single operator will produce much higher valuation/return for the current government while introducing a monopolistic regime for future governments to handle.
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  #6363  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 12:43 PM
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WestJet to Purchase 787-9 Dreamliners

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/westjet-to-purchase-boeing-787-9-dreamliners-620981043.html

Quote:
WestJet announced today a definitive purchase agreement with The Boeing Company for up to 20 Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft. This agreement includes commitments for 10 Boeing 787-9 aircraft to be delivered between the first quarter of 2019 and December 2021, with options for an additional 10 aircraft to be delivered between 2020 and 2024.
Quote:
As part of this purchase agreement, WestJet is converting 15 firm orders for the Boeing 737 MAX that were to be delivered between 2019 and 2021 to options available between 2022 and 2024.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Saretsky
"This order represents an exciting new chapter in WestJet's history," said Gregg Saretsky, WestJet President and CEO. "We have carefully executed on our strategic plan, first launching WestJet Encore to connect smaller communities across Canada to our growing network followed by our successful venture into wide-body flying to Hawaii and London Gatwick. Now, with the most sophisticated commercial airliner available, we turn our attention to further growing our international presence and introducing even more travellers to our award-winning guest experience."
Alright, let the speculation begin! What becomes of the four 767-300's? Do they by chance move over the ULCC that WestJet is proposing, or do they fly off into the desert? With the MAX 737's coming with onboard ovens does the addition of the 787 indicate that we may see a true business class product roll out into the fleet? What potential new routes could we see launched from YYC with the 787's? Does WestJet take a stab at the Asia market from YYC and YVR?
     
     
  #6364  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 1:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
Canadian Airlines redux IMO. Maybe they'll be lucky and avoid the same mistakes that Canadian Airlines made.

Personally, I think the Canadian market is too small for 2 full-service airlines. Westjet had a solid niche before - efficient, pleasant North American travel, with a focus on Canada. They're bloating now - trying to be everything to everybody - without an apparent (to me, anyway) coherent strategy.

Now they're going into much more competitive waters. Not only are they competing with Air Canada (and to a lesser extent with US carriers that offered service to Canada), but they are competing with the giants of the airline world. Judging by the learning curve they faced with London-Gatwick operation, I'd avoid them initially unless it was a screaming deal and I had time to burn for delays in travel.

My only other theory is that they're trying to preempt Norwegian Long-Haul from starting service here.

As for where they would service, I'm honestly not too sure. I could see them using the 787 on LGW service to replace the 767s, but I'm honestly curious where else they'd deploy them. Maybe Paris, Beijing or Shanghai? I'm curious how Canada's intercontinental traffic stats look.
     
     
  #6365  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 1:26 PM
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You have to assume it is to replace the 767's, right? Those things are old and full of issues. Plus it would keep them at the same number of unique airframes to keep costs down. So replacing the 4 767's, and with 10 787's, they could add one or two routes, right?
     
     
  #6366  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 1:47 PM
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I think one or two routes could be added with the first 10 787's, if they do exercise the options and get the further 10 787's that will give them more options to expand service. I think Cage can expand on options a little further, as I understand the typical transatlantic route can utilize one frame, but transpacific routes require two aircraft.
     
     
  #6367  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 2:46 PM
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Well, and certain trans-atlantic could be 'Max'd, with pumped up frequency. Might be desirable for higher frequency, more tuneable YUL-CDG, enabling routes to go year round that otherwise would not.
     
     
  #6368  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 2:50 PM
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Could they use them on YYC/YVR-YYZ until they figure out a more long term strategy with what to do with them? Every flight I've even been on to Toronto is always packed.

Good news for WestJet, but yeah they need a more clear strategy. The ULCC thing makes no sense.
     
     
  #6369  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 3:09 PM
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the MAX 737's will be able to operate Alberta-Hawaii with no restrictions. So that free's up the widebody frames to operate other routes.
     
     
  #6370  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by yyc_engineer View Post
Could they use them on YYC/YVR-YYZ until they figure out a more long term strategy with what to do with them? Every flight I've even been on to Toronto is always packed.

Good news for WestJet, but yeah they need a more clear strategy. The ULCC thing makes no sense.
If I recall correctly, someone (Cage?) mentioned that Terminal 3 at YYZ where Westjet is located couldn't support using too many wide-body aircraft at once - there was no material advantage as you couldn't necessarily push more passengers through the terminal as compared to more narrow-body aircraft.

I could see Westjet doing some temporary service on the 787s domestically to iron out any issues they might have. I think they did that with their 767s, but it didn't help much with their issues.
     
     
  #6371  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the MAX 737's will be able to operate Alberta-Hawaii with no restrictions. So that free's up the widebody frames to operate other routes.
Should be. Ranges from Calgary and Toronto, Max8s, 3515 nautical miles.
[IMG][/IMG]
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3515nm%40yyc%2C+3515nm%40yyz&DU=mi&SU=kts&RS=best

From Calgary Edinburgh is only 20 miles too far (just need a tweak in max load, Glasgow 7 miles of extra non reserve range! Belfast 4 mi over.
     
     
  #6372  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 8:32 PM
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First off, there is a lot to unpack with today's Q1-2017 announcement at Westjet. Highlights:
- Return on Invested Capital (ROIC) is the key metric at WS. For the current quarter its down to 10% for the trailing 12 months from a target of 13-16%.
- Revenue per Available Seat Mile (RASM) has positive year over year figures for the first time in 2 years of quarterly results.
- Cost per Available Seat Mile (CASM) went up faster than RASM. Mostly due to fuel being higher than prior year.
- the new ULCC will be truly separate from mainline. So a pax will not be able to fly YXE-YYC-AZA on a single ticket. Further there will be no interlining between the ULCC and WS.
- New EVP Commercial that comes from a legacy airline, the incumbent EVP Commercial will head up the ULCC operation. Not mentioned on the call, but the incumbent EVP Commercial worked closely with Clive Beddoe and was - in my opinion - the "founding son" of the original four founding fathers.
- Crew for the ULCC will come from existing mainline ranks, but will be separate bid positions. (so there will be a mainline 737 captain and ULCC 737 captain on separate lists). No difference in pay rates from what I can tell.
- Dreamliners will have lie flat business class cabin in addition to a premium economy cabin. There will be a three class configuration with regular economy.
- Effectively 15 737max aircraft have left the fleet plan (it is common practice to never take up options that are converted from firm orders. In this case, the transfer to options allows the manufacturer to save face by not advertising the fact the order has been permanently cut).
- The 2019 max reduction is 3 max8 and 3 max9. The 2020 reduction is 3 max7, the 2021 reduction is 2 max7 and 4 max 8.
- There appears to be no increase in capital requirements for purchasing 10 789s vs 15 737max. At list prices, the 789 is worth 2.2-2.5 737max aircraft. If the first statement is true, then WS got one helluva deal on the dreamliners. Also if true, the net purchase price WS got would be equivalent to the AC purchase price for 789s after all the delay and performance rebates were factored into the AC purchase price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
[SIZE="4"]Alright, let the speculation begin!
(1) What becomes of the four 767-300's?
(2) Do they by chance move over the ULCC that WestJet is proposing, or do they fly off into the desert?
(3) With the MAX 737's coming with onboard ovens does the addition of the 787 indicate that we may see a true business class product roll out into the fleet?
(4) What potential new routes could we see launched from YYC with the 787's?
(5) Does WestJet take a stab at the Asia market from YYC and YVR?
(1) I predict the 763s last WS mission will be as the beer can handed out by FA's on the LAS run. For clarity, the 3 789s to be delivered in 2019 can replace the 763 summer program.

(2) No chance the 763s move over to the ULCC. There might be a chance that WS picks up some better 763 models for widebody growth, but no chance the ULCC will see a widebody aircraft.

(3) Yep, this bolsters the opinion that WS mainline will become more aligned with AC mainline services. Hot food and domestic first class on the 737s, small lie flat cabin on Dreamliner, WestJet branded lounges, loyalty program improvements. The biggest outlier question is whether WS joins and alliance.

(4) YYC-Bejing Daxing Airport is within easy reach of the Dreamliner. Daxing will launch in 2019 timeframe. Here is a youtube regarding construction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDJ4ao59qBU

AC is expected to stay in PEK with other Star Alliance airlines. The current China to Canada bilateral is filled to capacity on the Chinese side, so I don't expect any new route rights until atleast the opening of Daxing.

China Southern (CZ) and China Eastern (MU) will move to Daxing, so I suspect that one airline will get the rights to Daxing-YVR route and immediately start daily operations. This would put the route at between 4-5 daily widebody flights and squeeze out WS. Same situation at YYZ, AC plus one of CZ or MU will dominate the market.

(5) Asia is a definite yes, however beyond a big push for Daxing, I don't know if there is much for WS to do in Asia.

Japan is an extremely seasonal market. December to February is pretty much a Flight attendant and Pilot personal transportation service just to keep up the slot. Also the Japanese are very protectionist, so WS would have to do a deal with JL in order to get market access.

TPE is a possibility once the Chinese situation is resolved. But if WS attempts to go into both China and Taiwan simultaneously, the Chinese will say "no wonton soup for you".

The problem with YVR is that every Chinese airline is all ready there. Plus the Chinese are willing to take a pounding on route profitability just to block their domestic competitor, so the market (YVR-China) is the definition of irrationality.

Here is the big play with regard to the new international terminal.
- Fly a Dreamliner on the 8am YYZ-YYC and park it at gate 70. Do the reverse operation at 12:30pm.
- Fly an outbound noon departure to YYC-Daxing (gate 76), YYC-NRT (gate 78), and YYC-HKG (gate 74).
- Your 8am YYZ-YYC will have 200+ asia connection pax. The front door for the domestic to international connections is at gate 70. Its a short walk to the other Asia bound flights and much shorter connection than anything available at YVR. Return has the same functionality for Toronto pax using Calgary as a connection point.
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  #6373  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 8:39 PM
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Good stuff Cage, was waiting for you to come in with the analysis and insight.

Yes please to your "big play" at the end.
     
     
  #6374  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 9:11 PM
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- Dreamliners will have lie flat business class cabin in addition to a premium economy cabin. There will be a three class configuration with regular economy.
This is big news...... I thought they would go with the Norwegian/Scoot model

It looks like Westjet maybe ready to join an alliance in a few years, but they codeshare with several OW and ST airlines, I wonder which way they will go
     
     
  #6375  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 9:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cage View Post
First off, there is a lot to unpack with today's Q1-2017 announcement at Westjet. Highlights: ...
Mighty good stuff Cage, you never disappoint. The lounge thing is interesting, not sure if WestJet's clienteles are ready for that, and how it fits with Calgary's plans.

WestJet already has a codeshare with Hainan, maybe that'll help them evaluate the possibility of YYC-China. But if Chinese airlines are willing to forego profitability just to block out competition, how would Calgary handle both PEK and Daxing?
     
     
  #6376  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 10:54 PM
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If one of those Dreamliners helps Westjet start YYC-PVG, I'm all for it.
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  #6377  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Canadian74 View Post
(1) This is big news...... I thought they would go with the Norwegian/Scoot model.
(1) The WS order silently confirms what I have been hearing for a while, Boeing is going to remove the 788 from the sales book and focus on the 789 and 78X.

WS could make a case for the 788 in a high density configuration of 280 pax. But with the 788 out of the picture, the 789 would be 350-375 in a similar seat configuration. 350 seats is too big a jump on any Canadian route.

WS also has a revenue problem with their LGW operation. This stuff is super complex to understand, so I will try and use a real world example.

Take a look at WS2 on Aug6,
- Premium Economy (PE) has the last 3 seats for $1000,
- Flex fares (the highest economy cabin fare class) are at $992.
The corresponding AC850 on Aug 6th has,
- PE for $1,100 with half the cabin wide open.
- Latitude (full fare economy) is $1,800 and
- Biz cabin (J fare) is $1,900.

WS revenue problem starts once those last 3 PE seats are sold. We know from recent events that WS does not overbook, so there is no opportunity to re-accommodate the cheap PE seats on another flight. The best WS can offer is a Flex economy seat for $1,100-$1,300.

AC however still has half their PE cabin to sell and they all ready have $100 per pax than WS. Further AC can increase their PE fare to $1,300-$1,500 because they are the only game in town. AC can sell a latitude ticket to an Altitude Status holder for $1,800 and then upgrade them to J class. There are many premium fare sales opportunities available to AC.

Fast forward to July 15th (3 weeks before departure) and AC can sell an expensive economy ticket and then find a way to put the pax into either PE or J. Guaranteed that pax is not going to be sitting in the middle seat of the rear economy cabin. WS says welcome to 33E for $1,300.

The lie flat J class seat on the WS Dreamliner solves the revenue problem:
- J class sells for $1,800 and is never discounted.
- PE class sells for $900 to $1,600. A PE fare for $1300 compares well to a J class for $1800.
- last minute full fare economy passengers can get upgraded to either PE or J class.
- WS can now sell a paid J class fare to the Suncor executive who has paid business class in their benefits. Currently Westjet has the contract for all Suncor flying with the exception of the executive travel because they don't have a true business class seat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian74 View Post
(2) It looks like Westjet maybe ready to join an alliance in a few years, but they codeshare with several OW and ST airlines, I wonder which way they will go
I still suspect that WS will go with ST and not OW. In addition to cancelling the BA codeshare & interline agreement, WS has cancelled the codeshare with CX. Further Ed Bastian, DL CEO, has publicly mused about putting an investment stake (minority shareholding) in WS.
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  #6378  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 12:50 AM
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(1) The WS order silently confirms what I have been hearing for a while, Boeing is going to remove the 788 from the sales book and focus on the 789 and 78X.
Is the lack of commonality between the 787-8 and -9/-10 the reason for Boeing's dropping of the model? It seems to be a popular plane with ~420 orders.

I've noticed that many manufacturers are keeping smaller derivatives upcoming aircraft for sale - see: A319neo, 737 MAX 7 and A330neo-800 despite their relatively poor sales reception so far.
     
     
  #6379  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 1:16 AM
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Your "big play" is very believable Cage.

I hear from people that frequently travel to Asia that the market is rediculously price sensitive, but service on the Asia based budget airlines is often unacceptable. There may be a sweet spot to be found for Westjet by offering a price advantage over Cathay/ Air Canada while having a higher service standard than the budget Asian Carriers.
     
     
  #6380  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 2:32 AM
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I'm curious if WS entertains putting their widebody base at YVR? If it's true that they'd perhaps move to ST for alliance, the following ST carriers service YVR...

Aeromexico
Air France
China Airlines
China Eastern
China Southern
Delta
KLM
Korean
Xiamen

Compared to YYC...
Aeromexico (starting in June)
Delta
KLM

It's obvious that YYZ will be WS's eastern Canadian hub, but I'd be interested to see how the west shakes out. I imagine the worry at YVR might be IF WS bases at YYC and joins ST, maybe a lot of those ST airlines start hubbing at YYC since YVR is almost full. However, YVR has the O&D asian market hands down. Cage?
     
     
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