Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[Metro-One]

Skytrain to Maple Ridge could be a real option in 25 years or so if growth continues in the North East sector and Pitt Meadows / Maple Ridge begin to focus their growth in their downtown cores.

The ALR stretch is long but I feel much of it could be built at a much lower cost at grade similar to the at grade sections at YVR.

Until then a 2 station spur to PoCo could be built and would be a decent small expansion in 15 years or so.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Skytrain to Maple Ridge could be a real option in 25 years or so if growth continues in the North East sector and Pitt Meadows / Maple Ridge begin to focus their growth in their downtown cores.

The ALR stretch is long but I feel much of it could be built at a much lower cost at grade similar to the at grade sections at YVR.

Until then a 2 station spur to PoCo could be built and would be a decent small expansion in 15 years or so.

The politicians are always so short-sighted. Sure there might not be the density there now to support an extension, but Maple Ridge might end up with higher density on area that already has buildings on it around it's core.

This is just like the issue SoF... Surrey wants light rail, and would likely want it to expand it all over the place, but the denstity is not there. They would get that denstity from further Skytrain extensions. Extending the Skytrain all the way out to Abbotsford? Probably inevitable but the current political meddling, but not in the near-future at all.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Yeah, our short-sightedness in terms of rail corridor development is really gonna cost us fairly soon. Richmond had a great street car right of way that was recently made into a bike trail. More generally, I'm just trying to figure out a way to get an express service to parallel the Expo Line.

I don't think Expo needs a parallel line at all. There is still capacity improvements to be had, and extending the M-Line to Cambie will provide an alternate way in and out of the core.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Kisai

The politicians are always so short-sighted. Sure there might not be the density there now to support an extension, but Maple Ridge might end up with higher density on area that already has buildings on it around it's core.

This is just like the issue SoF... Surrey wants light rail, and would likely want it to expand it all over the place, but the denstity is not there. They would get that denstity from further Skytrain extensions. Extending the Skytrain all the way out to Abbotsford? Probably inevitable but the current political meddling, but not in the near-future at all.

I'd be really, really surprised if the Expo Line was ever extended past Langley City Centre. I mean in a thousand years, it will still be its terminus. There's just way too much farmland in between Langley and Abbotsford to make SkyTrain worth it. Maple Ridge however will get SkyTrain I think eventually.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't think Expo needs a parallel line at all. There is still capacity improvements to be had, and extending the M-Line to Cambie will provide an alternate way in and out of the core.

Right now it probably doesn't, but I don't think we're too far off.

And I think the benefits of the Millennium line to Broadway-City Hall are exaggerated. Realistically, who living along the Millennium Line will waste all that time to go an extra 3 stations to get to Waterfront? I mean yeah, people will use it if they need to go to Yaletown, but other than that I really don't see it stealing very many passengers at all from the Expo Line.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

And I think the benefits of the Millennium line to Broadway-City Hall are exaggerated. Realistically, who living along the Millennium Line will waste all that time to go an extra 3 stations to get to Waterfront? I mean yeah, people will use it if they need to go to Yaletown, but other than that I really don't see it stealing very many passengers at all from the Expo Line.

It would be nice when the Expo line has issues preventing it running into downtown, which seems to happen every couple of months.

And it would give an alternate transfer point. If you're living in Brentwood and need to get downtown, you have to transfer at Commercial-Broadway. Extending the Millennium line means you could optionally transfer at Broadway-City Hall. Both of those stations are going to get busier, but I think Commercial-Broadway might remain more of a pain-in-the-ass to transfer SkyTrain lines at.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by SOSS

SoF is better served by BC Transits Route 66 FVX set to begin operating April 6, 2015. The rail corridor does exist however is not very direct. I can see this service being popular enough to lead to expanding Hwy 1's shoulders to be Bus-Only lanes similar to Hwy 99.

I hope to see HOV/Bus lanes right out to Abbotsford or even Chilliwack in the next few years. Province is releasing it's 10-Year Plan in the next month or so, and I hope there's stuff in place to help make the FVX successful & quite popular. Think it's going to suffer because it will get stuck in traffic whenever something on Highway 1 happens in the valley, which seems to take place a few times a week now.

I think it will be a success starting immediately, and hope BC Transit has the resources to bump frequency up should they have a high ridership.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It would be nice when the Expo line has issues preventing it running into downtown, which seems to happen every couple of months.

And it would give an alternate transfer point. If you're living in Brentwood and need to get downtown, you have to transfer at Commercial-Broadway. Extending the Millennium line means you could optionally transfer at Broadway-City Hall. Both of those stations are going to get busier, but I think Commercial-Broadway might remain more of a pain-in-the-ass to transfer SkyTrain lines at.

But that's what I was saying. If both lines are working, which they usually are, there's no reason anybody from Brentwood or Lougheed would transfer at Broadway-City Hall, unless they were going to Yaletown. It would just add extra travel time. So while I think the Millennium Line-Canada Line connection is important, I think it's more so to connect south Vancouver and Richmond to Burnaby, not as a relief transfer point to Commercial-Broadway

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I'd be really, really surprised if the Expo Line was ever extended past Langley City Centre. I mean in a thousand years, it will still be its terminus. There's just way too much farmland in between Langley and Abbotsford to make SkyTrain worth it. Maple Ridge however will get SkyTrain I think eventually.

> I think any up-theValley rail transit would probably use a different, perhaps larger, or faster (or the inverse) rolling stock.

Right now it probably doesn't, but I don't think we're too far off.

And I think the benefits of the Millennium line to Broadway-City Hall are exaggerated. Realistically, who living along the Millennium Line will waste all that time to go an extra 3 stations to get to Waterfront? I mean yeah, people will use it if they need to go to Yaletown, but other than that I really don't see it stealing very many passengers at all from the Expo Line.

> sorry, I gotta disagree here. I think the connection at Cambie will change things big time. ex: People changing here for YVR instead of Waterfront, people coming and going in an east-west direction....
I think that City-Hall Broadway system will sort of fuse the system together, and any future major station such as Granville, etc are going to be catalysts for growth or improvement.

[Olden Retreiver]

I believe the Evergreen Line will lack ridership UNTIL it is connected to the Canada Line. Yaletown, SE False Creek, Cambie Corridor, Oakridge, Langara, and especially YVR are significant destinations that could be reached from Coquitlam, Port Moody, and Burnaby with a single transfer.

Is there any possibility that Evergreen could be extended from VCC-Clarke to Olympic Village at a reasonable cost as a "standard" elevated SkyTrain before it eventually gets tunnelled under the Broadway Corridor? I ask this not only as a potential customer, but also because it could solve the inevitable bickering between Surrey and Vancouver as to who will get their big-ticket transit project first. Evergreen extension before or concurrent with Surrey LRT, tfollowed by the Broadway tunnel megabucks project.

[TransitJack]

When MLine gets extended Westward, there have to be a certain part of the budget allocated to Canada Line station at Broadway City Hall

Definitely will need the platform extension as the platforms are super crowded even now during rush hour.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

But that's what I was saying. If both lines are working, which they usually are, there's no reason anybody from Brentwood or Lougheed would transfer at Broadway-City Hall, unless they were going to Yaletown.

Or any destination south or west of Yaletown... don't you think a significant amount of Expo ridership transfers to go south or west? It is not all about getting people to Waterfront. An extension to Broadway-City Hall would remove most riders who are not destined for the business district from riding Expo Line into downtown, AND some percentage of those who are going to the business district (perhaps small). I think it would be a massive relief for the busiest section of Expo Line.

Also, I think you are overestimating the difference between the two routes. It is a shorter trip on Canada Line from City Hall to Waterfront than it is on Expo Line from Commercial to Waterfront, and the time spent walking between lines is longer at Commercial than we would expect at Broadway-City Hall (at Commercial it's what, 120 meters horizontal plus more up/down distance?).

According to this document, the travel time from Commercial to Cambie will be 6 minutes. (This seems large to me... but who am I to question it?)

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

But that's what I was saying. If both lines are working, which they usually are, there's no reason anybody from Brentwood or Lougheed would transfer at Broadway-City Hall, unless they were going to Yaletown. It would just add extra travel time. So while I think the Millennium Line-Canada Line connection is important, I think it's more so to connect south Vancouver and Richmond to Burnaby, not as a relief transfer point to Commercial-Broadway

I disagree. All things equal, you'd take Expo line to Burrard. Canada Line is better for Yaletown, and City Centre (it's so much closer to ground level).

Anyway, it's an alternative route into the city center, which is the key.

I'd much rather see transit along Hastings in the long term than anything that parallels the Expo line.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

Is there any possibility that Evergreen could be extended from VCC-Clarke to Olympic Village at a reasonable cost as a "standard" elevated SkyTrain before it eventually gets tunnelled under the Broadway Corridor? I ask this not only as a potential customer, but also because it could solve the inevitable bickering between Surrey and Vancouver as to who will get their big-ticket transit project first. Evergreen extension before or concurrent with Surrey LRT, tfollowed by the Broadway tunnel megabucks project.

You're reading my mind. When I traced out a route it made more sense to join it at Olympic Village and keep it above ground until that point. After that I had it follow the railway tracks along W 6th Ave (don't know who owns it) and have a stop at Granville Bridge - then a cut and cover tunnel could be done without being hugely disruptive. After Granville it would drop down to Broadway and be a bored tunnel, which would be phase 2 (and travel further than Arbutus).

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Sheba

You're reading my mind. When I traced out a route it made more sense to join it at Olympic Village and keep it above ground until that point. After that I had it follow the railway tracks along W 6th Ave (don't know who owns it) and have a stop at Granville Bridge - then a cut and cover tunnel could be done without being hugely disruptive. After Granville it would drop down to Broadway and be a bored tunnel, which would be phase 2 (and travel further than Arbutus).

You should look at the combo RRT/LRT option in Translink's study.

Skytrain from VCC-Arbutus

LRT from Main St, through OV (transfer to C-Line), to Granville Island, then meeting Skytrain at Arbutus and continuing to UBC.

I know people hate LRT here, but the extra link helps make up for the lack of Skytrain all the way to UBC.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

You should look at the combo RRT/LRT option in Translink's study.

Skytrain from VCC-Arbutus

LRT from Main St, through OV (transfer to C-Line), to Granville Island, then meeting Skytrain at Arbutus and continuing to UBC.

I know people hate LRT here, but the extra link helps make up for the lack of Skytrain all the way to UBC.

Not sure why this is being discussed in the Evergreen Line thread, and the "hate LRT" is more to do with lack of open mindedness of the people here.

That said, since the people here always say LRT is not an improvement over a bus, why should UBC get LRT to begin with if they don't get Skytrain? Why must these students get a rail based transit system? Rubber tired vehicles not good enough for them?

Perhaps BCIT, SFU Burnaby (via rack or furnicular) and Kwatlen students in the Fraser Valley, as well as Trinity University, branches of Sprott Shaw far from Skytrain and other post secondary schools should have a rail based system too.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Or any destination so
uth or west of Yaletown... don't you think a significant amount of Expo ridership transfers to go south or west? It is not all about getting people to Waterfront. An extension to Broadway-City Hall would remove most riders who are not destined for the business district from riding Expo Line into downtown, AND some percentage of those who are going to the business district (perhaps small). I think it would be a massive relief for the busiest section of Expo Line.

Also, I think you are overestimating the difference between the two routes. It is a shorter trip on Canada Line from City Hall to Waterfront than it is on Expo Line from Commercial to Waterfront, and the time spent walking between lines is longer at Commercial than we would expect at Broadway-City Hall (at Commercial it's what, 120 meters horizontal plus more up/down distance?).

According to this document, the travel time from Commercial to Cambie will be 6 minutes. (This seems large to me... but who am I to question it?)

I know not everyone's going to Waterfront, that's why I wrote that I don't think it'll make much of a difference for people heading downtown. I did say in the part of the post you cropped out that it will make a big difference for people transferring going south or west. But downtown? Like you said, it'll be 6 minutes from Commercial-Broadway to Broadway-City Hall. So say if a commuter is headed to Granville and Georgia, taking the Expo Line would take 6 minutes, while taking the Canada Line would take 11 minutes (assuming instant transfer at either station). I'd be surprised if people took the Canada Line just to have a shorter elevator, costing them an extra five minutes.

But yes, I guess we'll see once it actually gets built. I hope I'm wrong!

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Not sure why this is being discussed in the Evergreen Line thread, and the "hate LRT" is more to do with lack of open mindedness of the people here.

That said, since the people here always say LRT is not an improvement over a bus, why should UBC get LRT to begin with if they don't get Skytrain? Why must these students get a rail based transit system? Rubber tired vehicles not good enough for them?

Perhaps BCIT, SFU Burnaby (via rack or furnicular) and Kwatlen students in the Fraser Valley, as well as Trinity University, branches of Sprott Shaw far from Skytrain and other post secondary schools should have a rail based system too.

No, we hate LRT because we want the best for our transit system and refuse to settle.

And yes, if we don't get SkyTrain to UBC, I wouldn't want LRT, for the reasons you mentioned.

Also, I hope you know how ridiculous those comparisons were. If you have some weird hatred for students, whatever, but you still haven't come up with a real argument against SkyTrain to there.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

No, we hate LRT because we want the best for our transit system and refuse to settle.

And yes, if we don't get SkyTrain to UBC, I wouldn't want LRT, for the reasons you mentioned.

Also, I hope you know how ridiculous those comparisons were. If you have some weird hatred for students, whatever, but you still haven't come up with a real argument against SkyTrain to there.

I wouldn't mind Skytrain going to UBC as long as it is SKY-train...A TRAIN HIGH UP IN THE SKY!!!

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

I wouldn't mind Skytrain going to UBC as long as it is SKY-train...A TRAIN HIGH UP IN THE SKY!!!

I think elevated SkyTrain would be difficult on Broadway just because it takes up more space than one would think. It would be at least 1 lane for the actual guideways, and realistically they'd probably take away 2 and expand the sidewalks. Maybe if we did it New York style it could work, but that has other problems.

So I think boring from VCC-Clark to Blanca Street is pretty much unavoidable, but west of Blanca I think elevated would be perfect. There's a median all the way along University Boulevard, and there's only a handful of houses along it towards the end who hopefully wouldn't have too much influence.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

No, we hate LRT because we want the best for our transit system and refuse to settle.

And yes, if we don't get SkyTrain to UBC, I wouldn't want LRT, for the reasons you mentioned.

Also, I hope you know how ridiculous those comparisons were. If you have some weird hatred for students, whatever, but you still haven't come up with a real argument against SkyTrain to there.

I suppose the straighter and less grade there is (eg a purely east/west route) requires less of the technical requirements of the Skytrain's LIM technology and steerable axles, but that's nitpicking since the Skytrain has never caught fire (to my knowledge,) while the Canada Line has ( http://globalnews.ca/news/1738146/electrical-fire-on-canada-line-train-causes-delays/ ) while it was still new. Hopefully that was just a one-off problem (like the two summer outages on the Expo/Millenium Line) that was likely a problem of deferred maintenance or bad communications about maintenance.