Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Image courtesy of MIPS

That makes it look like they're transporting vampires on Skytrain

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by MIPS

In other news, the refurb has....somehow changed the MK I's acoustics. The LIM's now make a rather distinct whine at all times that's quite loud both in the train and from a good distance. (man does it echo through the night) I can't seem to find it in recordings I made in the last few years.

I believe that's related to the ongoing rail grinding work rather than the LIMs. I've definitely heard it on the Millennium Line, starting just after they did rail grinding.

[MIPS]

They are grinding as well as replacing sections? Yeah, that would do it as well then.

That makes it look like they're transporting vampires on Skytrain

Temporary storage for whatever they needed a hazmat crew for at the tunnel dig site last week.

[red-paladin]

There are definitely some sections of the Expo guideway that are horribly loud right now, but others that are completely fine. I'm not sure if that's from the actual train rail repairs or the power rail repairs. Hope that grinding fixes them.
Also, I was going to ask, has anyone seen a Mk I train that has had actual refurbishment and not just a paint job?

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

Also, I was going to ask, has anyone seen a Mk I train that has had actual refurbishment and not just a paint job?

I took a photo I think back in December 2013 of the car with the internal completely white and with the seats removed which was also one of the first to be refurbished. Also had LED lighting.


Image courtesy of MIPS

Closest I've ever seen and even the floor was not replaced.

[jsbertram]

Found this in the Canada Transit Thread:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

So here is the existing plus incremental funding the party campaigned on:

source: https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/investing-now/

New spending is this:

https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/08/An-historic-investment-plan.pdf

Changes to old spending is this:
Quote:
We will make the New Building Canada Fund more focused. By providing significant, separate investments in public transit, social infrastructure and green infrastructure, we will enable the New Building Canada Fund to make greater investments in Canada’s roads, bridges, transportation corridors, ports and border gateways, helping Canada’s manufacturers get their goods to market.
https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/new-building-canada-fund/

Also, for the provincial and city portions, for places that can't issue debt at as low of an interest rate as the federal government:
Quote:
Where a lack of capital represents a barrier to projects, the Canada Infrastructure Bank will provide loan guarantees and small capital contributions to provinces and municipalities to ensure that the projects are built.
https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/canada-infrastructure-bank%E2%80%A8%E2%80%A8/

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Really disappointing that they stopped refurbishing the insides of the car. Prior to 2015, they were removing several aisle seats to allow for more room and re-painting the insides. Now? Nothing.

Well, seeing as they were actually bringing a partially refurbished (as in painted only) car back to OMC2, my thinking is that perhaps they're doing it in stages?

As an example, 019-020 had the repainted interior (though the seats were the same) for a loooong time before they went ahead and repainted the exterior too.

Originally Posted by dpogue

I believe that's related to the ongoing rail grinding work rather than the LIMs. I've definitely heard it on the Millennium Line, starting just after they did rail grinding.

Yeah, I don't remember the eastbound section just before New West to be that horrible a year ago... (regardless of type of train)

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by dpogue

I believe that's related to the ongoing rail grinding work rather than the LIMs. I've definitely heard it on the Millennium Line, starting just after they did rail grinding.

I've noticed that coming into 22nd St Stn from Edmonds Stn it can get pretty loud with those MK1's.

• Video Link

[ssiguy]

It is great to see the old MK1's refurbished and see the Evergreen Line nearing completion. Outside of the Broadway ext maybe to Alma, SkyTrain {or any large rapid train line or extension} is an investment of diminishing returns.

The growth of Metro will not be in Van/Burn/Rich no matter how much Price wants it to be. Surrey and Langley are the growth leaders and this will only increase. As more people end up fleeing the city due to high real estate costs, SkyTrain becomes a less attractive option. The longer you have to travel on rapid transit the less rapid it become for you.

Vancouver must start refocusing it's priorities onto a true, effective suburban rail system. Toronto and Queen's Park have realized that trying to build subways to keep up with population growth is an impossible task financially as well as being the most time consuming construction of any rapid transit.

Toronto, in about 10 years will have a 600km GO rail suburban system. Totally electrified, and all day, each way service, with trains running at a MAXIMUM of every 15 minutes. The province just announced the potential of 50 new rail stations within the next 10 years.

Vancouver doesn't have the Golden Horseshoes 9 million people but it does have a cone shaped urban form which makes potential ridership higher. Suburban rail would make commuting from South of Fraser to Vancouver far more pleasant, much faster, more reliable, and would help reduce over crowding on the current Expo line. It would be vastly cheaper than trying to build SkyTrain thru the suburbs and much faster than an at grade LRT which will do nothing to decrease commute times.

The great thing about suburban rail is that, unlike SkyTrain or LRT, it can be phased in. More frequent service, electrification, all day 2 way trains, more stations are things that can be brought in gradually as opposed to other systems which are all or nothing.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Toronto, in about 10 years will have a 600km GO rail suburban system.

That's mostly because they've been able to take advantage of existing rail corridors. That's not such an easy win here in the lower mainland.

[logan5]

How much would it cost to build a simple railroad like the one the WCE runs on? Lots of (I presume government) land available along the freeways.

We don't follow the European model of 100's of km's of commuter rail lines, and we don't follow the American vast freeway system model. Something like 80% of commuters in Metro Vancouver drive to work. Hundreds of thousands of cars are crossing the various bridges and tunnels every day, so there is a huge potential customer base to draw from.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

There are definitely some sections of the Expo guideway that are horribly loud right now, but others that are completely fine. I'm not sure if that's from the actual train rail repairs or the power rail repairs. Hope that grinding fixes them.
Also, I was going to ask, has anyone seen a Mk I train that has had actual refurbishment and not just a paint job?

Really noticed it sitting at St Auggies on Commercial Drive. Quite a pronounced whine from MKI and MKII trains.

[st7860]

Most of the new residents will be in Burnaby and Coquitlam. Mini metro's are an increasingly popular option. Even during the lowest late night service level trains in Metro Vancouver come more often than that Toronto system. None of the skytrain lines are even cloes to their limits. All that is needed are more trainsets.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by logan5

How much would it cost to build a simple railroad like the one the WCE runs on? Lots of (I presume government) land available along the freeways.

We don't follow the European model of 100's of km's of commuter rail lines, and we don't follow the American vast freeway system model. Something like 80% of commuters in Metro Vancouver drive to work. Hundreds of thousands of cars are crossing the various bridges and tunnels every day, so there is a huge potential customer base to draw from.

While there are restrictions, like the one track entering the CN yeards through the cut, I think that with a couple of tunnels here and there, the Vancouver area has a potential,
especially on the eastern side, to develop a better commuter rail system. I live in Europe, and I've seen fantastic systems. Frankfurt springs to mind at once.
Where the's a will, there's usually a way, and I don't believe for a minute that bodies of planners and engineers have spent nearly enough time examining the possibilities here.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The growth of Metro will not be in Van/Burn/Rich no matter how much Price wants it to be. Surrey and Langley are the growth leaders and this will only increase. As more people end up fleeing the city due to high real estate costs, SkyTrain becomes a less attractive option. The longer you have to travel on rapid transit the less rapid it become for you.


Vancouver doesn't have the Golden Horseshoes 9 million people but it does have a cone shaped urban form which makes potential ridership higher. Suburban rail would make commuting from South of Fraser to Vancouver far more pleasant, much faster, more reliable, and would help reduce over crowding on the current Expo line. It would be vastly cheaper than trying to build SkyTrain thru the suburbs and much faster than an at grade LRT which will do nothing to decrease commute times.

This has been commented about on here before and I'm sure it will be again. Not everyone is travelling to Vancouver. A lot of people living South of Fraser also work there.

A major reason people drive is because transit doesn't take them where they need to go. Travelling around the region is still difficult, which is an improvement over what it used to be. Any sort of rapid transit (be it bus, rail, etc) that connects the regional centers without having to travel through Vancouver will be well used.

[go_leafs_go02]

Hindsight I'd argue that the Expo line corridor should have been built as a commuter heavy rail line instead of SkyTrain.

Then there would be capacity to keep extending it out to Langley.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Sheba

This has been commented about on here before and I'm sure it will be again. Not everyone is travelling to Vancouver. A lot of people living South of Fraser also work there.

A major reason people drive is because transit doesn't take them where they need to go. Travelling around the region is still difficult, which is an improvement over what it used to be. Any sort of rapid transit (be it bus, rail, etc) that connects the regional centers without having to travel through Vancouver will be well used.

I've sometimes thought an rrt line going east from Richmond, then connecting up to the East Fraser River developments, New West, and the rest of the system might be surprisingly effective; maybe, maybe not.

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Hindsight I'd argue that the Expo line corridor should have been built as a commuter heavy rail line instead of SkyTrain.

Then there would be capacity to keep extending it out to Langley.

Agreed there should be an emphasis on commuter rail to Langley and beyond, becuase that's where commuter growth will be strongest.
With a bit of infrastructure, maybe a line couls be put underground from about Powell (where they're a level crossing already) and joined to the mainline east.
From there it coyld branch east to Cloverdale, Langley, Abbey, and Chilliwack. This may not seem important to many people now, but wait 30 years, or less.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Hindsight I'd argue that the Expo line corridor should have been built as a commuter heavy rail line instead of SkyTrain.

Then there would be capacity to keep extending it out to Langley.

A lot of the Expo mainline in Vancouver, Burnaby and New West is built alongside the former B.C. Electric (now BCHydro) rail lines, so those ROWs are still available to have tracks re-laid and run trains (passenger or freight) again.

There are some issues where the former ROW has been built over, but that's a problem for the engineers to figure out.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

A lot of the Expo mainline in Vancouver, Burnaby and New West is built alongside the former B.C. Electric (now BCHydro) rail lines, so those ROWs are still available to have tracks re-laid and run trains (passenger or freight) again.

There are some issues where the former ROW has been built over, but that's a problem for the engineers to figure out.

Funny, I recall wondering why they didn't use that old ROW for Sktrain when it was built.
Could that old ROW be converted into suburban rail? Could pieces of the rail be cut and covered a bit? (Help out the neighbors enormously)
Could this be the root for the route of a Central Fraser Valley line, eventually going to Langley, Abbotsford, Chilliwack? It will be required in several decades. Better to put in, now, perhaps?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

I've noticed that coming into 22nd St Stn from Edmonds Stn it can get pretty loud with those MK1's.

• Video Link

I've noticed that. They also go round a curve on that stretch, and that probably plays a role in it.