The Great Canadian Skyline Thread!

[Prometheus]

Strange conversation about the farthest western limit of Georgia Street. Here is a photo taken from the "big box rural parking lot" looking back east towards the building Klazu took his photo from:


Photo by globetrekimages:https://www.flickr.com/photos/globetrekimages/15305381324/in/photostream/

[Symz]

Wow, traffic.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Strange conversation about the farthest western limit of Georgia Street. Here is a photo taken from the "big box rural parking lot" looking back east towards the building Klazu took his photo from:

I don't think the photo he was talking about looked like a big box parking lot, but I do get the gist of what he was saying. The way the road turns just before the water almost makes it look like it ends in a cul de sac or something which does look suburban paired with Stanley Park in the b/g. More an illusion than anything. Also that part of Vancouver is basically a vertical suburb with hardly any street retail in all those condo point towers.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Funny, for most people the street level presence is what makes Vancouver.

It has by far the best gardening, landscaping, road / curb quality in the country for big cities (Vicotria wins in the gardening if expanded to smaller cities).

Definitely what I notice when there, Vancouver does street level extremely well, everything seems very inviting. Calgary is starting to do better, but we could learn a thing or two from how Van has developed the street level.

[1overcosc]

I can get where SHH is coming from. Us Easterners think of urban street level as a long streetwall of storefronts flush directly to the sidewalk. Big landscaped areas right on the street separating the street from the buildings just seems suburban-ish to us.

I mean, this picture looks very suburban to me.

Photo by globetrekimages:https://www.flickr.com/photos/globetrekimages/15305381324/in/photostream/

That said, this thinking stems from a history that isn't present in the newer parts of the country for the most part.

[SkahHigh]

Blue hour by Fred_514, on Flickr

[VivaPhysicality]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I can get where SHH is coming from. Us Easterners think of urban street level as a long streetwall of storefronts flush directly to the sidewalk. Big landscaped areas right on the street separating the street from the buildings just seems suburban-ish to us.

I mean, this picture looks very suburban to me.

That said, this thinking stems from a history that isn't present in the newer parts of the country for the most part.

That's just the nature of West Georgia street. To the west of the financial district, Georgia becomes the closest thing Downtown Vancouver has to a highway. It's the most car-oriented part of downtown, so pedestrian-oriented retail doesn't make a lot of sense there.

Thankfully Robson is just two blocks south of Georgia, and it's a pedestrian-oriented, old-streetcar-style retail street.


Source: http://pacific-sands.com/community/robson-street/

[Klazu]

Keep in mind that the size of West Georgia Street is left so wide and open because it will in the future need to accommodate the Downtown streetcar line to Stanley Park. Also, nobody like living next to that huge parking lot (street) and there is nothing changing that unless another bridge or tunnel will be built over First Narrows to North Shore.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by VivaPhysicality

That's just the nature of West Georgia street. To the west of the financial district, Georgia becomes the closest thing Downtown Vancouver has to a highway. It's the most car-oriented part of downtown, so pedestrian-oriented retail doesn't make a lot of sense there.

Thankfully Robson is just two blocks south of Georgia, and it's a pedestrian-oriented, old-streetcar-style retail street.


Source: http://pacific-sands.com/community/robson-street/

That's more like it Gorgeous. Perfect use of street trees too

[logan5]

They could of at least put townhouses at the base of these towers along Georgia. A big part of the reason coal harbour is dead is because there are a lot of tower in the park developments. Easily the worst part of downtown's far as character and street life are concerned.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by logan5

They could of at least put townhouses at the base of these towers along Georgia. A big part of the reason coal harbour is dead is because there are a lot of tower in the park developments. Easily the worst part of downtown's far as character and street life are concerned.

That's a relief. People were starting to go on like that street was the norm for the city. I admit to not knowing much about street level in Vancouver because you never really see pictures of it (all the photos are all about showing off the skyline).

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by logan5

They could of at least put townhouses at the base of these towers along Georgia. A big part of the reason coal harbour is dead is because there are a lot of tower in the park developments. Easily the worst part of downtown's far as character and street life are concerned.

I've seen plenty of Toronto buildings with townhouses at the base that are just as dead as any tower in the park.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I can get where SHH is coming from. Us Easterners think of urban street level as a long streetwall of storefronts flush directly to the sidewalk.

FWIW, he's coming from, literally, this:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

March 8, 2015 by Rabbittownie, on Flickr

If you look at what's in the bottom left corner of the Georgia Ave pic that was initially quoted, the one looking west towards Stanley Park, you'll see, west to east, Chevron gas station, then White Spot restaurant, then a surface parking lot. All of that is in the purest suburban style. Then there's the width of the street, the number of lanes, and the trees and all those grassy areas.

[Metro-One]

Okay, this entire conversation is making me laugh now.

That is how many streets in St. John's? I am sure I can find some pretty suburban streets pretty close to the one pictured above and I am pretty sure that downtown Vancouver has many more solid streetwall corridors than St. John's (which much of downtown Vancouver is). So you know, thats where I'm coming from.

As mentioned several times this is Vancouver's widest downtown road corridor, and the fact that their is no Garner, or other urban freeway, means that this road pretty much plays the part. It is also Vancouver's ceremonial street. What is also funy is this area is actually hoping with street life since it leads to Stanley Park, and when cities start reaching the multi-millions, you do start getting variety in neighbourhoods and urban form. Even in Tokyo not every urban corridor / street is a flush streetwall with at base retail.

To me this makes cities such as Vancouver more interesting, it is nice having some tower in the park areas with sublime landscaping, greenery, water features, gardening, etc...

Ironically my friends and I would frequent this area often in the summer because the landscaping made it one of the most enjoyable places to hang (and there are a few little pocket park perfect for throwing the frisbee around) and then, when hungry, 2 blocks over is Robson

So again, just hilarious people are saying this looks suburban, ugh, pretentious nonsense.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Okay, this entire conversation is making me laugh now.

That is how many streets in St. John's? I am sure I can find some pretty suburban streets pretty close to the one pictured above and I am pretty sure that downtown Vancouver has many more solid streetwall corridors than St. John's (which much of downtown Vancouver is). So you know, thats where I'm coming from.

You can't understand that that pic (in which things like a gas station and a surface parking lot are visible alongside the main artery) along with the knowledge that the area is actually squarely downtown in a city of 2.5M might trigger reactions like "feels a bit suburban-ish" ?

No one is saying that trees, grass, and open spaces aren't nice or enjoyable.

Just note that there isn't a single blade of grass to be seen in the St. John's pic, let alone a tree. And that's only a tiny city of 200k.

If you're used to that as downtown, it's normal that that pic (NW end of Georgia looking west) will display some unarguably suburban characteristics to you. It's not a crime to point it out. Might even be a compliment. In many ways and to many people I'm sure it's more inviting than that grey, dense, compact, canyon-like street in St. John's.

It would be nice to be able to make innocent remarks on this forum without people feeling attacked.

[Metro-One]

But again, how many streets in St. John's look like that?

Victoria is only 350 000 ish and it also has streets similar to St. John's pictured above, as do most cities throughout Canada over 100 000 (heck, even Nanaimo at 90 000 has a couple old short sections of streetwalls).

St. John's has fantastic urban form, don't get me wrong (that is not the argument) but I find expecting every corridor in a much larger and diverse urban area's downtown to be street walls everywhere with no gas stations is very naive. You say this is squarely downtown as well, which is only half true, because again when cities become so large, their downtown's get pretty darn large as well (hence a variety of urban forms start to develop), this is on the fringe of downtown to many in Vancouver.

You can take a picture of every cities' most dense urban corridor and say "this is where he / she is coming from..."

Thats the part i found really funny, because that only represents a small fraction of the streets / corridors in St. John's, including the downtown surroundings.

[LeftCoaster]

The criticisms of Georgia on a purely aesthetic basis are not totally unfounded, but it is important to understand this stretch contextually in order to fully understand why it is the way it is.

Aside from the above mentioned sites all being major development fodder (which the most definitely are), the street has never and likely never will be pedestrianized for this stretch. It happens to be the busiest section of the busiest street in the city and has 3 viable E/W alternatives for ped traffic that the city actively encourages (Robson to the South and Bayshore Dr. & The Seawall to the north). They are all quite nice walks, here's a few streetview vistas:

• Bayshore
• Seawall
• Robson

So I would expect, that even when the sites are developed, the street is still largely ignored from a pedestrian realm standpoint, as it's just not the most pleasant street to walk down at the best of times, and the city would much rather mass pedestrians on the seawall and robson retail strip than a loud 7 lane road. Personally I think it is absolutely the right call.

[VivaPhysicality]

I think we can all agree that every Canadian city has some suburban looking elements in its core.

And I think we can (hopefully) all agree that Vancouver also has plenty of urban street walls just like the Eastern cities do. This one for example looks pretty similar to the one in St. John's:


Source: https://sunnvancouver.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/water-street-vancouver.gif

It does have trees though. It is BC after all.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

That's a relief. People were starting to go on like that street was the norm for the city. I admit to not knowing much about street level in Vancouver because you never really see pictures of it (all the photos are all about showing off the skyline).

Really? I always thought Vancouver was known much more for it's streetscape than it's towers. In the architecture/development world, Vancouverism is very much about the ground plane and how pedestrians interact with the built form than the skyline. When city planners and architects talk about Vancouver they are most certainly talking about the streetscape and not the endless sea of 'unoffensive' glass condos.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

That's a relief. People were starting to go on like that street was the norm for the city. I admit to not knowing much about street level in Vancouver because you never really see pictures of it (all the photos are all about showing off the skyline).

It's amazing what you can find out with google streetview...