First Nations Issues

[Cyro]

A thread that may be of interest to some in today's discussions, If one cares to wander into the discussion in depth..

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by biguc

You're traditionally an apologist for incumbent governments though.

The advantage of democracy is not that it delivers better government, only that it delivers different government. Corruption and entitlement fester in the NDP at every level simply because they've been in power too long.

Their worst crime is how they've ignored and downplayed the crisis in CFS, even going so far as to lie to the public about how they count kids in care. And their lies didn't even come close to covering up the fact that nearly 1/3 kids in care in all of Canada is an aboriginal kid in Manitoba. This situation is so outrageously bad I used the word 'crime' above without a hint of hyperbole, and I sincerely hope that after the NDP loses power, there will be a deep investigation into how things got so fucked up, which will land the people in this government who have been literally killing kids in jail.

This is THE election issue. You can spin deficits and bureaucratic weight all you want, but you can't spin dead kids. You can't spin a child protection service that apprehends kids at ten times the rate of the entire rest of the country.


Yet the party has been gallingly callous about it. Keri Irving Ross works up some crocodile tears here and there, but nobody does anything about it. Nobody cleans house on an obviously broken system. They just let it chug along, racist and morbid, ruining families and killing kids. Part of the proud tradition of residential schools and the '60s scoop.

I come from SW MB where we never really saw the first nation issue like it is portrayed in Winnipeg. That being said, it totally baffles me how this issue has been allowed to fester, bleed and infect not only the first nations children but their families, first nations leadership, Manitoba government public servants and the NDP party itself. There has been so much bad history on this file that nobody wants to spend the political capital to attack this issue head on and damn the hurt feelings to clean it up. This is a file that needs to be sorted out ASAP. We might as well write off this generation of children and focus all our efforts on the next and hopefully somebody can get this sorted out before we have another generation of lost kids.

[jmt18325]

My fiancee could have been one of those lost people, and almost was (she's not much older than a kid). You can't just write people off. It's not simple, and it's not something that non aboriginal people can largely solve, though we certainly have a part to play.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

My fiancee could have been one of those lost people, and almost was (she's not much older than a kid). You can't just write people off. It's not simple, and it's not something that non aboriginal people can largely solve, though we certainly have a part to play.

Maybe I was a little harsh, but some real soul searching needs to be done on the part of first nations leadership and the department of child and social services. What ever seems to be the current policy, wharehousing kids in downtown Winnipeg hotels does not seem to be a sustainable solution to the problem.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Maybe I was a little harsh, but some real soul searching needs to be done on the part of first nations leadership and the department of child and social services. What ever seems to be the current policy, wharehousing kids in downtown Winnipeg hotels does not seem to be a sustainable solution to the problem.

You're certainly right about that (though I believe that practice has largely ceased).

[biguc]

If there's one thing we should have learned by now it's that interfering with first nations has never worked out well. From what I've heard, the first nations want to keep their kids in their communities. That sounds like a great alternative to the apprehension-happy madness that prevails.

If there is any role for the child 'welfare' bureaucracy in all of this, it should be as hands-off parenting coaches, working to rebuild the families that generations of intervention have destroyed.

[esquire]

^ CFS is not apprehending kids just to give social workers something to do. There are parents who are literally a threat to the safety and well-being of their children.

Colonialism may be at the root of the problem in Manitoba, but taking a laissez-faire approach now means that you better be OK with a lot of size-small caskets being ordered in the near future.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by esquire

Colonialism may be at the root of the problem in Manitoba, but taking a laissez-faire approach now means that you better be OK with a lot of size-small caskets being ordered in the near future.

Also very true.

[biguc]

CFS is obviously over-apprehending though; at ten times the rate of the entire rest of the country combined. Nearly one third of all kids in care in the entire country are aboriginal kids in Manitoba. I'm repeating those points because they're staggering statistics that defy common sense.

I'm not suggesting that they should never apprehend. But every other province in Canada is apprehending at such a drastically lower rate than Manitoba that something has to give.

Are conditions really that much worse for Manitoba kids than Saskatchewan, Alberta, or Northern Ontario kids? Even if they are that much worse, could it be because CFS keeps apprehending kids, creating toxic environments rife with addiction and suicide, which in turns feeds a vicious cycle of apprehension and desperation?

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by biguc

CFS is obviously over-apprehending though; at ten times the rate of the entire rest of the country combined. Nearly one third of all kids in care in the entire country are aboriginal kids in Manitoba.

That's because it really is that bad. It's not an exaggeration. The situation that afflicts aboriginal children in Manitoba, on and off reserve, is really bad enough to warrant that.

[1ajs]

The wsd1 takes a 150million to run how's it only.cost 74 to run all those remote school no wonder

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

The wsd1 takes a 150million to run how's it only.cost 74 to run all those remote school no wonder

How many students are there in WSD in comparison to aboriginal reserves?

[biguc]

If so, why?

Maybe because apprehending kids instead of working with families leaves broken families and kids who grow up not knowing how to have a working family. And the cycle continues.


Aboriginal kids in other provinces, on and off reserves, grow up with similar poverty and social issues as kids here. Can you put a finger on any difference besides apprehension numbers? What I'm saying is that apprehension is not only a poor solution for the problems that kids face, but the cause of those problems. The destruction of families is a wound that's etched into generations, going back to residential schools. Apprehending kids today causes the same harm: children who grow up without parents never learn how to be parents.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by biguc

If so, why?

Maybe because apprehending kids instead of working with families leaves broken families and kids who grow up not knowing how to have a working family. And the cycle continues.

You can't leave them where they are.

Aboriginal kids in other provinces, on and off reserves, grow up with similar poverty and social issues as kids here.

Not really - not in the same kinds of numbers. Saskatchewan and Northern Ontario are the only places that come close, and it still isn't the same.

The why is difficult as there are many factors. The reality is stark though.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

That's because it really is that bad. It's not an exaggeration. The situation that afflicts aboriginal children in Manitoba, on and off reserve, is really bad enough to warrant that.

Some of the kids that are taken from aboriginal families are put into a worldwide satanic ring* by the elite and are "used" in SRA.

* Human trafficing.

[Tacheguy]

I wish I could remember the name of the band that is having some success in dealing with child endangerment by utilizing the following approach: parents, rather than children are removed from the home when the agency identifies a problem. They are allowed back after doing some work on their problem.

In the interim the children are cared for by extended family and community workers. Apparently this approach has better outcomes and other bands are looking at it.

Of course the bands own the houses on reserve so I don't know how this model could be enforced off reserve.

[Cyro]

First Nation Issues, CFS, residential schools ..etc moved here.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by biguc

If so, why?

Maybe because apprehending kids instead of working with families leaves broken families and kids who grow up not knowing how to have a working family. And the cycle continues.


Aboriginal kids in other provinces, on and off reserves, grow up with similar poverty and social issues as kids here. Can you put a finger on any difference besides apprehension numbers? What I'm saying is that apprehension is not only a poor solution for the problems that kids face, but the cause of those problems. The destruction of families is a wound that's etched into generations, going back to residential schools. Apprehending kids today causes the same harm: children who grow up without parents never learn how to be parents.

I'm a teacher. My job for the last 2+ years is specifically with at-risk youth, the vast majority have CFS involvement. Most still live with relatives including a parent in situations where there is stability with a parent (A parent being a key phrase here).

It takes a lot for CFS to apprehend a child. I work with kids who live in what amount to drug houses (selling, open use, parties, encouraging child to use) with family or a parent and CFS won't apprehend. They provide services, but won't apprehend. It takes a lot.

Most of the youth I work with who are in-care have been given up voluntarily, often abandoned in a literal sense. How do you force someone to be a parent if they don't want to be one? CFS can't do much there. They'll work with almost anyone who is parent or close relative who will provide a roof.

It's good to be idealistic and take a real simplistic overview of the situation, but you won't find many people who actually work with affected youth to any depth on the bandwagon you're on. If anything there is probably a need for more kids to be taken into care in Manitoba, but no resources. Bottom line, if it isn't safe, if kids are being exploited and put into a lifestyle at 7-8-9 years of age or younger that basically guarantees that they will have no chance to develop into functional adults, what should be done?

There is a lot of work to be done to repair communities and families, it's happening, but it's also longer term. It's not going to change much for the 12 year old kid living with an addict mother who is now pushing her to sell herself to pay for drugs today.

[Urban recluse]

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/7598232

[Urban recluse]

I am somewhat dismayed by the Trudeau government seemingly easing up on insisting First Nations chiefs and council publicly disclose financials.