Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by Sheba

You're reading my mind. When I traced out a route it made more sense to join it at Olympic Village and keep it above ground until that point. After that I had it follow the railway tracks along W 6th Ave (don't know who owns it) and have a stop at Granville Bridge - then a cut and cover tunnel could be done without being hugely disruptive. After Granville it would drop down to Broadway and be a bored tunnel, which would be phase 2 (and travel further than Arbutus).

I have to disagree with you two about millenium to Olympic village. While it would be great to keep it raised for a longer stretch, we really really do need a station at Broadway and main, and extending to false creek would make that impossible. In addition, we need it to connect with vgh and city hall, and staying elevated to Granville island would prevent that. Turning south even at cambie/olympic village would be exceptionally difficult and costly.

Actually, though, I agree with folks who want it elevated the whole way along Broadway. It would be such a great view, and I don't think it would detract from the street's character but rather improve it. Broadway needs less traffic lanes anyway, although it would only take up one lane except at stations.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by Kisai

I suppose the straighter and less grade there is (eg a purely east/west route) requires less of the technical requirements of the Skytrain's LIM technology and steerable axles, but that's nitpicking since the Skytrain has never caught fire (to my knowledge,) while the Canada Line has ( http://globalnews.ca/news/1738146/electrical-fire-on-canada-line-train-causes-delays/ ) while it was still new. Hopefully that was just a one-off problem (like the two summer outages on the Expo/Millenium Line) that was likely a problem of deferred maintenance or bad communications about maintenance.

Steerable bogies or lack there of had nothing to do with the fire on Canada Line.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

Does this mean that the poco, Pitt, maple ridge direction will one day be a branch of millenium line, and lafarge direction will be another branch? If so, will there be more expansion north from lafarge-douglas? It would be pretty weird to have a 1-station branch.

I suspect the extension to Pitt, PoCo, Maple Ridge &tc will become the millenium line mainline tracks, and segment up Pinetree will become the 'Lafarge Lake branch'

I doubt we'll have to worry about this before 2040.
Expo line extension to Langley will happen before a Maple Ridge extension of Millennium line

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

When MLine gets extended Westward, there have to be a certain part of the budget allocated to Canada Line station at Broadway City Hall

Definitely will need the platform extension as the platforms are super crowded even now during rush hour.

A future Millennium line station at Broadway City Hall will be entirely separate from the existing Canada Line station, since the new station platforms will have to be lower than the existing station to allow the E-W Millennium tracks to get under the N-S Canada Line tracks.

However, there will be a connecting corridor between the two stations to handle station transfers, and there may be a common ticketing mezzanine that enlarges the current one used by the Canada Line station

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Or any destination south or west of Yaletown... don't you think a significant amount of Expo ridership transfers to go south or west? It is not all about getting people to Waterfront. An extension to Broadway-City Hall would remove most riders who are not destined for the business district from riding Expo Line into downtown, AND some percentage of those who are going to the business district (perhaps small). I think it would be a massive relief for the busiest section of Expo Line.

Also, I think you are overestimating the difference between the two routes. It is a shorter trip on Canada Line from City Hall to Waterfront than it is on Expo Line from Commercial to Waterfront, and the time spent walking between lines is longer at Commercial than we would expect at Broadway-City Hall (at Commercial it's what, 120 meters horizontal plus more up/down distance?).

According to this document, the travel time from Commercial to Cambie will be 6 minutes. (This seems large to me... but who am I to question it?)

Aren't people using the Millennium line & travelling to the Broadway business district already exiting at Commercial/Broadway and using the BLine?

Seems to be a longer trip to switch trains at Commercial/Broadway to get downtown & then get a bus to Broadway from downtown.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

But that's what I was saying. If both lines are working, which they usually are, there's no reason anybody from Brentwood or Lougheed would transfer at Broadway-City Hall, unless they were going to Yaletown. It would just add extra travel time. So while I think the Millennium Line-Canada Line connection is important, I think it's more so to connect south Vancouver and Richmond to Burnaby, not as a relief transfer point to Commercial-Broadway

I've heard it called the "the Comfy Seat Dilemma".
Who wants to leave their seat at Commercial-Broadway to be crushed onto an Expo train to get downtown, when they can sit & rest for another few minutes & switch trains at Broadway-City Hall before being crushed on a Canada line train heading downtown.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

I believe the Evergreen Line will lack ridership UNTIL it is connected to the Canada Line. Yaletown, SE False Creek, Cambie Corridor, Oakridge, Langara, and especially YVR are significant destinations that could be reached from Coquitlam, Port Moody, and Burnaby with a single transfer.

Is there any possibility that Evergreen could be extended from VCC-Clarke to Olympic Village at a reasonable cost as a "standard" elevated SkyTrain before it eventually gets tunnelled under the Broadway Corridor? I ask this not only as a potential customer, but also because it could solve the inevitable bickering between Surrey and Vancouver as to who will get their big-ticket transit project first. Evergreen extension before or concurrent with Surrey LRT, tfollowed by the Broadway tunnel megabucks project.

The recent RFP indicates they are committed to starting the Millennium line tunnel at the Great Northern Way campus, heading south to Broadway and then west to UBC.

Your going to have to learn to love the Canada Line Olympic Village station or the Expo line Main Street station.
and the buses that take you there.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

A future Millennium line station at Broadway City Hall will be entirely separate from the existing Canada Line station, since the new station platforms will have to be lower than the existing station to allow the E-W Millennium tracks to get under the N-S Canada Line tracks.

However, there will be a connecting corridor between the two stations to handle station transfers, and there may be a common ticketing mezzanine that enlarges the current one used by the Canada Line station

I'm given to understand that there's a pre-built knockout panel in the Canada Line station on the east wall of the mezzanine, which is intended to lead down to the Millennium Line platforms, so we already know what the common ticketing mezzanine will be like.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Sheba

You're reading my mind. When I traced out a route it made more sense to join it at Olympic Village and keep it above ground until that point. After that I had it follow the railway tracks along W 6th Ave (don't know who owns it) and have a stop at Granville Bridge - then a cut and cover tunnel could be done without being hugely disruptive. After Granville it would drop down to Broadway and be a bored tunnel, which would be phase 2 (and travel further than Arbutus).

The main reason is the hill from West 6th Ave up to Broadway (think up walking up the Oak Street hill) - the station shouldn't be at the bottom of the hill. VCC-Clark has the same problem in accessing Clark Drive. There's supposed to eventually be a development on the NW corner of Clark & GNW (with escalators/elevators up to Clark Drive), but nothing so far.

So a line along West 6th would severely discourage ridership from Broadway office workers and hospital workers (so as Large Cat mentioned - you're not at the right locations - plus you have a massive hill to climb).

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Zassk

I'm given to understand that there's a pre-built knockout panel in the Canada Line station on the east wall of the mezzanine, which is intended to lead down to the Millennium Line platforms, so we already know what the common ticketing mezzanine will be like.

Potentially both sides - knock-out on west wall of the mezzanine, and potentially on the east wall into the new City Hall redevelopment.

[red-paladin]

Let's keep all the Millennium Line extension talk to that thread please.

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

Let's keep all the Millennium Line extension talk to that thread please.

Haha oops! Too much interlining

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

Steerable bogies or lack there of had nothing to do with the fire on Canada Line.

This was a poke about how reliable the Skytrain technology has been versus the Canada Line (which is newer.)

If I wanted to demonstrate how inferior LRT is, I could find you a news article about someone being killed by light rail every 2-3 days in North America alone.

Or how MTA North (Commuter rail) has had 3 car/train collisions since the beginning of this year, one of them resulting in a train engulfed in fire, killing 6 people and injuring over a dozen others.

Grade separation is the only sure way to avoid tragic accidents, and every time someone wants to cut costs in transportation, it inevitably is shortsighted and comes at the expense of safety.

Regarding the Evergreen line guideway, I'd expect that it gets extended as far as it makes sense to. That might not be in 10 years, that might be 30 or 50 years later. It would make no sense to suddenly switch to a LRT or some other rail technology. That's why it keeps being echo'd on this forum.

[Mac Write]

When do the Mark III's start arriving?

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

I've heard it called the "the Comfy Seat Dilemma".
Who wants to leave their seat at Commercial-Broadway to be crushed onto an Expo train to get downtown, when they can sit & rest for another few minutes & switch trains at Broadway-City Hall before being crushed on a Canada line train heading downtown.

Exactly.

Not only that, but the transfer at City Hall could be easier. The Millennium extension will probably have to go under the Canada Line, but not by much. But even so they will be connected by underground walkway. So to get from Millennium line to Canada Line, you would have to go up a flight of stairs, then down a short flight of stairs (and not have to go up to the street outside). At Commercial, you have to go up a flight of stairs, then up another flight of stairs (with a fairly long walk between). If the transfer is easier at City Hall (no wind or cold temps, less climbing, shorter distance) people will do it.

And not just to Yaletown, but also to Vancouver City Center and Waterfront. Canada Line Waterfront is actually better located closer to many offices (using the Hastings exit) than the Expo Line platforms are depending on where you are going. You would transfer to Expo line if you were going to Stadium or Burrard, but if you are going to Yaletown, City Center, or Waterfront, transferring at City Hall has advantages.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

When do the Mark III's start arriving?

from the Translink website:

Bombardier is currently designing a new generation of a SkyTrain vehicle for introduction on the Evergreen Line. Twenty-eight MK III's are currently on order and scheduled to be introduced in 2016.

http://www.translink.ca/en/About-Us/Corp...panies/BCRTC/Fleet-and-Technologies.aspx


I expect they will start arriving early in 2016 and be tested on the Evergreen extension before it opens.

Once Evergreen opens and Expo and Millennium lines are separate operations, I wouldn't be surprised to see the MkIII trains on the King George - Waterfront runs to free up MkI and MkII cars for VCC - Lafarge Lake service.

[MIPS]

I've heard rumors from the transit nuts out east that a MK III prototype was spotted at the Millhaven track a few months ago but he had no photos to back his claim up. I don't doubt they were testing something before they shipped them out here for fine tuning.

[st7860]

Those are the Innovia series right?

[MIPS]

That's their new name now, yes. They've now completely retired the ALRT/ART name to streamline all their transit technologies.

But you can still call it ICTS if you prefer.

[Olden Retreiver]

Saw this morning that the big billboard at Burquitlam Station has been updated to read "Opening Fall 2016." That should put one debate to rest.