Olympic Village & Southeast False Creek Updates Discussion

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Well concrete is only ever between floors. No building ever has concrete walls, so soundproofing there is limited to whatever insulation they use.

Not exactly. We are building Wallace & McDowell with concrete party walls between all units. Interior walls within each suite are still steel stud/drywall, as are the walls between the unit and the hallway, but the concrete party walls with definitely help cut down the noise.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

There is always a lot of bouncy floor with wood construction, and insulation is definitely bad when it comes to sounds created by floors above. Also, wood and nails tend to creak, especially over time. Another disadvantage is that it is more likely for wood to rot in moist environments, especially if you have leakage of pipes beneath sinks and bathtubs, not to mention it turning mouldy with a musty smell over time. That's why I will never buy wood, and there goes my dream of owning an affordable single family home or townhome here in western Canada.

Ya the approvals to go to 6 stories with wood-only surprised me. I'm sure it's theoretically possible to build a wood structure that doesn't suffer any of those issues, and has soundproofing. But I'd bet that costs as much as concrete and nobody is really going to do it.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

Not exactly. We are building Wallace & McDowell with concrete party walls between all units. Interior walls within each suite are still steel stud/drywall, as are the walls between the unit and the hallway, but the concrete party walls with definitely help cut down the noise.

Interesting, I've never seen that before. It would be quite obvious during construction.

[djh]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Well concrete is only ever between floors. No building ever has concrete walls, so soundproofing there is limited to whatever insulation they use.

We live in a tower now and always hear people dropping things, but nothing else.

For construction I'd be more concerned about the rainscreening and water issues than anything else.

That's blatantly inaccurate.
I owned in a concrete building for about a decade. XL Lofts, at Cambie/8th. Solid concrete floors and walls between suites.

Excellent sound insulation, but yes, you can still hear certain sounds through the walls (e.g., something metallic dropped on the concrete floor in the suite above). But not conversation sounds or music.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'll have to take a closer look, thanks. It was sold as concrete of course, but I'll reserve judgment for now. I've been in a few modern wood buildings that have great sound insulation. It's also a myth that you'll never hear your neighbours in concrete. It depends more on the people than the construction IMO.

You hear impact noises and low frequency noise (i.e. subwoofers, bass) which transmit readily through concrete.

If the construction creates a subfloor with an air gap, that would deaden the transmission of those noises (i.e. it would be a higher quality finish).

[s211]

Originally Posted by officedweller

You hear impact noises and low frequency noise (i.e. subwoofers, bass) which transmit readily through concrete.

The bane of stratas everywhere. One tatted-up d-bag can make life miserable for neighbours for up to several floors up and down.

[Homeowner]

Originally Posted by stump

That being said, it is way, way, way better than any wood frame I've been in. My mom's wood frame is only 7 years old and strata meetings are nothing but noise complaints. Neighbours can hear people walking normally, cabinets being closed, toilets flushing, etc.. My mom's floor actually shakes when the grand children of the resident below her run back and forth.

Maybe that's normal for Onni constructed buildings though. It's probably the worst and cheapest constructed building I've ever seen.

Yours is not an isolated case. I have friends that live in the GREEN development in south Burnaby - woodframe building built by ADERA. They hear the same noises and even in the strata minutes, it states it is normal to hear kitchen cabinets closing and people using their chopping board.

[Homeowner]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Ya the approvals to go to 6 stories with wood-only surprised me. I'm sure it's theoretically possible to build a wood structure that doesn't suffer any of those issues, and has soundproofing. But I'd bet that costs as much as concrete and nobody is really going to do it.

Woodframes should not be more than 4 stories. How many detached houses do you see go above 3 floors? Unfortunately there are so many 6 stories being built to save on costs. Just look at the woodframe buildings Polygon is building beside the new walmart on Alderbridge Way in Richmond.

[SFUVancouver]

I live in a wood frame condo building from the early 80s and it's pretty damn quiet. I can just barely hear my upstairs neighbour when she's on her treadmill, and now and then I hear a neighbour's stereo when they really crank it up. That's about it. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the nose abatement in some older wood frame buildings is simply greater than what is the norm today, especially when low price points are so critical to attracting buyers and making a project pencil.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Homeowner

Yours is not an isolated case. I have friends that live in the GREEN development in south Burnaby - woodframe building built by ADERA. They hear the same noises and even in the strata minutes, it states it is normal to hear kitchen cabinets closing and people using their chopping board.

I would be surprised if this is true.

I'm no expert on woodframe residential construction, but from what I've seen there is a 1 inch thick concrete layer over top of plywood (5/8?). Then the floor joists that have around 4 inches of dense mineral wool insulation stuffed in between the joists. The joist space is also lined with 2 layers of drywall for fire rating. Plus another layer of drywall.

[vanciti]

Originally Posted by Homeowner

Woodframes should not be more than 4 stories. How many detached houses do you see go above 3 floors? Unfortunately there are so many 6 stories being built to save on costs. Just look at the woodframe buildings Polygon is building beside the new walmart on Alderbridge Way in Richmond.

There is not significant cost savings with 6 story wood frame right now based on the labour market. The costs are not far off concrete.

Also, there aren't tons of 6 story condos being built, there are less than a dozen either constructed or under construction in the lower mainland currently

[vanciti]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Interesting, I've never seen that before. It would be quite obvious during construction.

The InGastown project also has quite a number of interior concrete walls throughout it.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Vin

There is always a lot of bouncy floor with wood construction, and insulation is definitely bad when it comes to sounds created by floors above. Also, wood and nails tend to creak, especially over time. Another disadvantage is that it is more likely for wood to rot in moist environments, especially if you have leakage of pipes beneath sinks and bathtubs, not to mention it turning mouldy with a musty smell over time. That's why I will never buy wood, and there goes my dream of owning an affordable single family home or townhome here in western Canada.

I live in a 40 year old wood building and while I wouldn't buy wood if I could afford concrete in the same neighbourhood, creaking, bounciness and rot have not been an issue. Even noise hasn't been an issue unless a neighbour has been obscenely loud and inconsiderate. My neighbour above me has a treadmill and I didn't even know about it until my strata president asked if it was a problem.

I was amazed at how dry and solid the insides were when we had our pipes replaced recently.The outside north wall had some easily-replaced rot on some decorative pieces but the inside looked like new, and much better quality wood than new construction.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by officedweller

You hear impact noises and low frequency noise (i.e. subwoofers, bass) which transmit readily through concrete.

If the construction creates a subfloor with an air gap, that would deaden the transmission of those noises (i.e. it would be a higher quality finish).

In about 2000 I was in my first new condo, concrete. And one night my upstairs neighbour cranked "Hit Me Baby One More Time" on repeat at 2:30am on a Thursday for around 45 mins. I could hear it as clear as day. I thought it was the beginning of the end

The next day he came down to apologize... much to my surprise he was a mid-40s eastern european guy. Pretty embarrassed of course, and was a perfect neighbour after that.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I live in a 40 year old wood building and while I wouldn't buy wood if I could afford concrete in the same neighbourhood, creaking, bounciness and rot have not been an issue. Even noise hasn't been an issue unless a neighbour has been obscenely loud and inconsiderate. My neighbour above me has a treadmill and I didn't even know about it until my strata president asked if it was a problem.

I was amazed at how dry and solid the insides were when we had our pipes replaced recently.The outside north wall had some easily-replaced rot on some decorative pieces but the inside looked like new, and much better quality wood than new construction.

Of course, not all wood structures have the problems mentioned by me, but they are more likely to happen with woodframe buildings and not so likely with concrete structures. And wood is also more prone to going up in smoke, like this wood frame condo that caught fire earlier today. I'm very sure insurance companies pay out a lot more for wood frame structures than concrete ones, not to mention the loss of lives.

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/02/major-fire-breaks-coquitlam-condo-building/

[vancouver604]

Originally Posted by Vin

There is always a lot of bouncy floor with wood construction, and insulation is definitely bad when it comes to sounds created by floors above. Also, wood and nails tend to creak, especially over time. Another disadvantage is that it is more likely for wood to rot in moist environments, especially if you have leakage of pipes beneath sinks and bathtubs, not to mention it turning mouldy with a musty smell over time. That's why I will never buy wood, and there goes my dream of owning an affordable single family home or townhome here in western Canada.

You'll have to opt for a concrete condo instead, it's a better investment - perhaps the condos on Marine Drive they are building, they seem good and solid. (At least you will be able to escape a fire easier than in a wood frame - like he polygon building at UBC a few years back! I had a colleague who barely got out of our suite after someone lit the downstairs suite bbq on fire and then she got locked into the parkade without the clicker and she had to get VFD to rescue her).

[vancouver604]

Cranes fill the area around false creek/OV with 100's of condos hitting the market soon. What they need are more townhouses, hopefully the next developer and proposal that comes forward in the area will be a townhouse project

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by vancouver604

Cranes fill the area around false creek/OV with 100's of condos hitting the market soon. What they need are more townhouses, hopefully the next developer and proposal that comes forward in the area will be a townhouse project

What exactly do you hope to get with townhouses? Given the prices in the area, they will be $1M each, so they aren't "affordable". They take away ground floor space that would be better used for retail.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by vancouver604

Cranes fill the area around false creek/OV with 100's of condos hitting the market soon. What they need are more townhouses, hopefully the next developer and proposal that comes forward in the area will be a townhouse project

There have been townhouses built in the Olympic Village at the base of just about every building, but point taken, there haven't been any pure townhouse projects and there are unlikely to be any in future phases. I could see some genuine live-work townhouse projects in the area south of SEFC, south of 2nd, west of Main, east of Cambie, and north of Broadway, but with that area intended to remain non-residential I wouldn't hold my breath. At a city-wide scale, YES, my god, do we ever need more townhouses.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by vancouver604

You'll have to opt for a concrete condo instead, it's a better investment - perhaps the condos on Marine Drive they are building, they seem good and solid. (At least you will be able to escape a fire easier than in a wood frame - like he polygon building at UBC a few years back! I had a colleague who barely got out of our suite after someone lit the downstairs suite bbq on fire and then she got locked into the parkade without the clicker and she had to get VFD to rescue her).

Yeah I do agree that the best value would be to go for "townhomes" attached to taller condos. Not only are you on solid ground, but you get a concrete structure.

Must be scary experience for your co-worker, that's why I never feel safe with a woodframe.