The Great Canadian Skyline Thread!

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

When coming back from France, one kinda realizes that we Québécois are mostly just French-speaking Americans, rather than Frenchmen living in the New World.

I'm surprised anyone would need to travel to France to realize that.

[Chadillaccc]

http://amazingsky.net/2015/08/01/the-blue-moon-over-calgary/

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I'm surprised anyone would need to travel to France to realize that.

It's probably because when you travel to other parts of Canada or the U.S., it doesn't really feel ''exactly the same as home, except for the language'' either.

So this affects the perceptions of people who've never been overseas, and frames their views of how Quebec is distinct from the rest of North America (or not).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

When coming back from France, one kinda realizes that we Québécois are mostly just French-speaking Americans, rather than Frenchmen living in the New World.

I think that given your father's family roots in France, you probably have a more refined, distinct perspective on this than most people in Quebec who aren't as aware of the subtleties of French culture.

[Monolith]

woodward-sprawl by Devlon Duthie, on Flickr Taken on November 25, 2015


Foggy Morning by Devlon Duthie, on Flickr Taken on November 30, 2015


false-creek-morning by Devlon Duthie, on Flickr Taken on November 24, 2015

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think that given your father's family roots in France, you probably have a more refined, distinct perspective on this than most people in Quebec who aren't as aware of the subtleties of French culture.

I suspect that people usually view these differences more in a relative than absolute way. From a French perspective Quebec looks relatively American and from an American perspective Quebec looks French. A while back a French acquaintance of mine happened to bring up an upcoming trip to Montreal and I gave him somewhat different advice on what to expect than I would have given an American. Basically, "expect it to be 90% like here, except more people speak French". The fact that the eastern part of North America is a bit older isn't really going to register with somebody from Paris either.

One of the funny things I pick up on is the sliding scale of Frenchness in different parts of North America. What qualifies as "French" (or, say, who qualifies as "bilingual") varies a lot from place to place. Stuff that would not even register in a place like New Brunswick (or even NS) is seen as ultra "French" here (and Quebec sort of shares some of the same mental space France does, whereas in my mind for example that is about as silly as thinking that Alberta is like England).

It can be awkward for people who straddle two different cultures because both groups view them as somewhat unusual and foreign. Some Acadians are in the uncanny valley between Anglophone and Francophone and stand out no matter where they go.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

I suspect that people usually view these differences more in a relative than absolute way. From a French perspective Quebec looks relatively American and from an American perspective Quebec looks French. A while back a French acquaintance of mine happened to bring up an upcoming trip to Montreal and I gave him somewhat different advice on what to expect than I would have given an American. Basically, "expect it to be 90% like here, except more people speak French". The fact that the eastern part of North America is a bit older isn't really going to register with somebody from Paris either.

One of the funny things I pick up on is the sliding scale of Frenchness in different parts of North America. What qualifies as "French" (or, say, who qualifies as "bilingual") varies a lot from place to place. Stuff that would not even register in a place like New Brunswick (or even NS) is seen as ultra "French" here (and Quebec sort of shares some of the same mental space France does, whereas in my mind for example that is about as silly as thinking that Alberta is like England).
.

I also think that on here we're very preoccupied with urban form and architecture, and that this isn't necessarily the case for most people. Italians were for the most part perfectly happy in the U.S. even though the look and feel of the place were completely alien to them. And they didn't even have the language in common.

Australia is quite different from the UK in look and feel and yet Britons settle in very easily down there.

The same goes for a lot of French people who come to Quebec. The human contacts that come from having a common language are likely the most important thing. It does not really matter that there is a Walmart with a huge parking lot across the street.

On occasion I meet French people who live in English Canada or the U.S. who are visiting Quebec and they usually say stuff like it's nice to be here and that it feels a bit like home. (Compared to where they live I guess.) It's probably not the architecture or urban form that they're talking about, but about the language and the stuff that goes along with it: posters advertising the latest Astérix album, Francis Cabrel songs playing on the muzak in a grocery store, etc.

Obviously none of this means they are itching to move here. If you're French and moved to Charlotte, North Carolina, you've likely made your choice already.
If you're a Frenchman for whom it's important to live in a francophone environment in North America, you're likely living in Quebec already.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I also think that on here we're very preoccupied with urban form and architecture, and that this isn't necessarily the case for most people. Italians were for the most part perfectly happy in the U.S. even though the look and feel of the place were completely alien to them. And they didn't even have the language in common.

Some differences are due to the same people responding to varying conditions. I bet some people living in tiny flats in Naples would love to have a 3,000 square foot house on a big private lot and drive to Wal-Mart. If North America had first been settled by Chinese I bet they still would have ended up being "American".

A lot of things that people like in Europe are really just happy accidents that grew out of a lack of resources.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

It can be awkward for people who straddle two different cultures because both groups view them as somewhat unusual and foreign. Some Acadians are in the uncanny valley between Anglophone and Francophone and stand out no matter where they go.

Yeah. My wife and I used to be like this: too English for Quebec and too French for Ontario and the other provinces. We no longer feel this way as we've been living in Quebec long enough that we now fit in seamlessly. But every once a while something reminds us that we didn't grow up here.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Infrequent Poster

I wish they made mnp tower another 30-50 metres taller.

If you can actually believe it, there were a number of Vancouverite posters who argued strenuously that the MNP Tower was the perfect height; that to make it any taller would be an aesthetic diminishment to the city; that if the tower had been 6 storeys taller (and rose above the surrounding herd) they would have said, "That's a nice tower, but, dang, if only it was 6 storeys shorter. It could have been so sweet!"

[Coldrsx]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/735/23364166526_11cc06cd8d_b.jpg
BiKE on c2e

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

If you can actually believe it, there were a number of Vancouverite posters who argued strenuously that the MNP Tower was the perfect height; that to make it any taller would be an aesthetic diminishment to the city; that if the tower had been 6 storeys taller (and rose above the surrounding herd) they would have said, "That's a nice tower, but, dang, if only it was 6 storeys shorter. It could have been so sweet!"

I don't recall any posters saying that?

A lot of people said it made sense to have it at its current height given the small floor plate size, but not saying it would look worse if it were taller.

[mcminsen]

Downtown Vancouver, Dec.1st '15, my pics

[G.S MTL]

https://www.facebook.com/capslockmanny/

[SkahHigh]

^makes Downtown Montreal look like Cleveland

[G.S MTL]

I like the photo but again doesn't do justice for the downtown core... I don't see Cleveland to be honest lol.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I don't recall any posters saying that?

A lot of people said it made sense to have it at its current height given the small floor plate size, but not saying it would look worse if it were taller.

Very respectfully, LeftCoaster, your memory is slightly off. There were two primary discussions, one economic and one aesthetic. The economic discussion was regarding the likely economic reasons for the tower's current height. That discussion had to do with the floorplate size.

There was, however, a very robust aesthetic discussion about what the ideal height of the tower ought to be irrespective of economic/zoning/viewcone considerations. It is in the context of this purely aesthetic discussion that a number of posters were adamant that the MNP Tower's current height was ideal. Their primary reasons for this view was that a taller tower would destroy what they believed to be an ideal relationship with the building's context, namely the historic Marine Building. They worried that a taller tower would overwhelm or upstage the sanctity of the Marine Building, and thus the tower should remain the height it is even if economics/zoning/viewcones allowed for a taller structure.

I, on the other hand, argued that, if economics/zoning/viewcones allowed, a 2:1 difference in height between the Marine Building and the MNP Tower would not only create the ideal relationship between the historic and the modern, but would create a more perfect, iconic tower in its own right, not to mention a dynamic and varied city skyline, rather than further cementing Vancouver's infernal table-top in that part of the city, which unfortunately is precisely what it now does.

That's not to say that there was not at least one poster who thought the tower's height was aesthetically ideal in relation to its width (i.e., floorplate area), but this view was not representative of the much larger group of people who defended the tower's current height based on its relationship with the Marine Building.

And now, as I feared, the MNP Tower--one of Vancouver's most gorgeous concepts to come along in decades--is a building lost among the crowd and a failure at meaningfully changing the landscape of the city from most vantage points.

The thread is still there if you wish to refresh your memory.

[Darkoshvilli]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

^makes Downtown Montreal look like Cleveland

I don't see it.


http://photos.cleveland.com/photogallery/2010/01/aerial_photo_downtown_clevelan.html

[softee]

^ Yeah that shot of Montreal makes that shot of Cleveland look puny in comparison. Montreal looks far more massive.

[SkahHigh]

It was sort of a figure of speech but basically this is to say that Montreal's downtown looks really tiny from that angle.