Edmonton Construction 13 (November 2015)

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by kcantor

what you hope for - and the assumption that requires - only shows you don't yet really understand the market at all Coldrsx.

Realities, wants, and hopes aren't not mutually exclusive and I am certainly aware of all three.

[SHOFEAR]

What has Alldritt ever built? anything beyond SFH and duplexes?


CC mall...I live a block and a half away. It's easier to do most of my shopping elsewhere while i'm running errands or have to be somewhere else in town. Good on them for investing in their drunk tank errr I mean food court.

[rapid_business]

Alldritt has/is developing land. Has built some office and a couple older multi's if I'm not mistaken.

As I said in the general construction thread, add this to the pie-in-the-sky pile. Will never happen. Do other cities have this where they release a rendering of something ridiculous, send a press release and it gets gobbled up as easily? Seems like something that happens a little too often here.

[feepa]

Most of this current discussion isn't construction related? Maybe we can move it over to the retail thread?

Originally Posted by Xelebes

Hey guys, let's try to keep this thread more for construction updates. Quite a few participants in this thread would rather keep this thread for the latest updates on construction and what not. If you have an itch to ramble on any other topics, please create a new thread. If you have suggestions or having musings on what could be done, please use the Urban Design thread. Let's free this thread up for information on what is going on in Edmonton.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Rezone to the maximum for a flip? Still on my mind, has a lot of the signs, but prove me wrong Alldritt.

I'd also wonder how much prior geo-tech analysis has been undertaken to-date. I'd hazard that the cost to construct a suitable foundation at that site would be, ummm, huge.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by rapid_business

Alldritt has/is developing land. Has built some office and a couple older multi's if I'm not mistaken.

As I said in the general construction thread, add this to the pie-in-the-sky pile. Will never happen. Do other cities have this where they release a rendering of something ridiculous, send a press release and it gets gobbled up as easily? Seems like something that happens a little too often here.

Other cities? of course.

[McBoo]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

What has Alldritt ever built? anything beyond SFH and duplexes?


CC mall...I live a block and a half away. It's easier to do most of my shopping elsewhere while i'm running errands or have to be somewhere else in town. Good on them for investing in their drunk tank errr I mean food court.

I know Aldritt covets the land and doesn't want the City to build a look-out.

That said, really? An 80 story tower adjacent to the Convention Centre that went hundreds of per cent over initial cost estimates because the bank is unstable?

Count me among the doubters.

City Centre? Open for evening shopping would be a start. Especially when I can get everything I need done with a single LRT fare to Southgate.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by McBoo

I know Aldritt covets the land and doesn't want the City to build a look-out.

That said, really? An 80 story tower adjacent to the Convention Centre that went hundreds of per cent over initial cost estimates because the bank is unstable?

Count me among the doubters.

City Centre? Open for evening shopping would be a start. Especially when I can get everything I need done with a single LRT fare to Southgate.

i'm not sure how many "hundreds of percent over initial cost estimates" it may have been but the majority of it is not likely attributable to the stability or instability of the bank itself. it's my understanding it took thousands of added cubic yards (this was pre-metric) of concrete to complete pouring the foundations as it presumable overfilled into uncharted adjacent mine shafts, probably adding to the banks overall stability. regardless, the convention centre structure has subsequently performed admirably including the addition of hall d on top (although we may have been better served without that, that's a different discussion). there is no way the proposed building - or any building for that matter - would actually have it's foundations supported by the bank without having them excavated down to bedrock or glacial till (like epcor tower) or set on piles (like stantec). either option would effectively make the bank being replaced by structure much more stable than it is now.

[GreenSPACE]

My concerns about Alldritt is: what will entice people to purchase there? The North American model is to build high in the core and low density outward. It means that, for example, two buildings like Icon I/II captured the majority of the demand for condos Downtown in 2006/2007 boom. The demand can be induced (Ice District) but is limited in other places. People buying condos Downtown want to live within a few hundred metres of walkable amenities. The location might be great for views, but that's only part of why people choose to live there. Nothing against tall towers, I just think this one is in an odd location, will take 4-5 years of pre-sales just to get out of the ground. At the same time we can't even get the buildings across the street renovated and other lots in Quarters infilled. There are negative consequences to building this tall that have to be acknowledged. If they can pull this off, all the better to them. I'd just be concerned about the affect on land economics as City Council.

[s4.audios]

Originally Posted by GreenSPACE

My concerns about Alldritt is: what will entice people to purchase there? The North American model is to build high in the core and low density outward. It means that, for example, two buildings like Icon I/II captured the majority of the demand for condos Downtown in 2006/2007 boom. The demand can be induced (Ice District) but is limited in other places. People buying condos Downtown want to live within a few hundred metres of walkable amenities. The location might be great for views, but that's only part of why people choose to live there. Nothing against tall towers, I just think this one is in an odd location, will take 4-5 years of pre-sales just to get out of the ground. At the same time we can't even get the buildings across the street renovated and other lots in Quarters infilled. There are negative consequences to building this tall that have to be acknowledged. If they can pull this off, all the better to them. I'd just be concerned about the affect on land economics as City Council.

I would agree with you 4-5 years in pre-sales, but this development will be half hotel. If they land a large hotel chain, this can and may actually have a chance to start even then. Residential purchase will gain traction if shovels are in the ground.

[Kevin_foster]

They want to have shovels in the ground by 2018. Says CTV.

Quite frankly, the costs to geoengineer a tower on that bank... let alone build 80 storeys tall..... in or following a recession..... not as a business case, but as a legacy for the Aldritt family... seems a little more than far fetched...

The Pearl cost $240,000,000. I can imagine this thing would cost at least $400,000,000.

That's one expensive monument.

[noodlenoodle]

Who's left for a major hotel chain that's not located within ~10 blocks of the proposal & would be willing to be one of the vanguards into a transitional neighbourhood?

[McBoo]

^^^ Hundreds may have been an overstatement alright Ken - but I seem to recall the initial cost estimate was $30m+ and the final bill came in at not quite $82m. (I know, I know, source is wiki, take it fwiw)

Still believe this is just a placeholder to keep the CoE at bay from building a walkway and look-out till they come clean with what they really intend.

Not to say if the final product is really that tall and really looks like the rendering it wouldn't be a handsome addition to the skyline ...

[Kevin_foster]

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

Who's left for a major hotel chain that's not located within ~10 blocks of the proposal & would be willing to be one of the vanguards into a transitional neighbourhood?

Western Budget

[EdmTrekker]

As I understand the Alldritt proposal will include conference space that can/may connect directly into the Convention Centre. I get that from the live interview and the video. There may be an opportunity for the City through EEDC to partner in the Alldritt development to expand the Convention Centre into this space rather than expanding "elsewhere". A hotel within the joint complex would give the City a big leg up in attracting conventions. I can see lots of upsides to the project.

[Coldrsx]

http://wpmedia.edmontonjournal.com/2016/...ters-in-downto.jpeg?quality=55&strip=all

[Coldrsx]

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Kevin_foster

They want to have shovels in the ground by 2018. Says CTV.

Quite frankly, the costs to geoengineer a tower on that bank... let alone build 80 storeys tall..... in or following a recession..... not as a business case, but as a legacy for the Aldritt family... seems a little more than far fetched...

The Pearl cost $240,000,000. I can imagine this thing would cost at least $400,000,000.

That's one expensive monument.

i don't know what the pearl's budget was but at 240 million and 128 suites that's an average per suite construction - not sales - cost of 1,875,000 per suite which strikes me as more than a little high...

[Coldrsx]

Yup, maybe 120mil.

[MalcolmTucker]

Symphony is $47m according to this: http://majorprojects.alberta.ca/details/Symphony-Tower-Condo-Building

And one of the guardian towers in Calgary is $72.5m: http://majorprojects.alberta.ca/details/Symphony-Tower-Condo-Building