Calgary International Airport II

[McMurph]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

I think you have them switched; Mirabel (YMX) is outside of the city, YUL/Dorval/Pierre Elliott Trudeau is close to downtown Montreal.

Mirabel is irrelevant. Trudeau (Dorval) is about 20km from downtown Montreal -- pretty well exactly the same distance as YYC is from downtown Calgary.

[Policy Wonk]

YMY was the downtown Montreal airport. It closed in 1976 because Transport Canada and the city couldn't reach a deal to extend the lease on the site.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Blader

Cage

We've a lot of great contributers to this thread, but IMO, you take the cake. My hat is off!! Thank you.

Thank you for the compliment.

[KrisYYC]

Does anybody know any specifics on what looks like two new hotels being built right off Airport Tr? I can't seem to find any info on them. I don't see any info the proposals thread either.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

It could just be accounting differences - business taxes might flow threw YUL via the ground leases, whereas Calgary is direct.

Even if done on a different tax treatment basis, accounting rules would still allow for ADMTL to net off the taxes from revenue.

Looking at the financials, it appears as although ADMTL is right, their property taxes are way higher than comparable Canadian airports. My guesstimate as to the reasons:
(1) Montreal's terminal complex had a lot more improvements over the past ten years. Calgary's property tax will increase as well once the new terminal is operational. Same situation will occur for the new Arena, whenever King gets around to announcing the details.
(2) taxes are indeed higher in Quebec, no doubt about it.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by KrisYYC

Does anybody know any specifics on what looks like two new hotels being built right off Airport Tr? I can't seem to find any info on them. I don't see any info the proposals thread either.

Out by Park2Go there are three hotels franchised for the Hilton chain. Another 5 hotels will go up in the area that are independent.The hotel activity is to account for the closure of Barlow Trail, once the hotels are built, the existing places around McKnight area will have harder time getting connection passengers from the airport.

[KrisYYC]

Originally Posted by Cage

Out by Park2Go there are three hotels franchised for the Hilton chain. Another 5 hotels will go up in the area that are independent.The hotel activity is to account for the closure of Barlow Trail, once the hotels are built, the existing places around McKnight area will have harder time getting connection passengers from the airport.

Thanks!

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by KrisYYC

Thanks!

There is one on the SE side of Deerfoot/Airport trail partially completed/open. Plus 3 on the NE side that are in various stages of construction. No signs indicating who they will be

[Johnny Aussie]

So for the first time since 2009, YYC has posted a monthly decline in passenger numbers.

http://www.yyc.com/en-us/media/factsfigures/passengerstatistics.aspx

Overall down 0.4%
Domestic down 0.9%
Transborder down 3.0%
International up 8.0%

Still up overall YTD at 0.95%.

So I suppose we knew this day was coming with the slowdown but overall not too bad I would say.

[lubicon]

International numbers will be the next to take a hit. Right now they are still reflecting trips that had been planned months ago, I have to think going forward a lot of people are rethinking any vacation plans etc. Booking from here on out will likely be affected I would say.

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

So for the first time since 2009, YYC has posted a monthly decline in passenger numbers.

🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. Hope we don't see any service reductions, especially for Int. flights (that means you BA!!)

IFP Check-In Hall panorama below for your Tuesday afternoon viewing pleasure.

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Hope we don't see any service reductions, especially for Int. flights (that means you BA!!)

As he said, int'l is up 8%

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Acey

As he said, int'l is up 8%

haha I read that, but was alluding to this:

Originally Posted by lubicon

International numbers will be the next to take a hit.

I would be over the moon if Int. numbers stay strong all year, in preparation for Beijing (hopefully) launching in 2016 - in what I like to call the "Year of the IFP"

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

I would be over the moon if Int. numbers stay strong all year, in preparation for Beijing (hopefully) launching in 2016 - in what I like to call the "Year of the IFP"

A huge chunk of the international figures for YYC is the sun destination flying which has increased this winter and will continue into the summer months.

Look at the amount of flights there are on Westjet, Sunwing, Air Transat and Air Canada to Mexico and the Caribbean.

Overall, overseas international capacity from YYC will be down slightly this year due to Air Canada's downgauging and TS axing FRA.

I'm more surprised at the lower transborder figures as capacity was quite a bit higher thanks mainly to Rouge and Westjet increasing flights and/or seats to various markets and Delta's new SEA route and additional AS flying to SEA too... offset slightly by reduced AA to DFW and slightly lower United capacity along with WS to MIA (almost forgot about that blip).

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

A huge chunk of the international figures for YYC is the sun destination flying which has increased this winter and will continue into the summer months.

Look at the amount of flights there are on Westjet, Sunwing, Air Transat and Air Canada to Mexico and the Caribbean.

Overall, overseas international capacity from YYC will be down slightly this year due to Air Canada's downgauging and TS axing FRA.

I'm more surprised at the lower transborder figures as capacity was quite a bit higher thanks mainly to Rouge and Westjet increasing flights and/or seats to various markets and Delta's new SEA route and additional AS flying to SEA too... offset slightly by reduced AA to DFW and slightly lower United capacity along with WS to MIA (almost forgot about that blip).

I am seeing weakness in LAX, LAS, and PHX this year. Most other destinations are holding strong. Appears that Caribbean and Mexico are holding strong against the USA sun destinations. Could be the strong US dollar is pulling down demand to USA.

International traffic up 8% is a big surprise. These trips would have been booked before or during the Christmas break for travel to the Sun destinations. I don't expect the international numbers to hold up in the near term. The economy will take unnecessary amount of blame for the international downturn. Media will not give any credence to International Sun being down because last winter was very cold. People will pay big bucks just to escape the extreme cold.

One piece of data I would love to get my hands on is true O&D numbers for YYC traffic. How many transborder pax really have international as their destination or origin. Example YYC-SFO-HKG. Same goes for domestic. I have a strong feeling that getting true O&D numbers would bolster our case for PEK, HKG, and few more scheduled European trips.

[DDP]

Originally Posted by Cage

Even if done on a different tax treatment basis, accounting rules would still allow for ADMTL to net off the taxes from revenue.

Looking at the financials, it appears as although ADMTL is right, their property taxes are way higher than comparable Canadian airports. My guesstimate as to the reasons:
(1) Montreal's terminal complex had a lot more improvements over the past ten years. Calgary's property tax will increase as well once the new terminal is operational. Same situation will occur for the new Arena, whenever King gets around to announcing the details.
(2) taxes are indeed higher in Quebec, no doubt about it.

The airports don't actually pay municipal taxes like other business, they sit in federal land and are tax exempt. What they pay is "payment in lieu of municipal taxes" this is derived from minister of finance office in Ottawa, and has no reflection on actual land value or worth, or billed from cities/provinces. A lot of it is local governments going to ottawa asking for higher taxes on airports so municipalities get more money. There is no actual set formula behind this.

This is separate from Airport rent where there is a long, convoluted formula that no one really knows - but Ottawa keeps that money.

[Luk_o]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. Hope we don't see any service reductions, especially for Int. flights (that means you BA!!)

IFP Check-In Hall panorama below for your Tuesday afternoon viewing pleasure.

IFP is looking awesome. Thanks for the update YYC Eng.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by DDP

The airports don't actually pay municipal taxes like other business, they sit in federal land and are tax exempt. What they pay is "payment in lieu of municipal taxes" this is derived from minister of finance office in Ottawa, and has no reflection on actual land value or worth, or billed from cities/provinces. A lot of it is local governments going to ottawa asking for higher taxes on airports so municipalities get more money. There is no actual set formula behind this.

This is separate from Airport rent where there is a long, convoluted formula that no one really knows - but Ottawa keeps that money.

Familiar with PILOT (Payment In Lieu Of Taxes) concept, but mostly as it relates to Utilities. Enmax for instance has a PILOT program enforced by the Alberta Utilities Commission. The province collects this money.

The ultimate source of the airport property taxes is somewhat related to land value. However this source comes from the days of Transport Canada owning and operating the airports. Transport paid the municipal government an amount for property tax. The difference was how to value the airport land, as there are no non federal government equivalent (e.g. private airports of the size of YUL and YYC).

Correct the airport rent formula is way too complicated to the point where it becomes a shake down.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Cage

Even if done on a different tax treatment basis, accounting rules would still allow for ADMTL to net off the taxes from revenue.

Looking at the financials, it appears as although ADMTL is right, their property taxes are way higher than comparable Canadian airports. My guesstimate as to the reasons:
(1) Montreal's terminal complex had a lot more improvements over the past ten years. Calgary's property tax will increase as well once the new terminal is operational. Same situation will occur for the new Arena, whenever King gets around to announcing the details.
(2) taxes are indeed higher in Quebec, no doubt about it.

Oh, all the land they still have for Mirabel, they would be paying PILTS on it. A whole lot! 24 square kilometers of farm and industrial land.

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Cage

Correct the airport rent formula is way too complicated to the point where it becomes a shake down.

Just another reason to do away with this archaic system of chains and shackles.