First Nations Issues

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

I am somewhat dismayed by the Trudeau government seemingly easing up on insisting First Nations chiefs and council publicly disclose financials.

I was originally in favour of that, but it was causing needless strife.

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

I wish I could remember the name of the band that is having some success in dealing with child endangerment by utilizing the following approach: parents, rather than children are removed from the home when the agency identifies a problem. They are allowed back after doing some work on their problem.

In the interim the children are cared for by extended family and community workers. Apparently this approach has better outcomes and other bands are looking at it.

Of course the bands own the houses on reserve so I don't know how this model could be enforced off reserve.

Child Protection Services. (Saskatchewan)

Two years ago, I flew a planeload of kids ranging in age of approximately 4-8 years old out of Wollaston Lake, SK to Prince Albert. And you know what? They were the best kids ever!!!!

It is so sad as to what some kids have to endure.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

I'm a teacher. My job for the last 2+ years is specifically with at-risk youth, the vast majority have CFS involvement. Most still live with relatives including a parent in situations where there is stability with a parent (A parent being a key phrase here).

It takes a lot for CFS to apprehend a child. I work with kids who live in what amount to drug houses (selling, open use, parties, encouraging child to use) with family or a parent and CFS won't apprehend. They provide services, but won't apprehend. It takes a lot.

Most of the youth I work with who are in-care have been given up voluntarily, often abandoned in a literal sense. How do you force someone to be a parent if they don't want to be one? CFS can't do much there. They'll work with almost anyone who is parent or close relative who will provide a roof.

It's good to be idealistic and take a real simplistic overview of the situation, but you won't find many people who actually work with affected youth to any depth on the bandwagon you're on. If anything there is probably a need for more kids to be taken into care in Manitoba, but no resources. Bottom line, if it isn't safe, if kids are being exploited and put into a lifestyle at 7-8-9 years of age or younger that basically guarantees that they will have no chance to develop into functional adults, what should be done?

There is a lot of work to be done to repair communities and families, it's happening, but it's also longer term. It's not going to change much for the 12 year old kid living with an addict mother who is now pushing her to sell herself to pay for drugs today.

You're still not answering why Manitoba apprehends at ten times the rate of the rest of the country. That's great that you think we have to. I don't care. That just demonstrates that you're part of the broken system and can't see the forest for the trees.

The rest of the country knows a better way. Why don't you?

[biguc]

As Tacheguy and SkydivePilot just noted, Saskatchewan has a better system.

Instead of arresting kids for having bad parents, they arrest the parents for being bad parents. There you go.


1/27 people in Canada are in Manitoba. 1/3 kids in care in Canada are in Manitoba. These numbers do not add up.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by biguc

CFS is obviously over-apprehending though; at ten times the rate of the entire rest of the country combined. Nearly one third of all kids in care in the entire country are aboriginal kids in Manitoba. I'm repeating those points because they're staggering statistics that defy common sense.

I'm not suggesting that they should never apprehend. But every other province in Canada is apprehending at such a drastically lower rate than Manitoba that something has to give.

Are conditions really that much worse for Manitoba kids than Saskatchewan, Alberta, or Northern Ontario kids? Even if they are that much worse, could it be because CFS keeps apprehending kids, creating toxic environments rife with addiction and suicide, which in turns feeds a vicious cycle of apprehension and desperation?

Curious where the stats are from?

[biguc]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/aborig...-improve-canada-s-track-record-1.3129189

[Urban recluse]

Actually, I was just going to post that story, haha.

Great points.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by biguc

As Tacheguy and SkydivePilot just noted, Saskatchewan has a better system.

Instead of arresting kids for having bad parents, they arrest the parents for being bad parents. There you go.


1/27 people in Canada are in Manitoba. 1/3 kids in care in Canada are in Manitoba. These numbers do not add up.

It would be interesting to see a balanced statistical analysis, not just spin from all sides.

As I said earlier, the vast majority of children I work who have CFS involvement, even some who are wards, are living with close relatives or parents in permanent placements with supports to stay in those homes. Arrest the parents, someone has to take care of the kids. That's what happens everywhere, just how you spin it.

You're assuming that apprehending means removing kids from families and communities entirely. That's not the case at all in my experience. I only work with children from what is designated as Eastern and Central Manitoba, including Winnipeg, though. Not sure if there is a secret CFS conspiracy to funnel kids off remote first nations to the city without their family. Most of the FN kids I see are removed from their reserve by at least a generation, so I can't give you any help there.

I know you're caught up in the macro here, but on a case-by-case basis safety of the child has to be the #1 concern. Most of the mistakes they've made that have resulted in children dying have been returning or keeping them in homes with relatives who were not capable of raising them.

The whole situation defies common sense.

I won't be voting NDP anytime soon, probably won't vote for anyone honestly as there's not a lot of good ideas bouncing around, but the Healthy Child programming they have introduced has been beneficial and will hopefully take a bite out of CFS down the line.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

It would be interesting to see a balanced statistical analysis, not just spin from all sides.

As I said earlier, the vast majority of children I work who have CFS involvement, even some who are wards, are living with close relatives or parents in permanent placements with supports to stay in those homes. Arrest the parents, someone has to take care of the kids. That's what happens everywhere, just how you spin it.

You're assuming that apprehending means removing kids from families and communities entirely. That's not the case at all in my experience. I only work with children from what is designated as Eastern and Central Manitoba, including Winnipeg, though. Not sure if there is a secret CFS conspiracy to funnel kids off remote first nations to the city without their family. Most of the FN kids I see are removed from their reserve by at least a generation, so I can't give you any help there.

I know you're caught up in the macro here, but on a case-by-case basis safety of the child has to be the #1 concern. Most of the mistakes they've made that have resulted in children dying have been returning or keeping them in homes with relatives who were not capable of raising them.

The whole situation defies common sense.

I won't be voting NDP anytime soon, probably won't vote for anyone honestly as there's not a lot of good ideas bouncing around, but the Healthy Child programming they have introduced has been beneficial and will hopefully take a bite out of CFS down the line.

I believe the point is. Here in Manitoba there is zero penalty for this. Yet in Saskatchewan there is severe penalty.
Now if I was going to have 5-10 kids I'd pick Manitoba as nothing will happen to me. Now in Saskatchewan I'd think about it.
Fix the fact that FNs in simple terms have way to many kids. They cannot support one let alone 10.

[Urban recluse]

Agreed. Strong leaders in the community need to repeatedly stress this. Focus on yourself; get educated and employed before having children. There are time I feel as if they are being told the opposite just to spite the rest of us (including the government).

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

It would be interesting to see a balanced statistical analysis, not just spin from all sides.

As I said earlier, the vast majority of children I work who have CFS involvement, even some who are wards, are living with close relatives or parents in permanent placements with supports to stay in those homes. Arrest the parents, someone has to take care of the kids. That's what happens everywhere, just how you spin it.

You're assuming that apprehending means removing kids from families and communities entirely. That's not the case at all in my experience. I only work with children from what is designated as Eastern and Central Manitoba, including Winnipeg, though. Not sure if there is a secret CFS conspiracy to funnel kids off remote first nations to the city without their family. Most of the FN kids I see are removed from their reserve by at least a generation, so I can't give you any help there.

I know you're caught up in the macro here, but on a case-by-case basis safety of the child has to be the #1 concern. Most of the mistakes they've made that have resulted in children dying have been returning or keeping them in homes with relatives who were not capable of raising them.

The whole situation defies common sense.

I won't be voting NDP anytime soon, probably won't vote for anyone honestly as there's not a lot of good ideas bouncing around, but the Healthy Child programming they have introduced has been beneficial and will hopefully take a bite out of CFS down the line.

These are fair points. I suppose a lot of the current CFS standards come from the Phoenix Sinclair tragedy, when CFS failed to apprehend. I think we can agree, though, that more resources need to go into dealing with poverty and addiction so that we can avoid scenarios that force the decision to apprehend.

[crocket]

Originally Posted by cllew

an ACROW panel bridge is being built across the cut (Total performance Jul 31/16) and I think there has to be a second bridge built over the aqueduct it self.

Apparently 673 is owned in part by a different band and there are "issues" with its use.

Yes, a road a road that is ridiculously long, serving a tiny population all because they don't want to use the new existing road the other reserve uses.

It is utterly insane.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by crocket

Yes, a road a road that is ridiculously long, serving a tiny population all because they don't want to use the new existing road the other reserve uses.

It is utterly insane.

I'll never understand this reserve.

They never had clean water. Ever,,,,,,
They never had a road ever,,,,,

Yet we are about to spend $46 million on them. They should use all the other free money they have been getting for decades on a water treatment plant for starters.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by cllew

an ACROW panel bridge is being built across the cut (Total performance Jul 31/16) and I think there has to be a second bridge built over the aqueduct it self.

Apparently 673 is owned in part by a different band and there are "issues" with its use.

One band didn't like the toll it was being charged by the other band, this is a — match and guess who ends up paying the price....Winnipeg taxpayers!

The CBC site had some real interesting and insightful comments on the dispute between the bands until the CBC stasi removed it all...

[biguc]

If you guys have a problem with this, invent a time machine and tell 1910s Winnipeg to treat the injuns like people.

Or at least refrain from whining about how natives can't pull themselves up by their bootstraps because we can't be fucked to build them basic infrastructure. You wonder why they don't have clean drinking water? It's because tight fisted — whine about giving freebees to natives, meanwhile paying more to ship in bottled water than simply fixing the problem would cost.


Most racist city in Canada, folks.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by biguc

Most racist city in Canada, folks.

—. When I was a kid in Toronto my family and I were refused service because we weren't Italian. Never had anything like that happen in Winnipeg.

As for the matter at hand, why isn't the federal government stepping in and telling people that you can't just put arbitrary tolls on roads ? Did that particular band build the road ? If they did then they have every right to charge outsiders a fee to use it. If they didn't then it's a hell of a lot cheaper to remind people of the rule of law than spend 46 million on a new road to serve such a tiny number of people.

[bomberjet]

Ah yes, the old racist card. Nothing but racism.

When in actuality it's just the freeloaders that most people have a problem with, including myself. There is no division when it comes to freeloading. Comes from every race and culture.

A recent murder trial for example. Guy and girl blow there welfare check on crack, etc. Girl kills the guy. That's my problem. Complete waste of everyones time and money.

[Jeff]

well, I know it's mostly marsh land in the area that this road is going through, but maybe there is an opportunity to open up some of the area to cabin development to recoup some costs?

and that house on stradbrook had a fire eons ago... glad to hear they are finally tearing it down!

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Jeff

well, I know it's mostly marsh land in the area that this road is going through, but maybe there is an opportunity to open up some of the area to cabin development to recoup some costs?

and that house on stradbrook had a fire eons ago... glad to hear they are finally tearing it down!

City and Province gave the band millions of dollars a number of years ago so the area would not get any cottage development that could potentially pollute the Indian Bay water intake area.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by biguc

If you guys have a problem with this, invent a time machine and tell 1910s Winnipeg to treat the injuns like people.

Or at least refrain from whining about how natives can't pull themselves up by their bootstraps because we can't be fucked to build them basic infrastructure. You wonder why they don't have clean drinking water? It's because tight fisted — whine about giving freebees to natives, meanwhile paying more to ship in bottled water than simply fixing the problem would cost.


Most racist city in Canada, folks.

Wow, over 100 years and people still want to live on a reserve with no opportunity, you do know why millions of people have immigrated to Canada right?

Members of my family survived two world wars, Hitler, Stalin and the Holocaust all after 1910, no one is bitching about drinking water or lack of opportunities.

If you don't like your life or where you live, change it should have been told to anyone living on First Nations reserves 50-60 years ago, they would have all been better for it today. Reserve system should have been abolished decades ago and the privileges that go with that, you want to be treated equally start acting like it!