Calgary International Airport II

[Bigtime]

Thanks for digging up the schedules Acey, wasn't quite there yet.

What I do like is the early morning departure to OGG, gives you half a day to settle in. I do still prefer the overnight flight home though, giving you one more full day on the island before leaving.

Very good chance I'll check this option out for the next winter season.

For sure, I did it really fast so I'll check for mistakes when I get home and to see if this sked involves any 763 YYC-YEG legs or if all the turns are Hawaii side. Might be a decent ride vs Rouge with a few less seats too.

If there was any doubt they'd be wingletted, looks like WS intends to call it "76W" internally.

[LO 044]

Acey looking at the schedules you posted for Alberta-Hawaii flights, it seems this could be done with 3 aircraft. Is it doable? If so, where is the 4th aircraft going.

Originally Posted by LO 044

Acey looking at the schedules you posted for Alberta-Hawaii flights, it seems this could be done with 3 aircraft. Is it doable? If so, where is the 4th aircraft going.

Not sure. I'm sure Cage or Johnny will tell us how many frames that sked requires and where a possible fourth frame might be.

Found something else unrelated but interesting on the AC side of things: to facilitate the change of AC844 YYC-FRA service from 77L to 333 equipment at the end of this month, AC850 YYC-LHR will have one-off 77L on March 29. AC usually does these swaps on the Europe side.

March 29
AC845 FRA-YYC 77L
AC844 YYC-FRA 333

AC851 LHR-YYC 333
AC850 YYC-LHR 77L

[s211]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

WestJet just announced that you can book the 767 Hawaii flights as of today:

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=975

Seat pitch on board from their twitter:

Seat pitch in the 767 is 31" ,except Plus (rows 1-4) 38",and emergency exit rows (6DEF and row 17-18, 39")

Not being a seat pitch expert, how do those numbers compare to other aircraft. Is it "knees up to ears"?

Originally Posted by s211

Not being a seat pitch expert, how do those numbers compare to other aircraft. Is it "knees up to ears"?

Depends how tall you are I guess. Pitch is the same as econ class in the following aircraft:

Air Canada 319 (non-Rouge)
Air Canada 77W (2 class)
Air Canada A330
Air Canada 788
Air Canada CRJ100/200
United 738/739
WestJet Q400
AA Mad Dog

But the important comparison is the direct competition: WS 763 will be less pitch than Transat (32-33") but beats Rouge at 30".

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by LO 044

Acey looking at the schedules you posted for Alberta-Hawaii flights, it seems this could be done with 3 aircraft. Is it doable? If so, where is the 4th aircraft going.

This would depend on turn times, there is ~45min between arrival of the YYC-HNL flight and departure of the HNL-YYC flight on Sunday.

Also could be used in the YEG/YYC-OGG runs as the turns are relatively short.

My guess would be 2 A/C for each YYC & YEG, but I run into an issue getting the A/C for the Thursday HNL departure to HNL. I'm sure someone better at this than I will sort it out.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Acey

Schedule

WS 1860 YYC 0730 - 1151 HNL 763 1
WS 1860 YYC 0825 - 1246 HNL 763 5
WS 1861 HNL 1330 - 2307 YYC 763 1
WS 1861 HNL 1425 - 2359 YYC 763 5

Just a quick change to the HNL outbound scheds. There was an outbound on Friday as well and slightly different times.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Just a quick change to the HNL outbound scheds. There was an outbound on Friday as well and slightly different times.

That makes sense, thanks.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Just a quick change to the HNL outbound scheds. There was an outbound on Friday as well and slightly different times.

So here my amautuer attempt at scheduling

A/C #1
YYC-HNL 1
HNL-YYC 5
YYC-OGG 6
OGG-YYC 7

A/C #2
Week 1
YYC-OGG 1
OGG-YYC 2
YYC-OGG 4
OGG-YEG 5
YEG-OGG 6

Week 2
OGG-YEG 1
YEG-OGG 2
OGG-YYC 4
YYC-OGG 5
OGG-YYC 6

A/C #3
Week 1
OGG-YEG 1
YEG-OGG 2
OGG-YYC 4
YYC-OGG 5
OGG-YYC 6

Week 2
YYC-OGG 1
OGG-YYC 2
YYC-OGG 4
OGG-YEG 5
YEG-OGG 6

A/C #4
HNL-YYC 1
YYC-HNL 5
OGG-YEG 6
YEG-OGG 7

A/C #4 will need to shuttle between HNL and OGG on Saturday and Thursday nights, but that's the only shuttling that is needed.

[Cage]

A quick schedule write up on the proverbial bar napkin has this schedule taking up 2 airplanes on days 1,5,6 with 1 airplane requirement on days 2, 4, 7. No airplanes will fly day 3.

The Hawaii schedule could be paired with YYC-YYZ-YYC or YEG-YYZ-YEG redeye flights and daytime flights on 1 airplane requirement days.

Also if memory serves WS might have 3 widebodies for at least part of the winter schedule. In this case there are possibilities for YVR-Hawaii to operate 763 equipment as well.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

So here my amautuer attempt at scheduling

A/C #1
YYC-HNL 1
HNL-YYC 5
YYC-OGG 6
OGG-YYC 7

A/C #2
Week 1
YYC-OGG 1
OGG-YYC 2
YYC-OGG 4
OGG-YEG 5
YEG-OGG 6

Week 2
OGG-YEG 1
YEG-OGG 2
OGG-YYC 4
YYC-OGG 5
OGG-YYC 6

A/C #3
Week 1
OGG-YEG 1
YEG-OGG 2
OGG-YYC 4
YYC-OGG 5
OGG-YYC 6

Week 2
YYC-OGG 1
OGG-YYC 2
YYC-OGG 4
OGG-YEG 5
YEG-OGG 6

A/C #4
HNL-YYC 1
YYC-HNL 5
OGG-YEG 6
YEG-OGG 7

A/C #4 will need to shuttle between HNL and OGG on Saturday and Thursday nights, but that's the only shuttling that is needed.

Way too much schedule slack for the profitable operation. a four airplane schedule like this would mean your airplanes are spending 24 hours in hawaii.

What I suspect is that WS has not updated their turn time requirements in their scheduling system. Other option is they acquired turn time requirements from an American airline.

The problem is the WS turns of 45 min to 1 hour are possible with 763, but not advisable. It is probable that either there is another shoe to drop (Such as YVR-Hawaii also joining the program) or there will be a schedule change comming soon to airlineroute tweet.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Acey

Depends how tall you are I guess. Pitch is the same as econ class in the following aircraft:

Air Canada 319 (non-Rouge)
Air Canada 77W (2 class)
Air Canada A330
Air Canada 788
Air Canada CRJ100/200
United 738/739
WestJet Q400
AA Mad Dog

But the important comparison is the direct competition: WS 763 will be less pitch than Transat (32-33") but beats Rouge at 30".

But pitch comparisons also need to be normalized for seat thickness. I'm not sure if Rouge, Transat and WestJet seats are all the same thickness. The proper comparison would be pitch minus thickness for each of the three.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by LO 044

Acey looking at the schedules you posted for Alberta-Hawaii flights, it seems this could be done with 3 aircraft. Is it doable? If so, where is the 4th aircraft going.

IIRC fourth aircraft don't come into the schedule until summer 2016 schedule.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Cage

Way too much schedule slack for the profitable operation. a four airplane schedule like this would mean your airplanes are spending 24 hours in hawaii.

What I suspect is that WS has not updated their turn time requirements in their scheduling system. Other option is they acquired turn time requirements from an American airline.

The problem is the WS turns of 45 min to 1 hour are possible with 763, but not advisable. It is probable that either there is another shoe to drop (Such as YVR-Hawaii also joining the program) or there will be a schedule change comming soon to airlineroute tweet.

Yeah, mine was a hack at best. The 2 a/c sounds far better, the 45 min turn was the part that pushed the 3 & 4 a/c into it, if they can push that one turn longer they'll be good. I can only only think it'll take 45 min for ground services on the 763 never mind any hiccups or delays inbound. Maybe they aren't to concerned with the inbound delays but maintenance or other delays would seem to be something that one would want to include.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Acey

Depends how tall you are I guess. Pitch is the same as econ class in the following aircraft:

Air Canada 319 (non-Rouge)
Air Canada 77W (2 class)
Air Canada A330
Air Canada 788
Air Canada CRJ100/200
United 738/739
WestJet Q400
AA Mad Dog

But the important comparison is the direct competition: WS 763 will be less pitch than Transat (32-33") but beats Rouge at 30".

It is impossible to determine legroom and comfort without knowing the seats that will be installed into the WS 767.

For example, rouge seatback pockets are at the top of the seat rather than bottom as is traditionally placed. This frees up about 1.5 inches of legroom, but makes there appear less room as 1 inch is added at eye level.

Also if WS is installing slimline seats rather than traditional seats, there is an additional 2 inches of padding with older seats.

Transat uses traditional seats, so they are comparable to Rouge slimline seats for legroom.

The other hidden factor in assessing seats is recline. For example old Continental 737 configuration allowed for 6.5 inches of recline, while old United allowed for 5 inches of recline. The extra 1.5 inch made a real difference in favour of UA while CO had officially extra legroom.

Rouge recline is 3 inches in Y and 5 inches in Y+/Premium Rouge on the 319 and 5 inches on the 763. AC mainline is 5 inches on narrowbody Airbus.

Most of the newer slimline seats are only 3 inch recline. I am hoping the new AC 73max will have 3 inch recline.

[Cage]

WS 1860 YYC 0730 - 1151 HNL 763 1
WS 1861 HNL 1330 - 2307 YYC 763 1
WS 1860 YYC 0825 - 1246 HNL 763 5
WS 1861 HNL 1425 - 2359 YYC 763 5

I just reordered the flight days and now noticed there is no 45 minute turn. The problem was that we were comparing day 1 arrival with day 5 departure. There is a natural shift in timing for each day.

It should all work out now with 2 aircraft.

ETA: WS has also padded their flight times by about 20-30 minutes. Expect their aircraft to routinely arrive in HNL and OGG early. The flight time difference is likely related to the 763 having better speed performance than 737 and 757.

My attempt, then... three free days for one frame in the middle of the week for supplemental flying... YYC-YVR-HNL-YVR possible.

Frame 1

Monday
YYC-HNL-YYC

Tuesday


Wednesday


Thursday


Friday
YYC-OGG-YEG

Saturday
YEG-OGG-YEG

Sunday
YEG-OGG-YYC

Frame 2

Monday
YYC-OGG-YEG

Tuesday
YEG-OGG-YYC

Wednesday


Thursday
YYC-OGG-YYC

Friday
YYC-HNL-YYC

Saturday
YYC-OGG-YYC

Sunday

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Cage

It is impossible to determine legroom and comfort without knowing the seats that will be installed into the WS 767.

For example, rouge seatback pockets are at the top of the seat rather than bottom as is traditionally placed. This frees up about 1.5 inches of legroom, but makes there appear less room as 1 inch is added at eye level.

Also if WS is installing slimline seats rather than traditional seats, there is an additional 2 inches of padding with older seats.

Transat uses traditional seats, so they are comparable to Rouge slimline seats for legroom.

The other hidden factor in assessing seats is recline. For example old Continental 737 configuration allowed for 6.5 inches of recline, while old United allowed for 5 inches of recline. The extra 1.5 inch made a real difference in favour of UA while CO had officially extra legroom.

Rouge recline is 3 inches in Y and 5 inches in Y+/Premium Rouge on the 319 and 5 inches on the 763. AC mainline is 5 inches on narrowbody Airbus.

Most of the newer slimline seats are only 3 inch recline. I am hoping the new AC 73max will have 3 inch recline.

Thank God I am only 5' 9" and never have to worry about this

I was on a Kuwait Airways 777 in early 2000's with two guys who were 6'4" and they had to stand in the galley for most of the flight due to excessively cramped seats.

Stoked for WS 767's ! It's gonna be great to see them docking in the IFP I suspect YYC-YYZ will see them, maybe YVR-YYZ if that market can support it and if the product is right.