Calgary International Airport II

Originally Posted by Tarsus

I would think so too. The folks on the YEG thread seem to think that will be the end of BA in YYC.

1) Anybody here in YEG with a brain thinks no such thing.

2) YEG 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 and nothing of note happens here so that leads to YYC talk.

Originally Posted by Tarsus

If I lived in Edmonton I'd probably rant too. It's gotta be tough watching Calgary get all the cake, and with the new terminal opening things will just keep getting better for YYC.

Our new rink, bridge, and ring road thoooo

[ST1]

Originally Posted by Acey

1) Anybody here in YEG with a brain thinks no such thing.

2) YEG 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 and nothing of note happens here so that leads to YYC talk.

There are lots of people in YEG with a brain, but there are a few people in the YEG airport thread who appear to be missing one Lol

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by ST1

There are lots of people in YEG with a brain, but there are a few people in the YEG airport thread who appear to be missing one Lol

Yes, agreed, just a very select few with bitter souls.

Did we already talk about Hainan down to 2x weekly?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Acey

Did we already talk about Hainan down to 2x weekly?

Only in regards to Hainan possibly having to shift some frequencies to make other potential routes possible.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Acey

Did we already talk about Hainan down to 2x weekly?

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Only in regards to Hainan possibly having to shift some frequencies to make other potential routes possible.

Looks like the shift down to 2x weekly is happening except for January.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airl...h-america-service-changes-as-of-13sep16/

So what can we take from this? Did they need a frequency for their new Las Vegas flight and YYC is performing weak so it gets the reduction?

Without diving into things it doesn't look great to see a brand new service reducing this quickly. Would an Air Canada/Air China flight be in a better position to serve a route such as this?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

So what can we take from this? Did they need a frequency for their new Las Vegas flight and YYC is performing weak so it gets the reduction?

Without diving into things it doesn't look great to see a brand new service reducing this quickly. Would an Air Canada/Air China flight be in a better position to serve a route such as this?

The big take-away is that HU has transferred the winter 2016-17 schedule from marketing team to the operations team. Further the operations team is beginning to roll out their desired changes. In Chinese airline scheduling, each network scheduling team is distinct and there is no central authority that takes precedence. Bickering and fighting are common place and each team that receives a schedule will make adjustments according to their own priorities.

Here's a hypothetical example:
- Forward bookings for pEK-YYC are good with great yields due to their being no competition.
- Forward bookings for PEK-YVR are good but yields are extremely poor because of the competition from five other airlines in the YVR market.
- operations short term scheduling (30-90 days out) gets the schedule and determines that one flight must be cut due for operational reasons (congestion at PEK).
- YVR gets retained because the network scheduler has heard of YVR whereas YYC is completely unknown. YYC is cut despite the fact that yields are better on YYC compared to YVR.

It's also important to remember that YYC-NRT was reduced to 2x weekly during its first winter season.

Overall HU has to maintain minimal frequencies on the route otherwise it is considered abandoned by CAAC. Two frequencies per week is fine by me while the route is further developed into a better performer.

[Avgeek]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

So what can we take from this? Did they need a frequency for their new Las Vegas flight and YYC is performing weak so it gets the reduction?

I'd blame it on the Chinese economic slowdown or the lack of business loads on both ends. Are there any stats on the load percentages for YYC-PEK on HU?

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Without diving into things it doesn't look great to see a brand new service reducing this quickly. Would an Air Canada/Air China flight be in a better position to serve a route such as this?

I'd rather wait until the Air Canada/Air China JV is approved before seeing a potential service between YYC and PEK on either AC or CA. Also, I rather wait until Beijing's second airport is completed by 2019 before we could see them serve this route.

On the other hand, due to China's one route one airline policy, I would expect Air Canada be in a better position to serve YYC-PEK over CA should HU continue to serve this route.

[zahav]

I thought the dissolution of the Westjet/BA codeshare, and the Delta/KLM/Air France partnership was discussed here, but can't find the message, so I'm re-posting this I posted on the YEG forum... Westjet is definitely aligning with Skyteam more and more:

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

Guess we know some other reasons why BA and One World are out and SkyTeam: Delta, Air France, KLM are in:

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/274-a-2016

WestJet, on behalf of itself, Compass, SkyWest and Delta, has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for an approval to permit WestJet to provide its scheduled international service between Canada and Mexico by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by Compass, SkyWest and Delta between the United States of America and Mexico, for a period of three years or such longer period as may be authorized by the Agency.

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/266-a-2016

WestJet, on behalf of itself and Air France, has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for an approval to permit Air France to provide its scheduled international service between France and Canada via the United States of America, and between France and beyond Canada to the United States of America, by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by WestJet between Canada and the United States of America, for a period of five years or such longer period as may be authorized by the Agency.

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/267-a-2016

WestJet, on behalf of itself and KLM, has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for an approval to permit KLM to provide its scheduled international service between the Netherlands and Canada via the United States of America, and between the Netherlands and beyond Canada to the United States of America, by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by WestJet between Canada and the United States of America, for a period of five years or such longer period as may be authorized by the Agency.

This just posted on airlineroute.net; yet another Skyteam member that Westjet is teaming up with. Even if they aren't joining an alliance formally, this is obviously pointing to a major lineup with Skyteam's carriers..

AeroMexico in the first quarter of 2017 plans to expand codeshare partnership with WestJet, mainly covering service to/from Vancouver. Planned new codeshare routes, currently scheduled to commence from 10JAN17, as follow.

AeroMexico operated by WestJet
Vancouver – Calgary
Vancouver – Edmonton
Vancouver – Kelowna
Vancouver – Prince George
Vancouver – Winnipeg

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airl...re-expansion-in-1q17/?platform=hootsuite

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Acey

Did we already talk about Hainan down to 2x weekly?

I ushered in that possibility last week on the Canadian airports thread.....

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

If YYC doesn't meet their expectations, i could see them downgrade YYC to 2x weekly and start YVR-TSN with 3x weekly service, if they so desperately want to enter that market.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Only in regards to Hainan possibly having to shift some frequencies to make other potential routes possible.

Nonetheless, clearly a sign the route launch was just a slot grab to prevent CA from jumping on YYC-PEK. It wasn't a well planned process. 2 weekly service isn't ideal. The front end of the cabin will suffer.

If they do launch 3x weekly YVR-TSN, then YYC-PEK will stay 2x weekly year round until the Canada-China bilateral is renegociated.

Originally Posted by Cage

It's also important to remember that YYC-NRT was reduced to 2x weekly during its first winter season.

Difference being, YYC-PEK might stay 2x weekly year round if HU launch TSN-YVR. That's not ideal at all. And, in my opinion, it will prevent AC from launching YYC-PEK, since another competing carrier is operating the route. Remember reading somewhere AC wasn't happy another carrier launched PEK-YYC. Wouldn't be too far fetched to think AC might hold off on launching PEK-YYC.

Besides, i keep hearing rumors that AC will launch 2x or 3x weekly YUL-PEK, to complement CA's 4x weekly service on the route. With the JV, this would make total sense. CA doesn't have access to more slots into Canada, so AC will help out.

Originally Posted by Avgeek

I'd blame it on the Chinese economic slowdown or the lack of business loads on both ends.

Neither, most likely, was the main reason. The Canada-China bilateral is probably the culprit. Still, Hainan could have planned things more efficiently.

Originally Posted by zahav

AeroMexico operated by WestJet
Vancouver – Calgary
Vancouver – Edmonton
Vancouver – Kelowna
Vancouver – Prince George
Vancouver – Winnipeg[/I]

Clearly AM is in no hurry to serve Alberta on its own metal.

Originally Posted by Cage

It's also important to remember that YYC-NRT was reduced to 2x weekly during its first winter season.

Wasn't the tsunami a factor in that?

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Clearly AM is in no hurry to serve Alberta on its own metal.

That's too bad. I flew Aeromexico YVR-MEX at the beginning of the month and had a great experience on their 738. I would highly recommend Mexico City as a travel destination if you haven't been!

Finger's crossed we still get MEX-YYC in the near future.

[jmt18325]

It's on my list. I plan to do a few days there, and a few days in SMA - just not sure when, since there are a lot of places on my list.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Acey

Wasn't the tsunami a factor in that?

That was one of the factors if I recall correctly.

[Johnny Aussie]

Looking further down the road, this reduction only appears to be until the end of March. Schedules show YYC-PEK returning to thrice weekly first week of April. There still is something in play with Hainan but nothing confirmed yet.

And despite there being no competition on a direct flight between YYC-PEK, Hainan does have to compete with AC via YVR and DL via SEA among others. There is a significant Star Alliance base in Calgary which would cause many passengers to skip the nonstop in favour of going on AC.

YYC's best option is of course to get a direct flight on AC.

As I alluded to before, with the restrictions on the number of flights between China and Canada, this route will have to be doing very well for it to grow.

In any event, by cutting the one flight a week (33%) most likely indicates the flight isn't doing swimmingly well.

[hoboman27]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Looking further down the road, this reduction only appears to be until the end of March. Schedules show YYC-PEK returning to thrice weekly first week of April. There still is something in play with Hainan but nothing confirmed yet.

And despite there being no competition on a direct flight between YYC-PEK, Hainan does have to compete with AC via YVR and DL via SEA among others. There is a significant Star Alliance base in Calgary which would cause many passengers to skip the nonstop in favour of going on AC.

YYC's best option is of course to get a direct flight on AC.

As I alluded to before, with the restrictions on the number of flights between China and Canada, this route will have to be doing very well for it to grow.

In any event, by cutting the one flight a week (33%) most likely indicates the flight isn't doing swimmingly well.

You think the effort/money spent on pursuing Hainan (by the airport folks) would have a negative impact on future efforts courting AC and CA? No one likes to be second choice. Of course this is if Hainan fails or maybe YYC wants Shanghai.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by hoboman27

You think the effort/money spent on pursuing Hainan (by the airport folks) would have a negative impact on future efforts courting AC and CA? No one likes to be second choice. Of course this is if Hainan fails or maybe YYC wants Shanghai.

I can tell you from speaking with an AC VP, there is no negative impact from YYCAA courting HU.

AC major problem in starting YYC-PEk is no commercially viable slots at PEK. Well that and CAAC refuses to grant international airlines the ability to obtain/trade slots at PEK. The present scenario will likely continue until Daxing airport is operational.

I also heard from the AC CEO at the May Chamber of Commerce luncheon, if AC gets scommercially viable year round slots at PEK, they will launch YYC-PEK.

If you are trying to compare HU at YYC vs FI or KLM at YEG; those are two different scenarios. No Calgary civic booster mentioned AC or the NRT route during the launch or promotion of HU coming to town.

[Mazrim]

I apologize if this has been answered before - kind of a dumb question, but are WestJet transborder flights going to be out of the new terminal once it's open? I hope I will be able to check out the new terminal when I fly out in mid-November.

Thanks!

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I apologize if this has been answered before - kind of a dumb question, but are WestJet transborder flights going to be out of the new terminal once it's open? I hope I will be able to check out the new terminal when I fly out in mid-November.

Thanks!

If the trials check out, the international terminal receives all the necessary permits and approvals, and the international terminal opens on October 31; then you will have to go through the new terminal during your mid November transborder trip.

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I apologize if this has been answered before - kind of a dumb question, but are WestJet transborder flights going to be out of the new terminal once it's open? I hope I will be able to check out the new terminal when I fly out in mid-November.

Thanks!

Cage gave you the long answer. The short answer is Yes! You most definitely will!