Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

You have already burdened our kids and grand kids with the high housing, high energy costs, and low wages.

What is one more kick in the nuts to the generations the old farts call "entitled"?

LOL those projects will benefit our kids and grandkids a lot more than they will benefit us.

Debt is important to keep track of, but considering all debt bad is a naive way to view the world.

Provincial debt has been relatively flat over the last few years and very low compared to other jurisdictions. Smart long term investment is always good.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

LOL those projects will benefit our kids and grandkids a lot more than they will benefit us.

Debt is important to keep track of, but considering all debt bad is a naive way to view the world.

Provincial debt has been relatively flat over the last few years and very low compared to other jurisdictions. Smart long term investment is always good.

Yes, I'm all for smart investment even if it has debt to be managed.

Hoarding billions to show that you have a surplus when an election comes around is a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 way of doing business.

Instead of your tax dollars at work they are just numbers in an account with potential to be redirected to another poor use after the election if things don't change!

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Yes, I'm all for smart investment even if it has debt to be managed.

Hoarding billions to show that you have a surplus when an election comes around is a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 way of doing business.

Instead of your tax dollars at work they are just numbers in an account with potential to be redirected to another poor use after the election if things don't change!

I'm specifically speaking about Site C and UBC Line capital projects.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'm specifically speaking about Site C and UBC Line capital projects.

I know, I'm just trying to get more people to vote, even if it's not in favor of what i say. An election is looming after all.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Neither did Burnaby or New Westminster combined when the Expo Line was built in 1985.

The main areas of the North Shore are within 10km of the regional core, have a high percentage of commuters to downtown, and are currently building lots of nodal density, which makes it ideal for rapid transit service.

If a Hastings Skytrain Line eventually happens, it's also a relatively short spur to double back to Lonsdale. Think of it as similar magnitude to Evergreen, but instead of a tunnel to Port Moody, it's a bridge to the North Shore.

It would still be slower overall than using the Seabus- and it would be difficult to connect quickly with regional centers without a line down Boundary.

I don't know if it's worth it.

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

While North Shore isn't my area of expertise there are certainly lots of places where it could work, Im a huge believer in building it to SFU, too bad Nimbys exist.

What about gondola to Lynn Valley?

Originally Posted by Jebby

You sound like Donald Trump!

Sure, it's manageable for now. But what do we do when interest rates rise?

Although I do have to say is that if we are going to burden our kids and grandkids with having to pay these debts, at least they'll be to pay down infrastructure projects that will last 100 years.

Says the person with a "Make America Great Again" subtitle username...

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

I thought the economic study of Site C showed there was absolutely no economic case. The report I read said that electricity consumption is stable and really this project is not needed, especially at the massive environmental damage cost.

There isn't, because importing energy from fossil fuel power plants at night, while conserving water turns out to be pretty darn cheap.

Site C is probably largely for export to Alberta or Cali.

[Reecemartin]

This is a major reach, but what's the chance the Millenium Line gets extended South to Surrey Centre over the Port Mann.....

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

This is a major reach, but what's the chance the Millenium Line gets extended South to Surrey Centre over the Port Mann.....

There's odds for getting struck by lightning while being eaten by a shark (1 in 3,748,067), so you never know.

But it's kind of a bad idea anyway. If demand reaches a point where it's an option, you might as well build a brand new line from the Tri-Cities directly to Surrey.

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

There's odds for getting struck by lightning while being eaten by a shark (1 in 3,748,067), so you never know.

But it's kind of a bad idea anyway. If demand reaches a point where it's an option, you might as well build a brand new line from the Tri-Cities directly to Surrey.

Was just trying to figure out what line was conceived when they built the Port Mann to be capable of holding rt, anyone know how an rt alignment would be built on the bridge?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

There's odds for getting struck by lightning while being eaten by a shark (1 in 3,748,067), so you never know.

But it's kind of a bad idea anyway. If demand reaches a point where it's an option, you might as well build a brand new line from the Tri-Cities directly to Surrey.

You me the L LRT...

[Reecemartin]

Once the M-Line is fully built out with a poco spur ow long will it be?

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

I thought the economic study of Site C showed there was absolutely no economic case. The report I read said that electricity consumption is stable and really this project is not needed, especially at the massive environmental damage cost.

Going OT but:

I'm pretty sure it makes economic sense, but Site C has taken too long to come to the table to get shelved again. This is one of those dam'd if you do, damned if you don't situations

Site C is an inevitable, the energy generated may not be needed now, but it will be if everyone decides to go drive plug-in hybrids tomorrow, or the Cities pull stupid things like banning natural gas in new developments.

The demand will only go up, and despite what you may see on graphs showing no increase in demand, that is due to conservation and smart-meters, not suddenly people using less energy. Your PC of 10 years ago uses the same amount of energy as a new one, but it conserves more energy now when you walk away from it than 10 years ago. Now apply that to pretty much every appliance you buy except for the refrigerator. Take note of various initiatives to improve insulation, replace or seal windows in older buildings, and so forth.

Those conservation efforts will only go so far. One 40 story condo tower likely uses the same amount of electrical energy of the 2 2-story buildings it replaced, but it undoubtedly has gas boilers and high-efficiency water heating that the old building did not. So if the city of Vancouver decides to force new developments to run electricity for all thermal heating, there will be a reversal of conservation effects.


How this translates into Skytrain extensions is that rolling out more electrically powered transportation will increase electricity demand. If you can cut part of your commute with a rapid transit line, then that increases the amount of distance you can go without charging the car. Electric cars are here, we've been asking for them for 30+ years. They are about twice the cost of a ICE-based car, so they will take some time for the costs to come down, or the price of fuel makes running them uneconomical (the maintenance alone on a gasoline car makes them uneconomical once the powertrain warranty is up, so you are likely will have to replace gasoline car twice as often as a electric car, but we don't have those statistics yet, and won't until 2040.)

[Reecemartin]

You make a good point, I actually think especially in regards to electric cars that we under predict how quickly they will take over. I imagine a point not too far in the future where a sea change occurs and electric cars are simply accepted as the logical best choice.

Look at generations who are just getting their licences (at record low rates), these generations are much more used to plugging in phones than fuelling vehicles.

[WarrenC12]

All autonomous vehicles will be electric. They will be totally viable as an Uber/taxi replacement in 2-3 years, even with regulatory delays I would expect them to be on the roads in BC in under 5.

[bardak]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

All autonomous vehicles will be electric. They will be totally viable as an Uber/taxi replacement in 2-3 years, even with regulatory delays I would expect them to be on the roads in BC in under 5.

People have been saying that for 2, 3, even 5 years. Until things change we should try to plan around what we do have.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by bardak

People have been saying that for 2, 3, even 5 years. Until things change we should try to plan around what we do have.

Autonomous vehicles won't be a reality for at least the next 10-15 years. The technology might be there before that, but the biggest hurdle will be regulatory approval.

If we can't even get basic rideshare like Uber in Vancouver, you really think autonomous vehicles will be allowed any time soon?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Autonomous vehicles won't be a reality for at least the next 10-15 years. The technology might be there before that, but the biggest hurdle will be regulatory approval.

If we can't even get basic rideshare like Uber in Vancouver, you really think autonomous vehicles will be allowed any time soon?

Uber is already operating autonomous cars on the roads in Pittsburgh.

You can see the Tesla video of their self driving Model X.

10-15 years? No way.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Uber is already operating autonomous cars on the roads in Pittsburgh.

You can see the Tesla video of their self driving Model X.

10-15 years? No way.

Tesla's aren't 100% autonomous.

Uber was testing autonomous in California and got shut down.

This stuff isn't coming to Vancouver for at least another 15 years.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Once the M-Line is fully built out with a poco spur ow long will it be?

By the M.Line built out, do you mean Arbutus and / or UBC? And is the "poco spur" not The Evergreen Line? just trying to clarify your information request

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Tesla's aren't 100% autonomous.

Uber was testing autonomous in California and got shut down.

This stuff isn't coming to Vancouver for at least another 15 years.

We can agree to disagree. I'll bookmark this conversation for later.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

We can agree to disagree. I'll bookmark this conversation for later.

I hope to be proven wrong. I just don't see the CoV and BC regulators as very progressive.