Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Is the Broadway Millennium Line extension goring to be bored?

I believe that's the plan, yes. Though we won't know for sure until we see what proposal wins.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Is the Broadway Millennium Line extension goring to be bored?

from the RFP Q14-154 "Broadway SkyTrain Extension - Phase 3A Technical Services"

"Through this Request for Proposal (RFP), TransLink is seeking to retain the services of a planning and engineering consultant team to lead Phase 3A - Reference Case Development for an extension of the Millennium Line (SkyTrain) from its current terminus at VCC-Clark via a tunneled alignment along the Broadway corridor to Arbutus Street (“Broadway SkyTrain Extension”)."


It seems it has been decided that it will be tunneled, and with CoV absolutely against Cut n Cover after the Cambie subway construction fiasco, the only real alternative is TBM - similar to what Canada Line used to get under False Creek and through downtown using twin bores, and what Evergreen is using today using a single bore.


I would have thought this RFP award would have happened by now.

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Is the Broadway Millennium Line extension goring to be bored?

It will be bored AT LEAST as far as pacific spirit park, after that we don't know.
However, the first phase will probably go to Arbutus anyway, and be bored (except a shot elevated / at grade section connecting it to VCC Clark's tail track.)

[gkz]

From: http://former.vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20140204/documents/p1.pdf

Broadway Subway

It is anticipated that the Campus Lands will be the primary staging area for the tunnel boring machine and associated operations for the construction of the Broadway Subway (Figure 7). In 2011, as part of the evaluation of a new SkyTrain alignment, TransLink identified a staging area required for construction. During the Structure Planning process, City staff along with GNWC Trust worked with TransLink and their consultants to refine the 2011 staging area with site planning and grading options that minimize impacts to both Broadway Subway construction and the development aspirations of the GNWC Trust.

The analysis presented a modified staging area (see Figure 7) and identified impacts to phase one, pre-SkyTrain development sites. The City and the GNWC Trust are currently working together to find a balanced solution which mitigates the impacts of the proposed staging area on GNWC Trust’s development program but provides certainty for the successful construction of the Broadway Subway which will extend the Millennium Line westward.

[SOSS]

I assume that the project would have the TBM go slightly beyond the requirement for an Arbutus temporary terminus and be parked; thus allowing for the machine to one day in the future be fired up again to continue to where the line would become elevated.

Are the proposing a single or twin tunnel?

[Axe]

Originally Posted by SOSS

I assume that the project would have the TBM go slightly beyond the requirement for an Arbutus temporary terminus and be parked; thus allowing for the machine to one day in the future be fired up again to continue to where the line would become elevated.

Are the proposing a single or twin tunnel?

lol no it would be removed

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by SOSS

I assume that the project would have the TBM go slightly beyond the requirement for an Arbutus temporary terminus and be parked; thus allowing for the machine to one day in the future be fired up again to continue to where the line would become elevated.

Are the proposing a single or twin tunnel?

If it is phased to UBC, i doubt they'd leave a TMB sitting in a tunnel for years, even a decade, before the second phase of the line is approved.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by Jebby

If it is phased to UBC, i doubt they'd leave a TMB sitting in a tunnel for years, even a decade, before the second phase of the line is approved.

Is it not considerably cheaper (often) to leave te TBM burried than it is to pull it out? Did they not do that with Canada Line downtown? I know it's been done with many other projects TBM projects I simply hope that if the cost it high to remove it that contractors consider planning for use in future expansions (if feasible). This is something that the province would have to mandate as part of the project.

[red-paladin]

Pretty sure without constant maintenance it would turn into a big rusty mess in 10 years.

[Landmate]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Is it not considerably cheaper (often) to leave te TBM burried than it is to pull it out? Did they not do that with Canada Line downtown? I know it's been done with many other projects TBM projects I simply hope that if the cost it high to remove it that contractors consider planning for use in future expansions (if feasible). This is something that the province would have to mandate as part of the project.

I'm pretty sure the Canada Line TBM was removed from the bore hole when it was completed. As far as I remember it was disassembled and stored at the ProTrans BC yards in Richmond while it awaited a new project in Europe. Weirdly enough I can't find any evidence of this on the web though...

Apparently the Daily Planet ran a television segment on Sweet Leilani in 2008, and speculated the boring machine had another fifteen kilometers worth of capacity left, according to a post from SSP.

There was, of course, an April Fools rumor that the TTC had bought it as well.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by Landmate

I'm pretty sure the Canada Line TBM was removed from the bore hole when it was completed. As far as I remember it was disassembled and stored at the ProTrans BC yards in Richmond while it awaited a new project in Europe. Weirdly enough I can't find any evidence of this on the web though...

Apparently the Daily Planet ran a television segment on Sweet Leilani in 2008, and speculated the boring machine had another fifteen kilometers worth of capacity left, according to a post from SSP.

There was, of course, an April Fools rumor that the TTC had bought it as well.

Yes. I stand corrected. My speculation re: Canada Line TBM was inaccurate. After one tunnel was bored, the machine was disassembled at Waterfront and reassembled at the Olypic Village start location to bore the second tunnel. Couldn't find the TBMs name nor where it ended up afterwards.

Thoughts on single vs twined tunnel for this project?

[logan5]

I'd like to know what the cost savings would be for cut and cover along Broadway before we completely dismiss it. Or is cut and cover not technically possible due to a 10th ave route? Cut and cover along the Canada Line saved 500 million, so if it's in that range for Broadway, why not consider it?

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Is it not considerably cheaper (often) to leave te TBM burried than it is to pull it out? Did they not do that with Canada Line downtown? I know it's been done with many other projects TBM projects I simply hope that if the cost it high to remove it that contractors consider planning for use in future expansions (if feasible). This is something that the province would have to mandate as part of the project.

that used to be common (leaving them in a stub tunnel to rust) not anymore.

that said NYC recently did that >> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/25/nyregion/deep-below-park-avenue-a-200-ton-drill-at-rest.html

where as in Toronto they sell the machines after use >> http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/05/07/...und-after-eglinton-lrt-line-is-finished/

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by logan5

I'd like to know what the cost savings would be for cut and cover along Broadway before we completely dismiss it. Or is cut and cover not technically possible due to a 10th ave route? Cut and cover along the Canada Line saved 500 million, so if it's in that range for Broadway, why not consider it?

cause it's too much a pain for residents/businesses in the area.

[SOSS]

Likely the economic impact of cut and cover would be higher that the cost differential of c and c vs bored. Taking out the main east-west corridor would be horrible. Also, along Cambie businesses are more limited in numbers and locations compared to Broadway.

[WarrenC12]

Cambie was much wider and allowed for somewhat normal usage on one half while the other half was dug up. Broadway is smaller and already much busier.

They would basically have to close the road to cars.

[sacrifice333]

I don't know if there's space, ROW, etc., but a C&C could be done on 10th still allowing for all stations to be on Broadway (South Side of Street). Would just mean that all stations were sort of built on a 45 degree angle from street-level on Broadway to Subway level below 10th.

/armchair qb

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by sacrifice333

I don't know if there's space, ROW, etc., but a C&C could be done on 10th still allowing for all stations to be on Broadway (South Side of Street). Would just mean that all stations were sort of built on a 45 degree angle from street-level on Broadway to Subway level below 10th.

/armchair qb

VGH is on 10th, so unless you're willing to tear down part of Canada's second-largest hospital, cut-and-cover down 10th isn't going to work.

[SOSS]

Cut and cover along 10th would also have all the trees removed along that corridor. Can anyone say NIMBY?

[officedweller]

Cut and cover along 10th would work easily if the tunnel is stacked.

The excavation down Cambie St. in the village area was quite narrow and could easily fit down 10th Ave.
Access to VGH Emergency could be maintained by excavating piecemeal and decking over the excavation.

A bored tunnel whether under Broadway or 10th will likely mean deeper stations, longer access times and multiple escalators switching back (like Yaletown-Roundhouse), which also means more repair and maintenance costs.