Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[nname]

Originally Posted by officedweller

It's no longer on-line as it was a background document for an RFP.

I have the documents saved here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/y95j133d61ar12a/TransLink_RTM_2007.zip

[deasine]

Originally Posted by nname

I have the documents saved here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/y95j133d61ar12a/TransLink_RTM_2007.zip

Can always count on you! Thanks!

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

According to the Evergreen docs, when the extension is finished the entire line from VCC-Clark through Lougheed to Lafarge Lake-Douglas will become "The Millennium Line".

The existing Expo line from Waterfront to King George will not be changed, so those trains will still be Expo line trains "to King George" terminal or "to Waterfront" terminal.

The trains from Waterfront to Lougheed (via New Westminster and Braid) will become Expo line trains "to Lougheed" terminal or "to Waterfront" terminal. Expo trains will not run west of Lougheed in regular passenger service.

Therefore the Expo line and Millennium line will run as separate and independent lines, with only Lougheed and Commercial/Broadway stations being the interchange points for passengers between the two lines.

Lougheed is the interchange point for trains, so access to/from the Edmonds maintenance centre can be made by trains on either the Expo or Millennium lines.

When The "Broadway-UBC" extension is built west of VCC-Clark, it too will be part of the "The Millennium Line" when it opens.

Update:

I was having a bit of confusion caused by Olympics Hockey and Beer, so the above info is somewhat incorrect.

a) The existing Expo line from Waterfront to King George will not be changed, so those trains will still be Expo line trains "to King George" terminal or "to Waterfront" terminal.

b) The existing Millennium trains from Waterfront to Lougheed (via New Westminster and Braid) will continue to be the Millennium line trains "to Lougheed" terminal or "to Waterfront" terminal. Millennium trains will not run west of Lougheed in regular passenger service.

c) The trains from VCC-Clark through Lougheed to Lafarge Lake-Douglas will become "The Evergreen Line".

from:
Evergreen Line RTP
PROJECT AGREEMENT
SCHEDULE 1: DEFINITIONS AND INTERPRETATION

“Expo Line” means that part of the Existing SkyTrain System operated by TransLink as of the Effective Date under the name “Expo Line”, from the Waterfront Station terminus in Vancouver through Columbia Station in New Westminster to the King George Station terminus in Surrey, generally as illustrated on the aerial photograph below:

[image skipped because nothing is different]


“Future Millennium Line” means that part of the Integrated SkyTrain System extending from Waterfront Station terminus in Vancouver through Columbia Station in New Westminster to Lougheed Town Centre Station in Burnaby, generally as illustrated on the aerial photograph below:




“Operational Evergreen Line” means the Evergreen Line plus that portion of the Existing Millennium Line between Lougheed Town Centre Station in Burnaby to VCC-Clark Station in Vancouver, generally as illustrated on the aerial photograph below:





My speculation is that any extension west of VCC-Clark to UBC will also become part of "The Evergreen Line".

Although, recently I've heard someone call it the 'Brain Train' because it will link UBC, BCIT, SFU and Douglas College.

[rsxstock]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Although, recently I've heard someone call it the 'Brain Train' because it will link UBC, BCIT, SFU and Douglas College.

lol please no... so corny... might as well call it book worm

[Meraki]

I would hope that they modify Production Way-University once they extend to UBC. Having three stops of schools be (assumed) UBC-Wesbrook, Production Way-University and Lafarge Lake-Douglas they'd rename the Millennium Line station to Production Way-SFU to have a consistent naming scheme.

Though my hopes are low considering how terrible the reported Evergreen Line stations names are, clashing with everything else in the system. "Who cares about the cross-street! Just take [Community Name] and add Centre to the end!"

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by logan5

Originally the travel time from Commercial to UBC was 20 minutes for RRT. Then, I think the RRT time dropped to 19 minutes This document now says the travel time for RRT, Commercial to UBC is 17 minutes. I'm not sure if they are subtracting stations as they go along, but the travel times change periodically, or maybe there are a few different documents floating around.

I'd guess it may have to do with the tunnel possibly being able to be constructed for a higher speed standard. The Mk II design in use at the JFK AirTrain cruises at closer to 100km/h than our SkyTrain's 80. Mk III (Innovia 300) trains will probably be capable of the same, and then the rest is up to the ROW and the operator's preferences.

[huenthar]

Originally Posted by logan5

Originally the travel time from Commercial to UBC was 20 minutes for RRT. Then, I think the RRT time dropped to 19 minutes This document now says the travel time for RRT, Commercial to UBC is 17 minutes. I'm not sure if they are subtracting stations as they go along, but the travel times change periodically, or maybe there are a few different documents floating around.

Well, the distance that had always been given (13 km) divided by the average operating speed of the existing Skytrain lines (45 km/h) gives 17 min, so I don't know why they would have thought it would be slower before.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Meraki

I would hope that they modify Production Way-University once they extend to UBC. Having three stops of schools be (assumed) UBC-Wesbrook, Production Way-University and Lafarge Lake-Douglas they'd rename the Millennium Line station to Production Way-SFU to have a consistent naming scheme.

Didn't I read somewhere that once the Evergreen line is up and running that the Burquitlam station will become the primary transfer point to SFU?

[Ehlun]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Didn't I read somewhere that once the Evergreen line is up and running that the Burquitlam station will become the primary transfer point to SFU?

That is correct.

[Zassk]

I hope that the final line will have two stations at UBC. If the line curved slightly south through Acadia rather than north along University Blvd, then it would be possible to have a station close to Wesbrook Village and the Thunderbird complex before continuing to the terminus at University & Wesbrook Mall. This extra station would also give service to the proposed Musqueam development.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Update:

I guess this is because trains running to Sapperton, Braid, and Lougheed from Waterfront will return the way they came? If I'm not mistaken, Lougheed is being modified as a western terminus for Millennium Line trains, with Evergreen Line trains continuing on to VCC-Clark via Lougheed.

The branding will therefore follow the routing, even though Millennium Line will diverge from Expo at only three stations.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

I'd guess it may have to do with the tunnel possibly being able to be constructed for a higher speed standard. The Mk II design in use at the JFK AirTrain cruises at closer to 100km/h than our SkyTrain's 80. Mk III (Innovia 300) trains will probably be capable of the same, and then the rest is up to the ROW and the operator's preferences.

the speed of a train in a tunnels also limited by how much air the train has to push out of the way ahead of it (and pull air in after it) as it is travelling. In a tunnel, the wind can only be pushed/pulled along the length of the tunnel, and not through the sides of the tunnel. You don't want people on the platforms to be -literally- blown away by a hurricane-force wind of the incoming train that is being pushed ahead of it and into the station.

with the Canada Line, you can usually know a train is arriving because of the (gentle) wind blowing though the ticket-hall.

The JFK AirTrain can cruise at higher speeds because it is _outside_ in the middle of the freeway. Air in front and around the train can easily be pushed out of the way because there are no walls surrounding the tracks. The knee-high walls supporting the power rails &tc aren't an issue because of the air turbulence from the under-carriage of the train itself.


Some of the exotic theoretical super-high speed trains are essentially sealed and pressurized tubes (like airplanes) so the tunnels can have a partial vacuum to reduce the amount of air the train has to push against. Another theoretical high-speed train would also use sealed passenger cabins so they can have the tunnels filled with low-pressure helium or nitrogen which (in theory) would allow the trains can be run hyper-sonic (ie: New York to L.A. in a hour)

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by huenthar

Well, the distance that had always been given (13 km) divided by the average operating speed of the existing Skytrain lines (45 km/h) gives 17 min, so I don't know why they would have thought it would be slower before.

Aren't you forgetting the extra time needed to stop at a station for the passengers to use the train?
This adds 30 to 60 seconds per station, so the operating speed between stations will have to be higher.
and also we need to include the acceleration and deceleration factors during the time between stations.

[xd_1771]

What I'm thinking is that the problem could be eliminated with platform screen doors

[madog222]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Aren't you forgetting the extra time needed to stop at a station for the passengers to use the train?
This adds 30 to 60 seconds per station, so the operating speed between stations will have to be higher.
and also we need to include the acceleration and deceleration factors during the time between stations.

45km/h is the average speed including stops, 29km over 39min for the Expo Line gives 44.6km/h.

[amor de cosmos]

Vancouver mayor wants UBC subway line considered of ‘national significance’
Getting federal money for the $3-billion line unlikely without such a designation, Robertson says
By Peter O'Neil, Vancouver Sun February 26, 2014

OTTAWA — The Harper government needs to be convinced that the proposed $3-billion Broadway subway line to the University of B.C. is a project of “national significance,” Mayor Gregor Robertson said Wednesday.

Robertson, who was chairing a meeting of big-city mayors here, said a $14-billion, 10-year fund being promoted by the Conservative government is “woefully inadequate” to meet Canada’s infrastructure needs.

That program has only set aside $9 billion specifically for big cities, with $1 billion earmarked for smaller and typically more Tory-friendly municipalities.

Another $4 billion is targeted for projects of national strategic significance.

Asked if there is enough federal money on the table to get the Broadway project off the ground, Robertson replied: “That depends on whether the additional $4 billion of national infrastructure money is on the table.”

Cities, provincial governments and Ottawa typically cost-share major infrastructure projects.

Robertson said Vancouver will make the case to Ottawa that all Canadians would benefit from the subway.

Linking UBC to major health sciences institutions along the corridor, including the Vancouver General Hospital and the BC Centre for Disease Control, would advance Vancouver’s ability to become a global research hub.

“We will see companies from all over the world coming to Vancouver if there’s good connectivity,” he said in an interview. “The cities we compete with globally in technology are well-connected and are invested in rapid transit, and we need to keep pace. So it will have a nationally significant economic impact.”

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Vancouv...e+considered+national/9555121/story.html

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

What I'm thinking is that the problem could be eliminated with platform screen doors

so now the air can only escape at the ends of the tunnels -- UBC and Great Northern Way.

[rsxstock]

Originally Posted by amor de cosmos

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Vancouv...e+considered+national/9555121/story.html

I can go with that... there's been tremendous along great northern way and ov alone and room for much more

[Joat]

I'm not a big fan of Gregor but I'm glad hes pushing so hard for the Broadway line. Not sure if this designation will make much of a difference. Id hope Trudeau would be pretty supportive if he wins, but I cant wait that long!

[dleung]

Not sure if of national significance, but it's definitely the most worthwhile rapid transit project in Canada, ahead of many projects that have already been built.