Edmonton Retail Thread

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by s211

Why would the city have/need that?

I assume it has something to do with their 311 Call Centre that is on the third floor of the old Eaton's. This was likely part of their lease deal with Oxford.

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

Are you telling me that not a single retail unit has been leased? If this was any other city, businesses would be clamouring all over each other to locate at such a high-visibility intersection. Sometimes I want to shout "screw this city!"

Perhaps they are asking far too much for the space? Perhaps there are offers under contract? We don't know based on the info in the brochure. I can attest from our experience with our developments that there is a healthy demand for good retail space.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by CMD UW

I assume it has something to do with their 311 Call Centre that is on the third floor of the old Eaton's. This was likely part of their lease deal with Oxford.

Nope, goes way back and was I believe originally part of the last attempt to revitalize downtown by subsidizing parking. City leases the whole parkade from Oxford and pays Oxford to operate it. It's actually a pretty sweet deal for the city due to how much the parking rates and demand have increased over the past 10 years

[ibz]

Seems a lot of folks think that that reason there are not better retailers at ECC is because Oxford simply isn't trying to get them?

At the end of the day retailers make the decision on where they locate and to this point the demographs and potential for sales simply hasn't added up downtown to attract the stores many of you think should be in the core.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by ibz

Seems a lot of folks think that that reason there are not better retailers at ECC is because Oxford simply isn't trying to get them?

At the end of the day retailers make the decision on where they locate and to this point the demographs and potential for sales simply hasn't added up downtown to attract the stores many of you think should be in the core.

Trying to get them is a bit of a challenge when you prioritize a mall just north for a variety of reasons. Sadly, we are simply in a position where we have too much competition in specific region of the city and it becomes a lose, lose.

We, us, Oxford and others need to decide what our priorities are.

A new food court and some additional parking does not an asset or downtown make. Frankly it is embarrassing, but somewhat understandable given our support of the mall. Again, chicken and egg.

Collectively we need to support ECC and ensure that Oxford and its partners make real change in its composition, because at the moment it is certainly not gaining customers.

Time for true colours folks.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Trying to get them is a bit of a challenge when you prioritize a mall just north for a variety of reasons. Sadly, we are simply in a position where we have too much competition in specific region of the city and it becomes a lose, lose.

We, us, Oxford and others need to decide what our priorities are.

A new food court and some additional parking does not an asset or downtown make. Frankly it is embarrassing, but somewhat understandable given our support of the mall. Again, chicken and egg.

Collectively we need to support ECC and ensure that Oxford and its partners make real change in its composition, because at the moment it is certainly not gaining customers.

Time for true colours folks.

if you think oxford defers edmonton city centre leasing or management or development/redevelopment potential in favour of Kingsway garden mall then you're only demonstrating how little you know about the two assets and the asset manager and their beneficial ownership structures and fiduciary obligations relating to the two properties... it's not an "either/or" priority set. the assets are different, their markets are different and the asset manager's responsibility is to maximize the potential of both, not sacrifice either for the sake of the other. if there is any "trading off" going on, it's with tenants like the bay, not the asset manager/landlord. and they're easier to influence - their interest follows their customers and their customers' dollars. whining at the landlords will do nothing to change those priorities.

[canucklehead2]

ECC needs new anchor tenants plain and simple. Unfortunately I don't see that happening unless Nordstrom decides to take a chance on the downtown, which to me seems unlikely. I could see them taking over Sears at WEM, Kingsway or even Bonnie Doon but who knows...

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by kcantor

if you think oxford defers edmonton city centre leasing or management or development/redevelopment potential in favour of Kingsway garden mall then you're only demonstrating how little you know about the two assets and the asset manager and their beneficial ownership structures and fiduciary obligations relating to the two properties... it's not an "either/or" priority set. the assets are different, their markets are different and the asset manager's responsibility is to maximize the potential of both, not sacrifice either for the sake of the other. if there is any "trading off" going on, it's with tenants like the bay, not the asset manager/landlord. and they're easier to influence - their interest follows their customers and their customers' dollars. whining at the landlords will do nothing to change those priorities.

Not in favour, but the impact and influence of Kingsway on ECC is real. Oxford has been doing a good job reworking ECC in many ways, but it is an under performing asset and partly because/at the expense of being so close to Kingsway.

Again, we all need to help in the re-work of ECC.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Not in favour, but the impact and influence of Kingsway on ECC is real. Oxford has been doing a good job reworking ECC in many ways, but it is an under performing asset and partly because/at the expense of being so close to Kingsway.

Again, we all need to help in the re-work of ECC.

are you really still trying to suggest that oxford would be doing anything different/better with ecc if kingsway was part of someone else's portfolio?

[dansk]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Not in favour, but the impact and influence of Kingsway on ECC is real. Oxford has been doing a good job reworking ECC in many ways, but it is an underperforming asset and partly because/at the expense of being so close to Kingsway.

Again, we all need to help in the re-work of ECC.

In which way should we help in the re-work of ECC? Ian you mentioned that Oxford has been doing a good job of reworking ECC, but I would challenge that. If they were indeed doing a good job they would be creating something unique and an actual draw compared to other shopping centres in the Edmonton region. Until they can figure out how they are going to leverage their asset and proximity to the Ice District they will continue to be sub-par.

IMHO Oxford needs to be bold with this opportunity if they actual want to be successful. Otherwise shoppers are going to head to other locations.

Oxford is accountable for bringing excellent shopping experiences to Edmonton, not good enough for Edmonton of 1980/90's. Their lack of moment on that property shows their lack of understanding of the market and how it has changed.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Originally Posted by CMD UW

Exactly my thoughts too, they RELOCATED/CONSOLIDATED a food court(s).

I hope Caffe Sorrentino are staying as it's my usual (and super convenient) coffee joint for meetings.

I talked to the barista there this morning and she says their plans are still up in the air. But their goal is to stay as long as there is appropriate space for seating and such.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by kcantor

are you really still trying to suggest that oxford would be doing anything different/better with ecc if kingsway was part of someone else's portfolio?

If Kingsway was sold to NAIT and repurposed or demolished ECC would see a boom. Southgate would not have seen the expansion and success it has if Heritage Mall was operating. There is no way ECC and Kingsway are performing as well as either could if there were only one. I doubt either are high performing assets for OMERS at present. I would bet they are at the bottom of the list.

[s211]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

If Kingsway was sold to NAIT and repurposed or demolished ECC would see a boom. Southgate would not have seen the expansion and success it has if Heritage Mall was operating. There is no way ECC and Kingsway are performing as well as either could if there were only one. I doubt either are high performing assets for OMERS at present. I would bet they are at the bottom of the list.

Nor is OMERS deep with enclosed retail malls, versus CF or IC. OMERS might also not have sufficient bench strength to pull the weight needed, maybe?

[240glt]

We toured some of the assets back east last year, Yorkdale is a nice asset.

But yes there are some bigger players in the retail mall game

I don't think that diminishes Oxford's abilities in the least though

[240glt]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

If Kingsway was sold to NAIT and repurposed or demolished ECC would see a boom. Southgate would not have seen the expansion and success it has if Heritage Mall was operating. There is no way ECC and Kingsway are performing as well as either could if there were only one. I doubt either are high performing assets for OMERS at present. I would bet they are at the bottom of the list.

It's quite obvious You don't have a clue what you're talking about

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by 240glt

It's quite obvious You don't have a clue what you're talking about

at least he's not lonely.

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

I talked to the barista there this morning and she says their plans are still up in the air. But their goal is to stay as long as there is appropriate space for seating and such.

Good to hear. I wonder where they would go. It would be nice to have street front presence as well as access to the mall.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by kcantor

are you really still trying to suggest that oxford would be doing anything different/better with ecc if kingsway was part of someone else's portfolio?

I would hope so, but do understand the retail market/its consumers and its challenges in this fair city. Opportunity cost is a real challenge for Downtown.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by dansk

In which way should we help in the re-work of ECC? Ian you mentioned that Oxford has been doing a good job of reworking ECC, but I would challenge that. If they were indeed doing a good job they would be creating something unique and an actual draw compared to other shopping centres in the Edmonton region. Until they can figure out how they are going to leverage their asset and proximity to the Ice District they will continue to be sub-par.

IMHO Oxford needs to be bold with this opportunity if they actual want to be successful. Otherwise shoppers are going to head to other locations.

Oxford is accountable for bringing excellent shopping experiences to Edmonton, not good enough for Edmonton of 1980/90's. Their lack of moment on that property shows their lack of understanding of the market and how it has changed.

Choose it when you can instead of just going to other options.

Oxford has been doing good things behind the scenes with the mall from all reports on making it safer, more inviting and reworking it in preparation for its next phase in life, but it is truly lacking any kind of retail draw.

Here's hoping there is something forthcoming.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

I would hope so, but do understand the retail market/its consumers and its challenges in this fair city. Opportunity cost is a real challenge for Downtown.

what you hope for - and the assumption that requires - only shows you don't yet really understand the market at all Coldrsx.