Calgary International Airport II

[Jimby]

I would rather go to Memphis if we're choosing destinations to fly to in Tennessee!

[VIce]

Originally Posted by North_Regina_Boy

My favorite plane and one of my favorite airlines! I can imagine that some of the service will be YYC-YYZ and YYC-YUL

Maybe YYZ-YVR

Can't wait to see it flying... And I don't think they are new jets, just "new to Westjet" jets. As boeing no longer produces them correct? Wonder if they would overhaul older A/C 767-333?

Rumor mill says that they are ex-Qantas jets based on when Qantas is planning on retiring a handful of 767s, and when WestJet is planning entry into service. Qantas doesn't have winglets though, so they might be added during refit.

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by Cage

The YYC international terminal concept of being called to the gate will absolutely not work with WN boarding procedures.

I'm not getting the impression it "works" for anybody.

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by Doug

I've never had a bad experience on Southwest.

Neither have I. Although some of their people give them off the same cultish vibe as "Westjetters"

[PPAR]

Interesting interview on BNN yesterday with an airline analyst. He didn't think southwest was likely to enter Canada. Lack of 'low hanging fruit' as he said. Compared to Caribbean/ Mexico there is too much competition already.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Sometimes I do get a good laugh from some comments....

According to CANSIM data Nashville to/from all of Canada had about 83,000 total O&D traffic for 2012. About 113 pax per day travelling from Canada to Nashville.

I think this number alone would indicate not that many people would be travelling from Calgary (or anywhere else in Canada) to Nashville.

Calgary traffic is 8,090 in 2012.

Traffic in general:
Las Vegas, Nevada : 290,116 Direct
Los Angeles, California : 233,452 Direct
Phoenix, Arizona : 230,266 Direct
Hawaii, Hawaii : 178,899 Direct
Houston, Texas : 168,980 Direct
New York, New York : 123,078 Direct
San Francisco/Oakland, California : 114,097 Direct
Palm Springs, California : 88,182 Direct
Orlando, Florida : 81,657 Direct
Chicago, Illinois : 75,941 Direct
Seattle/Tacoma, Washington : 66,790 Direct
San Diego, California : 58,941 Direct
Denver, Colorado : 54,730 Direct
Dallas-Ft Worth, Texas : 45,500 Direct
Washington/Baltimore, District of Columbia : 34,500
Ft Lauderdale, Florida : 30,591
Boston, Massachusetts : 29,560
Miami, Florida : 27,781
Minneapolis-St Paul, Minnesota : 24,490 Direct
Atlanta, Georgia : 21,420
Portland, Oregon : 20,380 Seasonal
Tampa/St Petersburg, Florida : 19,313
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania : 17,730
Salt Lake City, Utah : 17,060
Charlotte, North Carolina : 16,380
New Orleans, Louisiana : 16,130
Austin, Texas : 14,950
San Antonio, Texas : 13,350
Detroit, Michigan : 10,690
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania : 10,430
St Louis, Missouri : 10,290
Sacramento, California : 8,400
Nashville, Tennessee : 8,090
Kansas City, Missouri : 7,990

Not many even marginal routes left. Ft Lauderdale didn't work, so likely not Miami unless it is American feeding their hub for points south as 10,383 Calgary passengers transited internationally through Miami.

[The Fisher Account]

Everyone I've talked to who has been to Nashville has told me it's an awesome town and super underrated by Canadians

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Sometimes I do get a good laugh from some comments....

According to CANSIM data Nashville to/from all of Canada had about 83,000 total O&D traffic for 2012. About 113 pax per day travelling from Canada to Nashville.

I think this number alone would indicate not that many people would be travelling from Calgary (or anywhere else in Canada) to Nashville.

While BNA and MEM are out of the running for YYC service, our best hope is to get ATL service on DL for at least daily frequency (I don't count 1x week on Saturdays). I think ATL is achievable, especially if WS codeshares and develops a codeshare combination between ATL and Florida.

The other possibility is UA EWR service similar to YEG-EWR run. (If UA can make YEG work then YYC should be a better proposition. I realise this could affect UA ORD services and result in reduction.

[dansk]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Everyone I've talked to who has been to Nashville has told me it's an awesome town and super underrated by Canadians

One of my favourite cities in the US.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

I'm not getting the impression it "works" for anybody.

Call to gate concept works well for Westjet and their pax:
- WS pax typically arrive at the airport well in advance of departure, sometimes between 2-3 hours before departure.
- WS does not have Frequent Flyer Program with lounge and other priority services. Therefore very few pax have somewhere else to be before boarding.
- WS does not have overly structured boarding procedure, so they do not require a large amount of branding and company specific equipment at the gate.
- WS does require lots of open gates so that planes can arrive, unload, load, and departure within short timeframe. Delays caused by other aircraft on the gate are a major disruption to their schedule. being able to change gate designations on moment notice is a major benefit.

However the primary benefit of call to gate is too the airport authority. They can get additional retail and F&B revenue from pax waiting in the central area. The ability to use common use equipment at the gates results in more efficient operations and less capital outlay for the building.

Originally Posted by Cage

The other possibility is UA EWR service similar to YEG-EWR run. (If UA can make YEG work then YYC should be a better proposition. I realise this could affect UA ORD services and result in reduction.

Given the revenue sharing, wouldn't they just upguage AC's own YYC-EWR if they wanted more seats there?

Funny we compare WS to WN... because the real WN clones are coming.

A new airline in Canada has big plans to bring “ultra low cost” airfares to travellers priced as much as 40% cheaper than what WestJet and Air Canada sell flights for.
Jetlines will reach its low-price goal by taking a page from similar budget airlines elsewhere stripping away just about every conceivable frill.

Flying into secondary airports rather than main hubs at major Canadian and U.S. destinations is another tactic Jetlines will use to keep fares very low, Solloway said.

"Basically you purchase a seat and seatbelt," Solloway said. Everything else, from luggage to snacks, comes at an additional charge. Jetlines also plans to pack more seats, or "condense the airplane", on every flight, lowering its cost per customer.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1483295/new-ultra-low-cost-air-carrier-jetlines-aims-for-spring-launch/

Jesus...

YXX, YYJ, et al. for the Vancouver airport but what's the secondary airport you could land a 319 at around here? Surely we'll be spared from carnage, initially. Jetsgo v2, or the next big thing?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Acey

Given the revenue sharing, wouldn't they just upguage AC's own YYC-EWR if they wanted more seats there?

Short answer is no. To fully explain the reason for no, one has to look at the purpose for the AC YYC-EWR vs UA YEG-EWR.

The AC service is timed so that passengers are either destined for YYC or New York Region; the timing also deters pax from making connections at EWR to the European and Eastern USA markets.

The UA service is timed to meet the full European departure bank. In this sense the UA YEG-EWR flight competes with AC offerings over YYZ.

The two missions are separate. The AC service is pure O&D while UA relies on EWR connections. I believe that both missions can be accomplished on YYC-EWR. That is UA adds a early morning departure late afternoon arrival into YYC that feeds their domestic bank.

As far as revenue sharing, it is more profitable for AC to fly pax through their entire network than to hand the same pax to UA to take for 60% of the journey.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Acey

Funny we compare WS to WN... because the real WN clones are coming.



http://globalnews.ca/news/1483295/new-ultra-low-cost-air-carrier-jetlines-aims-for-spring-launch/

Jesus...

YXX, YYJ, et al. for the Vancouver airport but what's the secondary airport you could land a 319 at around here? Surely we'll be spared from carnage, initially. Jetsgo v2, or the next big thing?

This whole press release is so contradictory. They say the biggest opportunity is to lure the 5 million passengers who bleed across the border, yet their startup routes are to be in Western Canada only then expand in Canada THEN to the US.

They say they will use secondary airports. Other than YXX in the YVR area, name me one other secondary airport in Western Canada that could be used as an alternate? Sorry cannot think of one.

Also suggesting using fewer flight attendants!? Huh?

Interesting too if they aren't going to fly out of YVR (as clearly that isn't "secondary") what a strange place to hold their press update.

Comparing to ULCC in Australia... Yup it definitely gets people travelling and fills up a lot of seats... But by the latest counts Tigerair, for example, is losing about $2 million per week.

I for one am taking advantage of a new nonstop route between Melbourne and Ayers Rock in 2 weeks. About a 3 hour 20 min flght each way for $99 each way all up! U never ever see fares like that in Canada...

Soooo... Good luck to them.

[Bokimon]

In YYC they will operate out of Springbank probably..That's how cheap they will go lol.
If the deals are that good then I wont mind the drive to that airport, it has an ILS at least on their main runway so a regional aircraft may work up to possibly a 737. (If it can handle a 100 foot wide runway)

[Jimby]

Would people in Calgary and Edmonton be willing to drive to Red Deer for cheap fares to eastern Canada and southern resorts?

They do A318 ops from a 5,000 x 100 foot runway at London City Airport but that's at sea level. YBW's extreme lack of airside facilities the much larger problem with that plan, I think.

Originally Posted by Jimby

Would people in Calgary and Edmonton be willing to drive to Red Deer for cheap fares to eastern Canada and southern resorts?

Probably yeah, but what does YQF's terminal even consist of? Never been there. Not to mention this whole very short and narrow runway ops for a heavy A319 is a pretty big problem. I watch the UA and AA 319's leave in the morning using the majority of runway 02/20 here at YEG in ~20 degree temps, and it's 11,000 feet long. They're derating, no doubt, but still... you're not getting anywhere significantly far from YQF without stopping in YYC for more gas first.

[Johnny Aussie]

Can't see either one being viable based on their business plan.

Both airports probably wouldn't be able to handle an A319 without significant upgrades/investment and to pull enough people from both Calgary and Edmonton.

I could see Encore going in to Red Deer just to push them out anyway.

[Johnny Aussie]

Looking at CANSIM data for 2012 earlier I prepared this info comparing the total O&D markets of the largest Canadian transborder markets and then relative to their population.

This certainly shows just how large the YYC transborder market is and how large it is compared to our population.

Source: CANSIM data for 2012.

Figure in brackets is passenger numbers compared to CMA population for 2012 per Stats Canada.

Toronto 6,454,520 (1.10)
Vancouver 2,943,829 (1.22)
Montreal 2,565,398 (0.65)
Calgary 2,389,050 (1.83)
Edmonton 1,338,738 (1.08)
Ottawa 858,204 (0.67)
Winnipeg 539,603 (0.71)
Halifax 441,478 (1.08)

It also appears that in 2014 YYC has overtaken YUL as the 3rd largest transborder O&D market in Canada.

Incredible for a city of only 1.3 million compared to a city of almost 4 million!

I think this really does show how big a business city YYC has become and its ties to the USA.

[MalcolmTucker]

Using those numbers we can also figure out how many people are hubbing through Calgary and other cities roughly - not perfectly due to catchment areas being different sizes of course. 2,729,130 boardings and arrivals for 2012 for a net loss of 340,080 transborder passengers due to hubbing through other airports.

Edit: bad at math! advantage Calgary!