Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Rico]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I honestly believe that LRT is just a trend that will disappear eventually. It seems like a lot of cities are building LRT lines just because you're supposed to have them, not because they actually need them.

LRT will not disappear it is a very versitile adaptable technology. That said its versitility results in some people advocating for it in places were a higher or lower capacity/cost system is more appropriate. LRT could work for Broadway it is just RRT is so much better for Broadway.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Rico

LRT will not disappear it is a very versitile adaptable technology. That said its versitility results in some people advocating for it in places were a higher or lower capacity/cost system is more appropriate. LRT could work for Broadway it is just RRT is so much better for Broadway.

Yeah, you're right. Even I think that there are times where LRT is a good option, mainly as either a commuter service in the median of a big highway, like Calgary or in situations where a subway would be impossible to build and an elevated line would objectively ruin a neighbourhood, like Steveston.

Honestly I could go on about LRT forever, but as long as we continue avoiding it here in Vancouver I feel like I really don't need to keep telling everyone how I feel about it

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Why???? He is just a loud mouth but ultimately harmless. Neither Translink, the Feds or the Province take him seriously.

The only reason why the media gives him attention is because its a slow news day. He's not the only transit enthusiast that the media listens too....the SkytrainForSurrey guy gets it too, as well as Gordon Price, Stephen Reese, and so on.

I would never consider him to be of the same caliber as Gordon Price or Stephen Reese.

The biggest problem I have with MJ is that he purposely puts out blatant lies to push his agenda. And his only agenda is the train to chilliwack. He doesn't care one bit about any other transit in the lower mainland. So he puts out quotes like in the article basically saying Broadway doesn't need an improvement just so that money can be saved for his pet project.


Anyhow this is getting off topic.

[Klazu]

Considering that SSP is the biggest and most active development-related forum in BC, one would think that also this Malcolm Johnston guy frequents our little forum. Who admits being him behind an alias?

[officedweller]

I don't think there's anyone espousing super extreme pro-LRT views (and I suspect that he wouldn't be able to contain himself).

Originally Posted by dleung

So why does it cost 3 billion?

Here's the kicker... you'd think they'd go elevated or at-grade here, or at least do cut-and-cover in such a no-man's zone, but the entire route is bored tunnel

The concept of adapting to the environment is lost on their recent projects.
The Spadina Line travels OVER the 401 - yet will travel UNDER the 407.
The stations are also massive - dep, full subway length with mezzanines, etc.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Considering that SSP is the biggest and most active development-related forum in BC, one would think that also this Malcolm Johnston guy frequents our little forum. Who admits being him behind an alias?

Just a quick word....

Amongst the four transit media personalities in Metro Vancouver, only Darryl De La Cruz (SkytrainforSurrey.org) is active in this forum and is well known amongst the regulars. I don't believe Gordon Price or Stephen Reese actually posts here, but its possible that Malcolm may have.

The thing though is Malcolm is more active in the news websites such as News 1130, Vancouver Sun / Province, and the Georgia Straight, as well as the community papers like Surrey Now, Delta Optomist, etc. The only reason why we know it is him in the Vancouver Sun / Province is because those sites uses Facebook. For the others, he tend to go with different aliases, but as I mentioned before, its fairly easy to spot him.

If Malcolm Johnston does post in SSP, he sure is doing a good job keeping his alias hidden, which would take a lot of discipline in his part since his posting style is very obvious. So we can only assume that maybe he simply does not post at all. After all, this is extremely hostile territory for him. I believe he generally considers SSP forumers as part of the "Skytrain Lobby"...

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

so now the air can only escape at the ends of the tunnels -- UBC and Great Northern Way.

Air would also be pushed out through the tunnel vent shafts needed at each station ( a la Canada Line )

[GlassCity]

Okay, I'll admit it, I'm Malcolm Johnson. I'm surprised you guys couldn't tell, I practically don't stop talking about my love for LRT!

[jlousa]

Guys lets not poke the bear. We've had members like him here before and it's difficult for the mods to get rid of them because they bring out the worst in other forumers and we end up in a position where regular forums are the ones that end up getting banned while the problem user is careful enough not to cross the line. Do not encourage him to join the forum will suffer.

[Whalleyboy]

Originally Posted by amor de cosmos

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Vancouv...e+considered+national/9555121/story.html

I find this wrong on so many levels of being of nation significance in our region. We have aging structures such as pattullo falling apart and in risk of coming down and killing many with a small earth quake or even a boat hitting it. If that does scream this is more important too you you may want to rethink your way of thought.

I mean I understand UBC line is important. But this line I must say is less important then something like that bridge getting fixed

[idunno]

I think the mayor was making that statement so that it would attract the attention of the feds, who just announced their new infrastructure funding package. And you guys are right, there is no harm done in self-promoting a project like this.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by idunno

I think the mayor was making that statement so that it would attract the attention of the feds, who just announced their new infrastructure funding package. And you guys are right, there is no harm done in self-promoting a project like this.

Whalleyboy does have a point though. If there are $4 billion dollars worth of infrastructure that needs to be upgraded due to public safety, then it should have priority. Even Gordo insisted that the Kicking Horse Pass was *the priority* of the Province than Canada Line, despite the fact that its in the boonies and not needed for the Olympics. But of course, the Province had no issues funding both.

Ensuring public safety should come first over a UBC student having less travel time. Gregor can self promote all he wants, but at the end of the day, I hope the Feds are smart enough to ensure that those projects around the nation that truly needs the money get first dibs...

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by Whalleyboy

I mean I understand UBC line is important. But this line I must say is less important then something like that bridge getting fixed

...but why should the mayor of Vancouver advocate for a bridge that's not in his jurisdiction? I'm not debating the merits of it either way, but that's clearly not his job.

[Echowinds]

Whalleyboy does have a point though. If there are $4 billion dollars worth of infrastructure that needs to be upgraded due to public safety, then it should have priority. Even Gordo insisted that the Kicking Horse Pass was *the priority* of the Province than Canada Line, despite the fact that its in the boonies and not needed for the Olympics. But of course, the Province had no issues funding both.

Ensuring public safety should come first over a UBC student having less travel time. Gregor can self promote all he wants, but at the end of the day, I hope the Feds are smart enough to ensure that those projects around the nation that truly needs the money get first dibs...

You build the Broadway line mainly to serve the 2nd most important employment centre after the downtown core. Building it to UBC is just something that should be done for efficiency, since you're going to eventually build it anyways and it's cheaper in the long run to build it in one go. While connecting it to UBC is not the most critical thing for the region, it is still a growing area and one of the more crucial institution in BC. It also has quite an economic impact for the region. I also don't see the constant harping that UBC students are not deserving of faster transit times just like everyone else, especially considering UBC students that use transit comes from all across the metro. Building a line to Langley, for instance, will only mainly benefit Surrey and Langley residents, but a line to UBC and Broadway will benefit nearly everyone, even if the main beneficiary is still Vancouver. The no-brainer line should the fund be available, really.

Public safety is all well and good, but in general draw a line somewhere because there's always areas to improve in this department. Balance must be found in maintaining the current infrastructure and building new pieces to accommodate the expanding population. A larger earthquake will demolish other bridges like the Oak just as much as it would the Patullo, so should we go out of the way to rebuild every bridge in the name of safety? The Patullo is even less of a national concern considering it's really just a local bridge intended for local traffic, and there are alternatives in the area, including a bridge we just spent billions on. Patullo definitely needs to be rebuilt in the near future, but I don't really consider it any more of a national concern compared to the Broadway line.

And really, Robertson is doing the right thing to promote the most pressing infrastructural need for his city right now.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

...but why should the mayor of Vancouver advocate for a bridge that's not in his jurisdiction? I'm not debating the merits of it either way, but that's clearly not his job.

No one is disputing what Gregor is doing and why. But the point people have to realize, and a lot do (and hopefully the *right people* as well), that there are infrastructure projects across the nation that deserves the $4 billion dollars more so than the Broadway Line.

Originally Posted by Echowinds

Public safety is all well and good, but in general draw a line somewhere because there's always areas to improve in this department. Balance must be found in maintaining the current infrastructure and building new pieces to accommodate the expanding population. A larger earthquake will demolish other bridges like the Oak just as much as it would the Patullo, so should we go out of the way to rebuild every bridge in the name of safety?

Public safety is paramount above all else. And there is little you can do with large earthquakes if properly built structures still cannot withstand it, but those don't happen as often as smaller ones and boats hitting. So for heavily travelled bridges that can be knocked down by a minor tremor or boating accident, absolutely! Not just the Patullo but for every single bridge in the nation that is in the same boat, whatever those may be.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Echowinds

A larger earthquake will demolish other bridges like the Oak just as much as it would the Patullo, so should we go out of the way to rebuild every bridge in the name of safety?

The pressing issue with the Patullo isn't so much an earthquake as it is the cost of keeping the bridge standing. It's basically at end-of-life, so it makes a lot more sense to spend the money on a replacement rather on trying to keep it standing.

If the government is to be believed, the same applies to the Massey Tunnel.

But rather than see huge 10-lane replacements for these kinds of things, I'd far rather see smaller scale replacements with the savings invested in transit. You can buy a lot more river crossing capacity by investing in transit than you can in roads. Both are important, but it really feels like transit has been getting the short end of the stick these last few years.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

No one is disputing what Gregor is doing and why. But the point people have to realize, and a lot do (and hopefully the *right people* as well), that there are infrastructure projects across the nation that deserves the $4 billion dollars more so than the Broadway Line.

That's probably true, but we don't need to debate the merits each one in this thread, do we?

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

That's probably true, but we don't need to debate the merits each one in this thread, do we?

Not really. I just posted it to reiterate Whalleyboy's comment, since even I realized that his point was spot on and need to be recognized as such. The thing though is some people are just so obsessed to get this project off the ground they can loose perspective.

Gregor is simply scheming to get funds for his legacy project, and that's his job. If he succeeds, he has a legacy, if he doesn't, he can tell the voters in November that he tried to look out for them. If the $4 billion fund is set aside for, say "projects to advance the accessibility of disabled people", he'll change his tone and customize his response for it, saying "Broadway Line will enabled immobile people to get to UBC faster" or something like that.

Its like when the Evergreen Line was funded by Harper "since its good for the economy" since during the time of the Fed announcement, "stimulus packages" to help combat the 2009 recession where the buzzwords to score votes...

[squeezied]

I don't dispute that public safety is of utmost importance. But this just sounds like a convenient excuse from the pro-Surrey/anti-Broadway guys to downplay on the importance of the Broadway line. I take it you guys don't support expansion of any kind, because there will always be existing infrastructures that need to be upgraded or replaced.

If public funding should only be prioritized towards the issues of existing infrastructures, then that's more of a case for the Broadway line to go ahead well before the Surrey LRT.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by squeezied

I don't dispute that public safety is of utmost importance. But this just sounds like a convenient excuse from the pro-Surrey/anti-Broadway guys to downplay on the importance of the Broadway line. I take it you guys don't support expansion of any kind, because there will always be existing infrastructures that need to be upgraded or replaced.

If public funding should only be prioritized towards the issues of existing infrastructures, then that's more of a case for the Broadway line to go ahead well before the Surrey LRT.

Well...there you have it...