Canada Election 2015

[Migs]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No, there is no "class warfare" in Canada. What he is doing is asking the wealthiest among us to pitch in a bit more, something many are willing to do.

To whom much is given, much is expected.

Much is given? Are you referring to those on welfare who could be bothered to find a job?

[flar]

Originally Posted by Migs

So Trudeau wants to spy on Canadians. Oh how I love irony.

https://bcblue.wordpress.com/2015/10/06/...ying-on-canadians-media-party-go-silent/

Do you really get your news from some random guy's blog?

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No, there is no "class warfare" in Canada. What he is doing is asking the wealthiest among us to pitch in a bit more, something many are willing to do.

To whom much is given, much is expected.

It's not just the wealthy who pay more, It's also financially stable households like mine who have made and are making wise decisions. Increasing that burden, both directly through me, but also indirectly through the large companies I have invested into with RRSP's and TFSA's, the very large company I work for, and my clients and their clients is not something I want.

This is what I don't get about the people who view large corporations (and the wealthy) as some sort of endless bank account that can be taxed to fund all sorts of nice things and view taxing these companies like they are some sort of bubble who don't have trickle down effects. Your not effecting some monocle wearing cigar smoking industrialist.....your effecting the middle class who works for and invests in these companies.

Paying my fair share is one thing, but being disproportionately burdened is not fair.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by shreddog

There are LOTS of reasons to not vote for Harper, however what you linked to is a personal opinion piece penned by a prolific TORONTO based writer who has it out for non-"Left" politics.

Stephane Marche is a great writer and uses his skills to blast the politics of those he does not agree with. Nothing wrong with that. But again, what you point to is a NOT fact based assessment of Harpo, but rather one person's opinion.

And just to counter, here is another personal opinion published shortly after that debunks all of Stephane's points - especially the debate accusation as Harpo did 5 debates instead of the 2 Stephane was so upset about.


Definitely exercise your right to vote, but do so from a position of knowledge, not by being influenced by the opinion of skilled author. Or as Bond would say, " A cunning linguist."

Ok I've read Frum's article. Here are the items I took from the first article, and Frum's responses:

Debates - Frum disagrees, seems convincing
Gag orders - Frum disagrees, but his example seems to more or less agree
Press conferences - Frum disagrees, seems convincing
defund research centres - does not comment
scientist gag orders - does not comment
long form census - does not comment
Fords support - does not comment
Senate scandals - does not comment
Robocalls - does not comment
Fair Elections Act - does not comment
Tough on Crime/Prisons - does not comment
Citizenship revokation - does not comment
Pipelines - does not comment
Dollar - does not comment
Recession - does not comment

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Migs

Much is given? Are you referring to those on welfare who could be bothered to find a job?

Actually, it's a biblical reference cited by people like Bill Gates. Andrew Carnegie as well, back in the day. But I know you know that.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by flar

Do you really get your news from some random guy's blog?

I don't know anything about that source, but the point is intriguing. If CSE is prohibited from monitoring Canadians, as I thought was the case, the need for a warrant to do so seems moot. The blog is merely trying to score a point, but the issue could do with a bit of clarification. The Liberal intent would be to make eavesdropping more difficult rather than easier, one must assume.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by flar

Do you really get your news from some random guy's blog?

I read opinions from various blogs regarding politics. It is not his opinion what Trudeau said.

[kwoldtimer]

Random (and non-partisan, really!) question - Will the Conservatives and the NDP be putting out a consolidated platform document of the sort that the Liberals put out yesterday? With all the promises that have been flying around during the campaign, it gets difficult to be sure who has committed to what? It really seems second best to have to rely on occasional news reports comparing the party positions on various issues.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Actually, it's a biblical reference cited by people like Bill Gates. Andrew Carnegie as well, back in the day. But I know you know that.

I guess my sarcasm went right over your head.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Migs

I guess my sarcasm went right over your head.

No, it was so offensive that it seemed better to play it straight.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Migs

So Trudeau wants to spy on Canadians. Oh how I love irony.

https://bcblue.wordpress.com/2015/10/06/...ying-on-canadians-media-party-go-silent/

Turns out the platform calls for warrants to exercise an existing power that CSE can currently use with just a ministerial permit. So a tightening up of the current practice.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by geotag277

My biggest problem with Harper is probably all the pages he took out of the Neo-Con Dick Cheney style playbook, from borderline insane military brandishing to the politics of divisiveness evident in the Niqab issue.

It will feel good to send a strong signal to attempt to vote out these political institutions, but we have to remember two things.

It's the reason why:

* Most of rural and small town Canada, west of the Ottawa River, has been put out of reach by the Conservatives and the opposition parties are no longer competitive in those ridings, even though they have lost significant ground primarily in Greater Toronto and Greater Vancouver.

* The Conservatives (and Bloc) have made significant late inroads in Quebec, especially outside Greater Montreal.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No, it was so offensive that it seemed better to play it straight.

What is offensive about saying those on welfare are given much for free? Are you offended when someone tells you the sky is blue? Always gotta be offended by something I guess, it's the leftie way.

[Tfreder]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No, there is no "class warfare" in Canada. What he is doing is asking the wealthiest among us to pitch in a bit more, something many are willing to do.

To whom much is given, much is expected.

Asking the wealthy to pay more simply because they have more makes no sense. Sure, you hear instances of large corporations having overseas tax shelters, and it understandably makes people angry. But, there's also individuals who fraud the system, in the form of tax fraud, insurance scams, and even welfare abuse; not everyone who screws the system is exclusively wealthy. However, by raising taxes, you aren't punishing the ones who avoid paying tax since they will just continue to avoid paying tax. You'll be punishing the individuals who continue to pitch in and already pay their taxes.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Ok I've read Frum's article. Here are the items I took from the first article, and Frum's responses:

Debates - Frum disagrees, seems convincing
Gag orders - Frum disagrees, but his example seems to more or less agree
Press conferences - Frum disagrees, seems convincing
defund research centres - does not comment
scientist gag orders - does not comment
long form census - does not comment
Fords support - does not comment
Senate scandals - does not comment
Robocalls - does not comment
Fair Elections Act - does not comment
Tough on Crime/Prisons - does not comment
Citizenship revokation - does not comment
Pipelines - does not comment
Dollar - does not comment
Recession - does not comment

Perhaps I should not have said "all", however Frum did touch on many of the ones you said "does not comment".

That said, I am not here to argue for either Frum or Marche or Harpo - rather to remind all that many so called ""news articles" are often personal opinion pieces - on both sides of the spectrum. I know many people (not saying you) who felt that Marche's article was a scathing review of Canada by a "neutral third party" as opposed to a partisan political piece.

Regardless, as the saying goes, "vote early and vote often"!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Tfreder

Asking the wealthy to pay more simply because they have more makes no sense. Sure, you hear instances of large corporations having overseas tax shelters, and it understandably makes people angry. But, there's also individuals who fraud the system, in the form of tax fraud, insurance scams, and even welfare abuse; not everyone who screws the system is exclusively wealthy. However, by raising taxes, you aren't punishing the ones who avoid paying tax since they will just continue to avoid paying tax. You'll be punishing the individuals who continue to pitch in and already pay their taxes.

Actually it makes lots of sense because it is easier for wealthier people to pay more. A $100 tax on somebody who earns minimum wage is onerous but its impact on somebody with a million dollars (let alone a billion) is negligible.

There's also a problem with the assumption that wealth is something that comes purely from an individual's work. Aside from hermits living in the woods, nobody operates in isolation in Canada. If you have a business and it is successful you are relying on money that comes from other people. The national and global economy exists because it is supported by cooperation and public investment. In order to keep the money flowing and to generate more wealth there needs to be more investment.

[SignalHillHiker]

Some of the shop window propaganda common downtown.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by shreddog

There are LOTS of reasons to not vote for Harper, however what you linked to is a personal opinion piece penned by a prolific TORONTO based writer who has it out for non-"Left" politics.

Stephane Marche is a great writer and uses his skills to blast the politics of those he does not agree with. Nothing wrong with that. But again, what you point to is a NOT fact based assessment of Harpo, but rather one person's opinion.

And just to counter, here is another personal opinion published shortly after that debunks all of Stephane's points - especially the debate accusation as Harpo did 5 debates instead of the 2 Stephane was so upset about.


Definitely exercise your right to vote, but do so from a position of knowledge, not by being influenced by the opinion of skilled author. Or as Bond would say, " A cunning linguist."

He never said it was fact. He said it summed up how he felt and why he wouldn't be voting for Harper.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by csbvan

The Conservstives weren't under-projected in Ontario, and in Alberta the far right party was actually over projected. I don't think you can generalize.

I'm speaking in regards to national numbers.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Migs

So Trudeau wants to spy on Canadians. Oh how I love irony.

https://bcblue.wordpress.com/2015/10/06/...ying-on-canadians-media-party-go-silent/

And yet Harper proposes a tip hotline to tattle on your neighbour, a security bill with purposely vague definitions and language that can be applied to almost any citizen, employs an army of social media spies to monitor his own MP's not to mention regular Canadians, and that's fine? I swear Trudeau could do away with taxes all together and you'd still be in disagreement.