Calgary International Airport II

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Back to YYC.... I'll try and look at the summer changes soon... a few increases on a few routes.

And to think you used to be the grim reaper when you'd post in this thread.

Looking forward to what information you can supply us with.

[yyc_engineer]

Do you guys think there is any room left for Encore growth south of the border in the short term (2017/18)? With the success of YYZ-BNA (Nashville), this got me thinking about what else could realistically be done with the 78 seaters in this time of abysmal exchange rates.

Some routes that come to mind:
YYC-GEG (Spokane)
YYC/YVR-SEA
YYC/YVR-PDX
YVR-SMF (Sacramento)
YYZ-IAD/DCA (Washington DC)
YYZ-ORD (Chicago)

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Do you guys think there is any room left for Encore growth south of the border in the short term (2017/18)? With the success of YYZ-BNA (Nashville), this got me thinking about what else could realistically be done with the 78 seaters in this time of abysmal exchange rates.

Some routes that come to mind:
YYC-GEG (Spokane)
YYC/YVR-SEA
YYC/YVR-PDX

With no real inside knowledge I'd have to think the GEG route could be good to use for connecting traffic onto WestJet's transatlantic ops.

SEA is pretty crowded now with AC, AS, and DL on the route which could make it a tougher sell.

PDX would be awesome (from a tourist perspective), is AC year round on that route now (looks like Th, Fri, Su, Mo right now)?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Do you guys think there is any room left for Encore growth south of the border in the short term (2017/18)? With the success of YYZ-BNA (Nashville), this got me thinking about what else could realistically be done with the 78 seaters in this time of abysmal exchange rates.

Some routes that come to mind:
YYC-GEG (Spokane)
YYC/YVR-SEA
YYC/YVR-PDX

I will restrict myself to YYC related destinations. But generally speaking there is limited opportunity for Encore transborder growth for the following reasons.

GEG is an airline wasteland for everyone, exception is WN/Southwest. WN takes about 1.7 million pax per annum and the other 5 airlines split the remaining 1.4 million pax. I'm also unsure if the WN 1.7 million pax are all O&D GEG. WN likes to schedule milk runs, so the airplane runs SEA-GEG-BOI with most of the pax staying on the airplane at GEG.

The biggest problem with Spokane area is that the major economic generator is "boots on the ground" agriculture. Few head offices or regional offices to support a robust airline program beyond cheap trips on WN.

Most of the traffic history on YYC-GEG occurred prior to open skies. The only available route was YYC-GEG, but because of preclearance at YYC, once the airplane landed in GEG it could continue onto LAX, SFO, DFW, etc.

SEA and PDX are possible on Encore, but would require a tighter relationship with DL to become profitable.

A short term problem on YYC-SEA is that DL needs all the international pax it can get to bolster its argument for greater USCBP and airport processing capacity. If DL were to coordinate with WS, Encore pax will not be counted as DL pax. Therefore all flying must be done on DL metal. Once ground is broken on the new international arrivals facility, DL will have some more flexibility coordinating with their pax.

Overall I am pleased with the inclusion of BNA on WS. However I would have preferred ATL over BNA.

I could see PDX, however DL is launching PDX-LHR this summer and has long history on PDX-AMS. Again, a tight coordination with DL is required to make this route work for Encore.

I don't see much transborder or domestic growth potential with WS continuing to be so independent. However a comprehensive joint venture with either AA or DL opens the door to many avenues for growth. I believe that DL is the better partner for the following reasons:
- DL all ready has joint ventures with other airlines, Virgin Atlantic and Aeromexico (new development.
- Route networks are more complementary between DL and WS.
- DL's CEO (Ed Bastian) has publicly mused about placing a significant investment in WS once their hookup with Aeromexico is complete.

Here is what could happen at YYC under a DL-WS partnership:
- Encore 2x day SEA (WS and DL fight it out with a divided AC and AS).
- Encore 3-5x week PDX (give AC some competition).
- Mainline 3-5x week ATL (connect to the heart of DL world, however BNA would probably be a casualty).
- Mainline 3-5x week DTW (this would replace ORD).
- Widebody LHR (replace LGW, go toe to toe with AC for the same costs as going to LGW, LHR slots provided by Virgin Atlantic).

[Cage]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

At the airport this morning in the new terminal. No true Nexus meant it was the first time my shoes came off at an airport since 2015. Entry from US border protection to the duty free works well. I can see why in the international side the flow would be more bunched and not work as well. Also at this time of year/day there is way more families on the international side.

Also, the Sky Interior in the 737 seems to work well. Air Canada and WestJet will both have it pretty soon too.

Please do put a comment/complaint to CATSA regarding lack of Nexus processing at YYC checkpoint E. Here is the weblink. https://www.catsa.gc.ca/questions-comments-and-complaints

Do it as one of the three things for Calgary/Canada. yeah I'm not joking. One of top priorities for getting YYC out of the recession is to sell Calgary around the world. However our new terminal has a dramatically poor transborder preboard screening experience compared to other airports in Canada. Filling out a complaint form is the only method to getting true Nexus preboard security screening back at YYC international terminal.

Regarding the sky interior, Westjet and AC will be getting the space interior on the 737max. The space interior is better than sky interior. Here is a youtube video on the differences between the space and sky interiors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfacBnut_U4

[jmt18325]

That's really cool.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by Cage

Please do put a comment/complaint to CATSA regarding lack of Nexus processing at YYC checkpoint E. Here is the weblink. https://www.catsa.gc.ca/questions-comments-and-complaints

Do it as one of the three things for Calgary/Canada. yeah I'm not joking

100% agreed. Absolutely. It's a big problem, and one that CATSA chooses to either not believe or ignore. CATSA, in their planning for the new terminal, seems to have significantly overestimated the benefits and impact of their "Plus" system.

And on the arrivals side, the CBSA layout remains a huge mess. As CalgaryCheese accurately labeled it a month ago, the passenger flow at Customs is a total "fustercluck". The designers who placed the kiosks and the queues clearly had no clue about what passengers entering the hall would be doing, so the 3-month-old space is already frequently overtaxed.

For non-NEXUS fliers in particular, the first welcome to Calgary is a downright chaotic and miserable experience if there's any volume of passengers in the hall. And like CATSA on the outbound, the folks at CBSA don't seem to realize that. (They've rejigged it just enough that they can get their jobs done, I suppose.)

Just like CATSA on the arrivals side, it seems like CBSA will only take action on fixing that arrivals area if there is a sufficient volume of direct feedback. Their site for that is here: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/contact/feedback-retroaction-eng.html

(Perhaps let's all make that the second thing we do for Calgary/Canada?!)

For both CATSA security screening and CBSA, the airport authority seems to be shrugging the issues off as not their jurisdiction (and therefore not their problem). Not sure if YYC is lobbying either agency in the background ... I sure hope they are.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ The plus system seemed to work fine for the Nexus Line. I doubt it works well at all for families going south though. Not sure anything would.

At least they were actively telling us as we went through, not just correcting everyone.

Also, when did shoe checking come back in Canada? Only had it in Houston in the last 5 years. I'll make a note to submit the complaint!

[casper]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

^ The plus system seemed to work fine for the Nexus Line. I doubt it works well at all for families going south though. Not sure anything would.

At least they were actively telling us as we went through, not just correcting everyone.

Also, when did shoe checking come back in Canada? Only had it in Houston in the last 5 years. I'll make a note to submit the complaint!

The shoe checks have been normally procedure in Canada for pre-clearance flights going to the US for years. Not done on domestic and international areas of the airport. I believe it has something to do with arriving at a domestic gate in US.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

^ The plus system seemed to work fine for the Nexus Line.

How's that? There is no true NEXUS security processing in the international terminal. Per CATSA's rules, at a checkpoint without true NEXUS, that means that members only get "front of line" privilege. That's all. And that's how it's set up in YYC's ITB now, even by CATSA's own admission.

So... at the E concourse entrance, there are multiple lines, all merging into one close-ish to the front. Regular passengers have one entrance. Premium another. Crew another. And NEXUS another. But all go to the exact same place, and the exact same level of screening.

No NEXUS privileges like not having to remove stuff from your bags. The only "privilege" is that you get to cut off some of the people who have been waiting in the regular line for longer than you have ... and you're expected to butt in when the lines merge, which is a bit uncomfortable for me.

Then, while concurrent loading of bins can prevent getting stuck behind a slow traveler, you still run a good risk of getting stuck behind them at X-ray or when waiting for your bins (and the conveyer has stopped, because "secondary" inspection has a jam-packed-full line of bins waiting for review).

The line-butting privilege at D and E here does not even come close to true NEXUS privileges that are offered at every other major airport in the country, nor does it match TSA Pre in the US.

[Policy Wonk]

My best recollection is Spokane was last served from YYC by Central Mountain Air.

Around 2005 Big Sky Airlines announced service from YYC to Spokane, Boise and Kalispell but I don't think any of the routes commenced.

Spokane is a community in decline, it's best days were fifty years ago.

I will just about guarantee that YYC-BNA is heavily subsidized.

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

100% agreed. Absolutely. It's a big problem, and one that CATSA chooses to either not believe or ignore. CATSA, in their planning for the new terminal, seems to have significantly overestimated the benefits and impact of their "Plus" system.

I have now experienced this, they have the exact same system at Gatwick and I didn't find it worked terribly well there either. Except they were pretty assertive about getting people to collect their bins and clear the line after going through.

All I see is a likely extremely expensive way of collecting bins.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by casper

The shoe checks have been normally procedure in Canada for pre-clearance flights going to the US for years. Not done on domestic and international areas of the airport. I believe it has something to do with arriving at a domestic gate in US.

Well, then it is horribly inconsistent in implementation. Not at YYZ T1 last spring, not at Dulles, Not in Calgary in August, nor Seattle.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

How's that? There is no true NEXUS security processing in the international terminal. Per CATSA's rules, at a checkpoint without true NEXUS, that means that members only get "front of line" privilege. That's all. And that's how it's set up in YYC's ITB now, even by CATSA's own admission.

So... at the E concourse entrance, there are multiple lines, all merging into one close-ish to the front. Regular passengers have one entrance. Premium another. Crew another. And NEXUS another. But all go to the exact same place, and the exact same level of screening.

They weren't merging regular passengers in right then, so the efficiency from only having seasoned passengers still existed. YMMV.

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

No NEXUS privileges like not having to remove stuff from your bags. The only "privilege" is that you get to cut off some of the people who have been waiting in the regular line for longer than you have ... and you're expected to butt in when the lines merge, which is a bit uncomfortable for me.

I've always found the "privilege" of cutting to the front of the line to be odd. Different screening rules for trusted travelers makes sense. Different lines to ensure the screening rules are applied properly for trusted vs. other travelers, makes sense. But gets you to the front of the line? WTF?

Likely, I'm just bitter that this enhancement started after I stopped my frequent business travel, and I've since let NEXUS expire. Doubtless, if I still had NEXUS, I would scream from the rooftops about the importance of butting in front of other travelers.

I don't particularly buy the "efficiency from only having seasoned passengers" argument I've heard either. Most security line-ups that I've been in have had the xray machine as the pure bottleneck. It can't move fast enough to serve the bags that people put in it, and nobody will spend money to have more machines with more staff. Unless CATSA+ is somehow different in this respect?

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by CrossedTheTracks

I don't particularly buy the "efficiency from only having seasoned passengers" argument I've heard either. Most security line-ups that I've been in have had the xray machine as the pure bottleneck. It can't move fast enough to serve the bags that people put in it, and nobody will spend money to have more machines with more staff. Unless CATSA+ is somehow different in this respect?

CATSA+ actually does have some advantages there.

The X-ray screen guys (there are multiple) are in a separate room, scanning images in an online queue

Under the regular system - one conveyer, one screen, one guy - it grinds to a halt frequently.

Under this system, approved bins are supposed to sail through ... and all bins for inspection are mechanically shunted to the side. In theory, it's a beautiful thing. No logjams. And that's often the case in my experience.

But the problem with CATSA+ here is that the managers and planners vastly overestimated the benefits. I've been stuck waiting for my carry-on at E concourse because the "for further inspection" line of bins after the X-ray is so full that the entire system grinds to a halt.

And when it's busy with one line open (often the new norm, it seems) the entire screening process takes much longer than in the old B concourse -- regardless of which line you join at the entrance.

[MalcolmTucker]

At 4:45 am they had 3 lines open. So maybe they are learning?

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

At 4:45 am they had 3 lines open. So maybe they are learning?

I think that's always been the case at morning peak. From what I've seen, they shut it down to a single line for the rest of the day ... though I'm not sure when that changeover happens.

Morning peak - when there actually are multiple lines open - would be an ideal time to dedicate one solely to NEXUS and crew!

[Cage]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

At 4:45 am they had 3 lines open. So maybe they are learning?

Originally Posted by Tobuz

I think that's always been the case at morning peak. From what I've seen, they shut it down to a single line for the rest of the day ... though I'm not sure when that changeover happens.

Morning peak - when there actually are multiple lines open - would be an ideal time to dedicate one solely to NEXUS and crew!

Morning peak CATSA has personnel for 4 lines at the international terminal. From opening to about 6:15am the split is 3 lines @checkpoint E and 1 lane at D.

By 6:30 the checkpoint E connections Center opens to handle the early morning connections from YxE YQR, Red deer, etc, so one lane is taken from checkpoint E.

Also around 6:45 am checkpoint D might need an extra lane open, so staff are pulled from either E, E connections, or Non-passenger screening to staff the additional lane at D checkpoint.

Thursdays and Fridays are particularly dicey for CATSA, at 7:30 WS has their OGG departure from E and TS has their Mexico departure from D, both flights are widebody aircraft. One of the checkpoints gets a long line up and the screening officers get whiplash from being sent between the two checkpoints.

The reason why a dedicated nexus lane at E doesn't work, staff moving over to D will pull down checkpoint E to a single open lane on a moments notice.

The problem is that Aeroguard needs the following minimum staff complement:
- 3 lanes on checkpoint E,
- 2 lanes on checkpoint D,
- 1 lane on checkpoint E connections,
- 1 lane on checkpoint D connections,
- 1 lane on the nonpax screening checkpoint.
- 1 floater lane of staff to handle breaks and no shows.
However Aeroguard wants to staff the new terminal with equivalent staff complement from the old checkpoint B, which had a maximum of 7 lanes.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

CATSA+ actually does have some advantages there.

The X-ray screen guys (there are multiple) are in a separate room, scanning images in an online queue

Under the regular system - one conveyer, one screen, one guy - it grinds to a halt frequently.

I've been stuck waiting for my carry-on at E concourse because the "for further inspection" line of bins after the X-ray is so full that the entire system grinds to a halt.

The X-ray tech in a separate room has its share of problems as well. Root cause is the X-ray tech cannot visually see the bin contents or give further instructions to the secondary inspection officer. Everything sent for further processing must go through the full inspection and probably rescanning to make sure all contents are okay. The scanner tech cannot comment to the secondary inspection officer "check this bag for two iPads", or visually inspect the side pouch of a backpack for an empty metal coffee mug.

The main culprit of grinding the system to a halt, parties selected for additional screening, aka SSSS or quad S. under quad S, 3-4 bins worth of contents need to be segregated and inspected.

The solution for checkpoint E is to mandate that a minimum of two lines are open at all times. One lane information regular stream pax and second lane for nexus, quad S, and crew. Quad S and crew have a puck placed into the appropriate bin to alert the X-ray tech. Nexus does not require shoes off (fewer bins), or the removal of laptops and liquid bags from the carry on. The only further process refinement to implement, the X-ray tech needs to be segregated between regular lane and special lane.

However the biggest problem with nexus preboard security screening is with CATSA's agent, Aeroguard. I have been directly told by Aeroguard managers they hate the nexus preboard screening system. The nexus lanes are the largest source of pax complaints and root clause of many staff errors. The line is heavily used by AC and UA pax, but not much by other airlines pax. WS regular line pax especially dislike the segregation of pax by trusted traveller status.

it's Aeroguard position that staff errors are reduced when all pax are treated to the same security standard. They view nexus card special rules as only saving the pax 15-30seconds of time, so what's the point. The nexus card holder convenience adds a lot of stress and frustration to the screeners.