General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Taz's suggestions work well in a city that is working with a built environment that provides an existing residential base. In these neighborhoods, changing single-family units into duplexes can have a cumulative impact.

Downtown Phoenix, on the other hand, does not have the luxury of having older, occupied multifamily housing throughout its communities. Filling the dirt lots of Evans Churchill with even 4-family houses will never bring the needed density for the neighborhood to support retail businesses and feed into the downtown core.

There are plenty of areas where compact, lowrise residential with walk-ups would work just fine; this is the type of development I was referring to in the other thread which you seemed to not support. These could work as infill on lots where taller/denser development just doesn't make sense - for example, the empty lots along 3rd/2nd/1st Streets between Garfield and McKinley.

However, for downtown to be successful, it needs to pack density in that is just not possible through these tactics. We're essentially starting from scratch. Major parcels need to be developed into 5+ story projects; there's just no comparison between a duplex and a 200+ unit apartment.

I also think that the development patterns in Phoenix don't necessarily deserve this type of critique. Very few proposals are over 5 stories, whereas the type of anti-community, cold skyscrapers to which Taz's comments apply are typically in the 20+ area. Defining 5-story projects as highrises is simply NIMBY talk disguised. There is nothing anti-urban or anti-community about projects at those heights. And, they are essential to achieve the goals of downtown and its surrounding neighborhoods.

Where Phoenix needs to be more diligent is in the design of these 5-story projects. The height is not an issue. But, for many projects, there is an opportunity to build synergies with existing retail by including ground level, active uses. Far too often, these projects are either single-use, creating a deadzone, or include large retail spaces that are unaffordable to the downtown small business market. What's needed are projects like 4th/McKinley: 5 stories, parking via alleyway, and 10 live/work units that provide affordable space for the communities' creative class. If every lot in EC was filled with a similar project, we'd have a community worth being proud of, and I'm not going to be convinced otherwise that downtown would be better off with duplexes.

I stopped reading that blog after the author started to write condescendingly about Phoenix from self-imposed exile in Portland. Nevertheless, I recall some advocacy of duplexes even when it was a Phoenix-based blog. I disagreed then and I disagree now. I know many people who like living in apartments or condos, but I don't know anyone who likes duplexes. They occupy an uncomfortable middle ground between the autonomy of a detached single family home and the anonymity of an apartment building. I can't imagine people being lured Downtown for the privilege of living in a duplex.

Regardless, it's funny how that blog post is being used by the Save Roosevelt Row movement to argue against "high rises." In actuality, nothing being proposed for Roosevelt meets any widely-accepted definition of a high rise.