Calgary International Airport II

[Cage]

Originally Posted by thegx

It's timed for connections from within Canada at Calgary.

Also happens to coincide with dominant departure bank for WS at YYC. Jusyt about everything in WS YYC World has its start in 10-11am departure bank.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Yeah some more good news!

Encore or mainline?

I'm guessing Encore?

So AC and WS gonna start up YXT. fun times.

An announcement to be made in YHZ. I guess YHZ might be getting some love too.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=953

To quote Lewis Carroll, "Curiouser and Curiouser".

Some interesting things to look at. As pointed out by thegx, WS is dropping YVR-ORD and retiming YYC-ORD. More curiouser is that YYC-ORD loses the AA codeshare infavour of DL. Could this be the first sign that WS AA partnership will head for sunset?

YHZ is growing faster with Encore that YYZ. In fact it seems like YYZ is being overflown for Encore hub, atleast in the short term. I would be interested to find out why WS is choosing YHZ over YYZ.

From a logistics perspective, WS Encore expansion at YYZ would have to entail re-opening the T3 Satellite terminal. Perhaps this is an option unfavourable to WS; could GTAA be requiring WS to pay for the expensive renovations and facility upgrades to T3-Satellite?

Finally there is the issue of AC-UA Joint Venture. I have recently heard directly for AC Exec's the AC-UA JV was never enacted because there were too many conditions required by Canada Competition Tribunal to make the JV commercially viable. As such AC has codeshare partnership with UA, co members in star alliance, plus the TransAtlantic Joint venture together with LH group, SAS, and UA. One of the conditions placed on the AC-UA JV is carve out for all the IAH routes specifically and hub-hub routes without competition in general. YYC-IAH plus beyond revenue share was one such carve out. If WS goes into IAH for one full IATA season, then AC and UA could make another JV application to the Competition authorities. A revised JV application could come on the heals of a successful AC-CA JV approval.

[holhm22]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

I was on one of their college theme planes a while back and when the flight attendants said in their announcements "If there is anything we can do to make your flight more enjoyable please let us know" a bunch of guys in Gonzaga gear started heckling "repaint the plane".

Lol. There were some people wearing seahawks jerseys on the flight and then that got even more apparent when we arrived at Seattle. Got on a flight to Hong Kong after and the experience with Delta is top notch; may even be my new favourite. Anyways, since I finally have internet now that I'm in Hong Kong, here's an interior shot of the Q400 from row 12E.

Cage, weren't you saying the yields were not good for WS on YYC-DFW even with the AA feed?

A casual observer might then wonder how IAH is going to work for them?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

YYC-IAH going to have some much needed competition me thinks!

Yeah, the timing seems odd.

Well... these routes would have been planned well before the massive drop in oil $$ but 8 months to get it back up there :-)

Pure speculation on my part.

It would not surprise me to learn that ExxonMobil/Imperial Oil is back stopping WS entry into the market through becoming the market maker. The Chairman of Exxon is on record as calling Southwest Airlines the "Company Jet" for services between Dallas and Houston.

Previously ExxonMobil operations were all located in the SE area of Houston, closer to HOU (Hobby Airport). However new Corporater center with an expected population of 10,000 workers is being constructed in the Woodlands area just to NW of IAH.

Further speculation, but it could be that Imperial Oil corporate air travel contract has gone over to WS. This would support WS recent inclusion of DFW to the route network (although Imperial would not have the required numbers to make YYC-DFW work) and now IAH.

[Johnny Aussie]

So we seem to be making some gains on the domestic front with the upcoming AC flights to YHZ, YCD and YXT and the WS flights to YXT and YZF.

We also seem to be doing OK on the transborder front with the new DL flights to SEA and the new upcoming WS flights to AS.

Now we need to get some more International action going with the loss of significant capacity on AC to LHR and FRA and the loss of TS to FRA, and BA insisting on putting the 763 back on LHR!

PEK anyone... anyone? Starting to get a weeee bit late for a summer start now.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

PEK anyone... anyone? Starting to get a weeee bit late for a summer start now.

In the AC-CA JV announcement, it was mentioned the JV will not begin until at least October or November.The AC widebody fleet is fully committed through to end of September, so I would not expect PEK to start until at least October or November at the earliest.

Yikes, UA cutting DEN service from YXE and YQR.

http://regina.ctvnews.ca/united-airlines-pulling-flights-from-regina-saskatoon-to-denver-1.2197733

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Acey

Yikes, UA cutting DEN service from YXE and YQR.

http://regina.ctvnews.ca/united-airlines-pulling-flights-from-regina-saskatoon-to-denver-1.2197733

The cities were barely filling 50 seat RJ's. further the flights required an extended turnaround time in DEN as the planes were required to be gated on the A concourse while rest of UA was gated at concourse B. YXE and YQR shared company with NRT 788 service and small bunch of Mexican Charters as the only UA flights gated on A. Overall too small potatoes for the effort.

Also this helps YYC out quite a bit to retain mainline or large RJ service to DEN as these pax will now be connected through YYC.

[Robag]

Originally Posted by Cage

The cities were barely filling 50 seat RJ's. further the flights required an extended turnaround time in DEN as the planes were required to be gated on the A concourse while rest of UA was gated at concourse B. YXE and YQR shared company with NRT 788 service and small bunch of Mexican Charters as the only UA flights gated on A. Overall too small potatoes for the effort.

Also this helps YYC out quite a bit to retain mainline or large RJ service to DEN as these pax will now be connected through YYC.

Incorrect, every time I've flown through Den, the planes were full and often times, they were overbooked. Many people that live here that I've talked to over the years that flew with them, were always upset about being bumped off the flights as it was overbooked. I guess my last flight with them is Feb 28th. Hopefully that flight still flies into YQR that day.

[PPAR]

Originally Posted by Cage

To quote Lewis Carroll, "Curiouser and Curiouser".


YHZ is growing faster with Encore that YYZ. In fact it seems like YYZ is being overflown for Encore hub, atleast in the short term. I would be interested to find out why WS is choosing YHZ over YYZ...

I would guess this is part of a strategy to block Porter Airlines from becoming a dominant force in Atlantic Canada: 'Don't attack you foe's main force (YYZ), attack the weak flank instead (YHZ)'.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Robag

Incorrect, every time I've flown through Den, the planes were full and often times, they were overbooked. Many people that live here that I've talked to over the years that flew with them, were always upset about being bumped off the flights as it was overbooked. I guess my last flight with them is Feb 28th. Hopefully that flight still flies into YQR that day.

Regardless, UA sees these routes as unviable in their greater scheme of things. Usually the excuses they give to the public are just the stock standard ones like in this article, with some added excuses this time.

That is a huge hit to both YQR and YXE for transborder along with the loss of ORD... seems to have wound back years of growth.

But yeah this will be good news for YYC as YYC would be the most logical connecting point transborder.

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Cage

The flights required an extended turnaround time in DEN as the planes were required to be gated on the A concourse while rest of UA was gated at concourse B. YXE and YQR shared company with NRT 788 service and small bunch of Mexican Charters as the only UA flights gated on A. Overall too small potatoes for the effort.

Also this helps YYC out quite a bit to retain mainline or large RJ service to DEN as these pax will now be connected through YYC.

Off topic but, are NRT, Mexico and (now former) YXE/YQR the only "International" flights UA has into Denver? Not even LHR?? That sounds kinda sad not to even have service from such a large hub on it's home base carrier to London.

Back on topic, good for UA for trying YMM, YXE and YQR but I think the market still needs to grow and mature for a route as long as DEN. Hopefully this adds a few more bums to the potential Western Canada (ie. YYC) to DEN service on WS

What are the chances that YXE & YQR get US Preclearance in the next 10 years? I know YXE recently did a renovation/expansion. Would also like to see preclearance at YYJ and YTZ, especially YYJ!

[Robag]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Regardless, UA sees these routes as unviable in their greater scheme of things. Usually the excuses they give to the public are just the stock standard ones like in this article, with some added excuses this time.

That is a huge hit to both YQR and YXE for transborder along with the loss of ORD... seems to have wound back years of growth.

But yeah this will be good news for YYC as YYC would be the most logical connecting point transborder.

I know the folks at YYC don't care, but the airfares were high to begin with out of YQR/YXE, and now they are only going to get more expensive. A colleague of mine is planning a trip to PHL in March, and the price on Delta jumped from $490 ro $750 yesterday. Coincidence?

Both AC and WS rake us over the coals when we want to fly south.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

But yeah this will be good news for YYC as YYC would be the most logical connecting point transborder.

Judging by the number of people I see wearing Roughrider gear or hats/jackets with a fertilizer/farm implement dealer's logo on them, I think a good number of people from Sask are connecting to UA flights in YWG too.

Strictly a casual observation of course, but in my view definitely a noticeable uptick since ORD service ended to Sask. YYC obviously has nothing to worry about, but hopefully this bump will help YWG hang on to its existing UA flights... I don't want to think about the effect on pricing it would have if UA withdrew from this market.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by PPAR

I would guess this is part of a strategy to block Porter Airlines from becoming a dominant force in Atlantic Canada: 'Don't attack you foe's main force (YYZ), attack the weak flank instead (YHZ)'.

Most likely its the case of going after the low hanging fruit and trying to duplicate out east what you have out west.

If AC is raking people on the east coast over the coals then WJ can still go in there, lower prices and still make good money.

The other thing it could be is that because of the relatively lower populations of the major centers then funneling more people into one location (say YHZ) can allow for more direct 737 service to YHZ. Maybe open more direct daily flights from western Canada or down to Florida etc.

If yields out of YYZ are good, then with the one aircraft size it doesnt make much sense to increase feed until you upguage in size.

[North_Regina_Boy]

Originally Posted by Cage

The cities were barely filling 50 seat RJ's. further the flights required an extended turnaround time in DEN as the planes were required to be gated on the A concourse while rest of UA was gated at concourse B. YXE and YQR shared company with NRT 788 service and small bunch of Mexican Charters as the only UA flights gated on A. Overall too small potatoes for the effort.

Also this helps YYC out quite a bit to retain mainline or large RJ service to DEN as these pax will now be connected through YYC.

I think if United put an Embraer 190 on the YXE route to KDEN it would be a better option. As then it would be a better ride. YQR doesn't need it. Saskatoon is closer to the hunting camps up north anyway. A lot of people I spoke to were more interested in the routing through KMSP because of the bigger plane. And almost no people were routing through KORD. It was strictly a destination as the terminal switch was causing issues.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by North_Regina_Boy

I think if United put an Embraer 190 on the YXE route to KDEN it would be a better option. As then it would be a better ride. YQR doesn't need it. Saskatoon is closer to the hunting camps up north anyway. A lot of people I spoke to were more interested in the routing through KMSP because of the bigger plane. And almost no people were routing through KORD. It was strictly a destination as the terminal switch was causing issues.

Originally Posted by Robag

Incorrect, every time I've flown through Den, the planes were full and often times, they were overbooked. Many people that live here that I've talked to over the years that flew with them, were always upset about being bumped off the flights as it was overbooked.

Perhaps I should back track for one moment. When I say that YQR/YXE-DEN route was barely filling 50 seat RJ's, it was in regards to load factors for 40-48 seats satisfied the entire market. So if the airline puts a 70 seat RJ onto the route the seats filled were still 40-48.

40 seats are filled during the lighter portions of the week, so Thursday to Sunday for the YXE/YQR-DEN portion and Sunday to Wednesday for the DEN-YQR/YXE are considered the shoulder portions of the week.

48-50 Seats are filled during the other portions of the week. This traffic pattern suggests there is a clear unidirectional pattern, traffic leaves YQR/YXE in the earlier part of the week and returns in the later part of the week.

The above analysis supports Robag's assertions regarding bums in seats. I base the analysis on review of united.com and counting seats 1-7 days before departure.

There are a couple of other factors at play. UA is replacing 50 seat aircraft with 70-76 seat aircraft. Concurrent with the larger airplane, the seat amenities are also enhanced through inclusion of economy plus. To make the larger aircraft work the users must be willing to buy up to the more expensive seats. However for YQR/YXE this was not the case, note this is consistent with most other Canadian cities. Lack of pax acceptance to buy-up to economy plus is the major reason why YYC/YVR-IAH sees the xCO 738s that do not have economy plus (20 aircraft have midcabin lavs and no E+).

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Off topic but, are NRT, Mexico and (now former) YXE/YQR the only "International" flights UA has into Denver? Not even LHR?? That sounds kinda sad not to even have service from such a large hub on it's home base carrier to London.

Back on topic, good for UA for trying YMM, YXE and YQR but I think the market still needs to grow and mature for a route as long as DEN. Hopefully this adds a few more bums to the potential Western Canada (ie. YYC) to DEN service on WS

What are the chances that YXE & YQR get US Preclearance in the next 10 years? I know YXE recently did a renovation/expansion. Would also like to see preclearance at YYJ and YTZ, especially YYJ!

I would guess slim to none. I don't think US Customs and Border have any interest in expanding to additional cities. From what I hear (rumors only) they are having issues staffing some of the ones they have now including YYC and probably moreso YEG.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by lubicon

From what I hear (rumors only) they are having issues staffing some of the ones they have now including YYC and probably moreso YEG.

I would agree that they limit to hubs, and that doesn't preclude removing YEG from the list.