Confederation Line West LRT Extension (Stage 2) [Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.... another WLRT2 posting on Stage2lrt website :

http://www.stage2lrt.ca/wp-content/u...esentation.pdf

Construction phasing, and Detour management.

Very interesting! So the temporary bus route will use the existing Dominion Station and a new station will be built for the LRT that is a bit further east. This will be much better than the current location, though I still think it is a bit awkward a location. The pedestrian entrance will be at the west end of the platform (on Dominion Ave to the south), but Dominion doesn't connect to Richmond, so you need to jog over to Berkley Ave. But there isn't a crosswalk on Richmond at Berkley Ave, so you need to either walk back to Golden Ave (in line with Domonion) or to Roosevelt Ave.

IMHO, it would be better to locate the station a bit further to the east with the entrance on the east end of the platform at Roosevelt. The big problem with this is the station construction would conflict with the temporary overpass. It would also make the station very close to Westboro station, though it could be moved a bit further east as well (maybe just west of Lanark Ave).

[PHrenetic]

Good Day.... never gonna happen.
remember - prime in all of this is reducing costs by re-using almost all existing infrastructure. So, Wesboro station is already excavated - that's it. As for Dominion, most people would and have said it needs/needed to be moved westward into the park where one of the first routing options would have cut out to Richmond Road, thereby equalizing distances between Cleary and Westboro. But, Dominion alrady existed, so to reduce complaints/objections/discussions/arguements/delays/NIMBYs, - that's it. And after all the routings came out, any station furthur west would have been NIMBY big time. So. No moves, no discussions, no revisits. Similarly, both Cleary and New Orchard are - to put it mildly - IMHO, not well-situated as to cachement, but they were the least NIMBY, and had 'some'arguements as it was. So, same for them - no moves/discussions/revisits. That's it folks, nothing to see here, move along, move along.
Sigh.

[Mikeed]

Ottawa River Parkway connection to Queenways more likely with some of these changes- moving the right-of-way out of the flood plains.

I think the idea of doing this, and tolling it during peak times, to generate revenue for the NCC and urban development is exciting. We could do more exciting Capital design if not all capital($$) came from Federal revenue for this- if we had a stream of revenue that the NCC can use to maintain and expand assets of urbanism.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Similarly, both Cleary and New Orchard are - to put it mildly - IMHO, not well-situated as to cachement, but they were the least NIMBY, and had 'some'arguements as it was. So, same for them - no moves/discussions/revisits. That's it folks, nothing to see here, move along, move along.

Also, can we ditch the name "New Orchard"?

[eltodesukane]

I wonder why all the maps in those pdf documents are very poor quality blurry jpg images...

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

I wonder why all the maps in those pdf documents are very poor quality blurry jpg images...

Incompetence? JPEG files are smaller aren't they?

In a perfect world they would use a vector format for line drawings (the image file will be much smaller and you can zoom indefinitely), but no one seems to ever bother using them. Failing that PNGs are a better option for line drawings (you will get as good if not better compression as a JPEG without all the noise), but no one seems to know that.

[rocketphish]

The original images may very well be high quality (regardless of format), but if the person converting the source document to PDF enables the "high compression" or "fast download for web" or whatever option, the end result will be grainy images not suitable for enlarging.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

The original images may very well be high quality (regardless of format), but if the person converting the source document to PDF enables the "high compression" or "fast download for web" or whatever option, the end result will be grainy images not suitable for enlarging.

Those PDFs are their presentations when speaking at open houses. Obviously you don't need high quality for those.
Sometimes they also post high quality stuff, unfortunately not very often.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day....
a further commentary on the Belfast Yard expansion from the March 30 Eastway Gardens meeting,
as per the article in the OttawaCommunityNews covering the meeting :

http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/n...ght-rail-yard/

a good summary of the presentation, worth reading for the insights.
Seems there will be a further presentation May 3.
EnJoy!

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day....
a further commentary on the Belfast Yard expansion from the March 30 Eastway Gardens meeting,
as per the article in the OttawaCommunityNews covering the meeting :

http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/n...ght-rail-yard/

a good summary of the presentation, worth reading for the insights.
Seems there will be a further presentation May 3.
EnJoy!

I'm curious why they don't just construct the new noise wall north of the VIA tracks. If the issue is noise from the VIA track affecting the homes, maybe VIA can share the cost of the noise wall. If it's north of the VIA tracks it would protect the homes from both the LRT yard and VIA noise.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day....
Now THAT is a smashing suggestion.
Unfortunately, I think that the classical railways have never really considered noise walls on their property for fear of access problems in case of derailments.
This one is proposed for the LRT side of the property line.
And to put it on city/private property on the north side..... NIMBY !!!
So despite being a top-notch idea, it will probably never happen unless VIA/CN really get on-board.
Sigh!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Incompetence? JPEG files are smaller aren't they?

In a perfect world they would use a vector format for line drawings (the image file will be much smaller and you can zoom indefinitely), but no one seems to ever bother using them. Failing that PNGs are a better option for line drawings (you will get as good if not better compression as a JPEG without all the noise), but no one seems to know that.

These days, I assume if someone is using poor-res images, or text-as-image, in web-published versions of public documents, that they are doing it on purpose. All the sheen of openness, without none of the actual openness.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Also, can we ditch the name "New Orchard"?

And Dominion, which is closer to the heart of Westboro than Westboro transit Station. Also would reduce the confusion caused by the Westboro Station condo development (why did the City allow that name, who knows?) Current Westboro transit Station should be renamed Kitchissipi or Tweedsmuir.

[jleiper]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Don't forget the "Nightmare" comment was referring to Churchill, not Scott St. Churchill north of Scott is much narrower. Considering the vast majority of those 2500 buses are within a 6 hour period, you are probably looking at over 200 buses an hour, or a bus at least every 20 seconds on a narrow, 2 lane, residential street.

Correct. If they'd proposed that, I think you would have seen the fireworks.

You can take a look at the livestream of the public meeting here: http://kitchissippiward.ca/content/l...ion-and-boards. Basically, and I credit the City with a change in approach, the 'hood is treating this detour with some trepidation about how it will all work, and that's legit. But, we're not seeing the calls not to do it.

Just before I had to vote, I convened a very small meeting of the Workman residents to spend a couple of hours with they and staff to go through all the details, and the City came to our larger public meeting very prepared. They've come to the table recognizing some of the mitigations they'll need to do up front (noise barrier on Workman, deadheads on the SJAM, noise and air quality monitoring, etc.) so we don't need to beg for those. They're sharing what they know and their assumptions, and they are being very transparent about how the different options shake out. They definitely learned the lessons of how stage 1 went down.

The biggest concern at this point is ped and cycling safety, and the City also recognizes that the IPD/Scott intersection is going to need more thought. We'll work through that with the community at the table. The concerns being raised are legit, but not insurmountable.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

And Dominion, which is closer to the heart of Westboro than Westboro transit Station. Also would reduce the confusion caused by the Westboro Station condo development (why did the City allow that name, who knows?) Current Westboro transit Station should be renamed Kitchissipi or Tweedsmuir.

I would like to see Westboro station nudged one block to the east and maybe renamed McRae. It's a wider street with great line of sight from Richmond road, especially if they incorporate an architectural feature on the street axis that made it more noticeable as a focal point. McRae is also getting a complete make-over as a hub, and having the station visually and spatially linked to the commercial "esplanade" could really help create a better pedestrian environment.

Of all the LRT stations, Dominion station will have the best access to the Ottawa River and naming it Kitchissippi would make better sense. Plus, replacing a twee and archaic colonial term with an aboriginal based name makes it ring louder.

[waterloowarrior]

I agree with the previous posters that this would have been the ideal time to make some tweaks to the station locations. It wouldn't be the only Transitway station moving.

There will be almost 1.6 km between Westboro and Parkdale, while many suburban stations will be closer together like Queensview to Greenboro (1.1KM), Cyrville to St. Laurent (1 km), Jeanne D'Arc to Orleans Blvd (1KM), and Iris to Baseline (1 KM). Even New Orchard is closer to Cleary (1.2 km) and Lincoln Fields (1KM).

We are seeing a lot of development around Wellington and Island Park, but these residents will have to walk around 10 minutes (900-1000 metres) in the wrong direction or 10-15 minutes to Parkdale to access rapid transit to downtown. It's not the end of the world since it's continuing the status quo and there is good local bus service, but it's a missed opportunity. If you can be at your destination by car before you even walk to the bus stop, you are going to choose the car more often even if living in a walkable urban area.

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I would like to see Westboro station nudged one block to the east and maybe renamed McRae. It's a wider street with great line of sight from Richmond road, especially if they incorporate an architectural feature on the street axis that made it more noticeable as a focal point. McRae is also getting a complete make-over as a hub, and having the station visually and spatially linked to the commercial "esplanade" could really help create a better pedestrian environment.

Of all the LRT stations, Dominion station will have the best access to the Ottawa River and naming it Kitchissippi would make better sense. Plus, replacing a twee and archaic colonial term with an aboriginal based name makes it ring louder.

I'd rather see Westboro station kept where it is and an additional station added to the east of it to better bridge the ridiculously long gap there. Between Bayview and Westboro station there's only 1 station over a distance of 2.6km. I think it's ambitious to think we can solve that problem by moving the station one block to the east. Realistically, we need a station between Westboro and Tunney's but also another one between Tunney's and Bayview.

If we keep the stations where they are now, at least we can push for one or both of those missing stations to be built in the future.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by jleiper

Correct. If they'd proposed that, I think you would have seen the fireworks.

Agreed. That is what I was trying to communicate, though may not have been clear.

deadheads on the SJAM,

in addition to the deadheads, would it also make sense to run the "Connexion" buses along SJAM as very few people on them get or off at Dominion or Westboro? It is longer, but the reduced number of traffic lights might make it just as fast, and it would further reduce the traffic on Scott St. To be clear, the "Rapid" buses would still run along Scott St to provide regular service to Dominion and Westboro.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

I'd rather see Westboro station kept where it is and an additional station added to the east of it to better bridge the ridiculously long gap there. Between Bayview and Westboro station there's only 1 station over a distance of 2.6km. I think it's ambitious to think we can solve that problem by moving the station one block to the east. Realistically, we need a station between Westboro and Tunney's but also another one between Tunney's and Bayview.

I disagree. More stations mean more stopping and starting. Rapid transit requires stations spaced further apart to allow it to be rapid and 1km is about the sweet spot. Tunnies and Westboro are a bit far apart, but adding another station would put them too close together. Lanark is close the perfect distance from Dominion station. Island Park might be a touch better, but the population density is lower there and the connectivity isn't as good.

The advantage of the current Westboro location, is there is land available to route buses from the Champlain bridge without many NIMY issues.

[jleiper]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Agreed. That is what I was trying to communicate, though may not have been clear.



in addition to the deadheads, would it also make sense to run the "Connexion" buses along SJAM as very few people on them get or off at Dominion or Westboro? It is longer, but the reduced number of traffic lights might make it just as fast, and it would further reduce the traffic on Scott St. To be clear, the "Rapid" buses would still run along Scott St to provide regular service to Dominion and Westboro.

My understanding is that there are a couple of costs that make it prohibitive. The NCC will be charging for the buses on their parkway, and then they'd have to get the buses to Tunney's station. The congestion concerns are also very high taking the buses past Dominion on an unimproved SJAM.