Confederation Line West LRT Extension (Stage 2) [Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[J.OT13]

The major issue is that they are building this upside down. How does in make sens that suburban stations are closer together tan the ones in the central area?

[Kitchissippi]

My point about moving Westboro station to be in line with McRae isn't because of some planner-ese walking bubble radius paper analysis, it's about improving its real usefulness and visibility for businesses like the Superstore, Farm Boy, and other retail that will eventually fill the spaces on that street, and Westboro Village in general. It's about integrating the urban experience with transit, thinking beyond the basic commuting function of the LRT and more towards improving its daily utility for people who might use it to get groceries and do other errands.

All the stations in this western extension are not-quite-there locations. They're all invisible and/or circuitously positioned from the main commercial areas they should or could serving — Westboro Village, Carlingwood, Lincoln Fields, Ikea, College Square, and to a degree, even Bayshore relative to how it's being done in the Rideau Centre, St-Lauent and Blair.

[1overcosc]

I dunno.. I think with all the high rise buildings present and proposed immediately adjacent to Westboro station, the window for relocating the near-west stations has passed. That said, a one block move wouldn't be too problematic.

In retrospect, I think it would have better back in the day to instead of having Westboro and Dominion, have three stations in their place--one at Rochester Field, one at Churchill, and one at Island Park. But the opportunity for doing that has passed.

[roger1818]

Don't forget Dominion Station was built as an afterthought in 1999, well after the Transitway was completed.

I'm not sure the NCC would permit a station on the parkway near Rochester Fields. I do agree Churchill would have been better but my guess is some NYMBYism prevented it (was before I moved to Ottawa). As for Island Park, it looks good on paper but in practice I don't think it would be that great a location without major street redesign.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

And Dominion, which is closer to the heart of Westboro than Westboro transit Station. Also would reduce the confusion caused by the Westboro Station condo development (why did the City allow that name, who knows?) Current Westboro transit Station should be renamed Kitchissipi or Tweedsmuir.

I don't mind Dominion; it has good historical roots, if forgotten ones.

Whatever it's called, I hope they improve pedestrian access and wayfinding for the little beach.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by jleiper

My understanding is that there are a couple of costs that make it prohibitive. The NCC will be charging for the buses on their parkway

There goes the NCC again, being supportive of transit.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The major issue is that they are building this upside down. How does in make sens that suburban stations are closer together tan the ones in the central area?

It's Ottawa.

Given that the entire transit plan is, in every respect, about moving suburbanites, and given that our entire mass transit budget is now devoted to building higher-order transit at the expense of transit-supportive central neighbourhoods, this is an entirely fitting monument to the Watson council.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Don't forget Dominion Station was built as an afterthought in 1999, well after the Transitway was completed.

I'm not sure the NCC would permit a station on the parkway near Rochester Fields. I do agree Churchill would have been better but my guess is some NYMBYism prevented it (was before I moved to Ottawa). As for Island Park, it looks good on paper but in practice I don't think it would be that great a location without major street redesign.

Why would the street need redesigning?

The original Transitway concept of the 1970-80s called for a station at Island Park. Can't remember now if it was cheapness, NIMBYism, or both, that killed it. Probably both.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The major issue is that they are building this upside down. How does in make sens that suburban stations are closer together tan the ones in the central area?

Lyon, Parliament and Rideau stations are each well under 1 km apart (more like the 500 to 700 m range). Which suburban stations are closer than that? From what I can tell most suburban stations will be about 1 km apart (some a bit more, some a bit less).

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Why would the street need redesigning?

The current street layout makes it awkward for pedestrians and buses to get to a station at Island Park (especially from the south-west). It is even worse than Westboro Station IMHO.

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Lyon, Parliament and Rideau stations are each well under 1 km apart (more like the 500 to 700 m range). Which suburban stations are closer than that? From what I can tell most suburban stations will be about 1 km apart (some a bit more, some a bit less).

I couldn't find a good map, but I also appreciate that the station entrances downtown are separated by quite a distance. Is that the 500m you're referring to?

i.e. what's the distance separation between the western Parliament station entrance, and the eastern Lyon station entrance?

Edit: About 450 metres from Place de Ville entrance to 155 Queen Street entrance.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The current street layout makes it awkward for pedestrians and buses to get to a station at Island Park (especially from the south-west). It is even worse than Westboro Station IMHO.

Why would buses need to get to an LRT station at Island Park?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Why would buses need to get to an LRT station at Island Park?

Note I said pedestrians and buses. If its not convenient for either pedestrians or buses, what is the point of having a station there?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Note I said pedestrians and buses. If its not convenient for either pedestrians or buses, what is the point of having a station there?

Not sure why buses come into the discussion at all, then.

I don't see that issue with access from the SW as insurmountable, or even as a huge issue, to be honest.

There was no real reason, other than cheapness or NIMBYism, why there wasn't a Transitway station at Island Park, or why there couldn't be an LRT one. A major reconstruction of the street is not a prereq.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

There was no real reason, other than cheapness or NIMBYism, why there wasn't a Transitway station at Island Park, or why there couldn't be an LRT one. A major reconstruction of the street is not a prereq.

Other than the fact that it seems silly to force the train to stop at a station that will serve at most 50 houses in an area that has no potential for increased density.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Other than the fact that it seems silly to force the train to stop at a station that will serve at most 50 houses in an area that has no potential for increased density.

Why is there no potential for increased density?

Within a few minutes walk of what would have been the Transitway station at Island Park, you have Our Lady of the Condos and the Canada Banknote property. Island Park Drive itself might be protected, but there's no real impediment to allowing the rest of the 600m zone densify over time, if that's what incumbent property owners want.

And, but for rampant NIMBYism, you could also have an LRT-STO interface running at least some buses across the Champlain bridge to/from Aylmer and the Aylmer roads.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Lyon, Parliament and Rideau stations are each well under 1 km apart (more like the 500 to 700 m range). Which suburban stations are closer than that? From what I can tell most suburban stations will be about 1 km apart (some a bit more, some a bit less).

The system is built to get suburbanites to downtown. So the City made the stations in the sprawling suburbs close together and the downtown stations (busiest in the system) close together (although there's a good argument that we would have needed a fourth).

What I'm referring to is everything in between. The lack of stations around the current high density areas, between Bayview and Bayshore, between Hurdman and St-Joseph.



I look at this and can't help but wonder, why Promenade d'Orléans? It's all low density, 0 potential for densification. Super close to Jeanne d'Arc and Place d'Orléans.

Jasmine Crescent on the other hand, a high density, low-income area, home to Gloucester High School where students from Overbrook will have attend soon, might get something in maybe 20-30 years. Is it because they don't want the lower class to mingle with the middle income earners from Orleans?

Even their future lines. Before serving the inner area, they want to extend to Sttitville and Kanata North and Cumberland via Innes.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Within a few minutes walk of what would have been the Transitway station at Island Park, you have Our Lady of the Condos and the Canada Banknote property.

Not sure what you mean by the "Our Lady of the Condos" but the Canada Banknote property would be as well if not better served by a Westboro station shifted away from Dominion Station (and closer to Lanark Ave).

Island Park Drive itself might be protected, but there's no real impediment to allowing the rest of the 600m zone densify over time, if that's what incumbent property owners want.

It could happen, but unlikely. It is difficult and expensive to buy up a bunch of single family homes to build apartments and condos.

And, but for rampant NIMBYism, you could also have an LRT-STO interface running at least some buses across the Champlain bridge to/from Aylmer and the Aylmer roads.

You could, but the primary purpose of the STO running at buses across the Champlain bridge would be for those travelling west in Ottawa. In my mind a better option would be to sever Island Park Drive from the Parkway and instead re-align the approach to the Champlain bridge to run almost due North/South (in-line with the actual bridge to Riopelle Island) and then have a busway run south of the parkway (parallel to Briarway Private), to Scott St. and Westboro station.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Not sure what you mean by the "Our Lady of the Condos"

It's the sarcastic name bestowed by Ken Gray et al. on the perfectly fine condo project at what used to be the nun-house there on Richmond.

but the Canada Banknote property would be as well if not better served by a Westboro station shifted away from Dominion Station (and closer to Lanark Ave).

Island Park is even closer.

It could happen, but unlikely. It is difficult and expensive to buy up a bunch of single family homes to build apartments and condos.

And yet, it happened many times in the past, and continues to happen when and where it isn't restricted by pointless stupid land-use rules.

You could, but the primary purpose of the STO running at buses across the Champlain bridge would be for those travelling west in Ottawa.

Or for those travelling east from Aylmer who don't want to spend excessive time on the Upper and Slower Aylmer Roads.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

It's the sarcastic name bestowed by Ken Gray et al. on the perfectly fine condo project at what used to be the nun-house there on Richmond.

Okay. Still not sure which condos you are referring to.

Island Park is even closer.

The Canada Banknote property is half way between Lanark Ave and Island Park Drive, so a Westboro station at Lanark Ave would be equally close as a station at Island Park Drive.

Or for those travelling east from Aylmer who don't want to spend excessive time on the Upper and Slower Aylmer Roads.

Until Gatinau builds the LRT system to Aylmer that they are talking about.