Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by logan5

Curious as to why you think the provincial government would prefer bridges over skytrain expansion.

Umm... based on their track record? They seem to have no problem pulling money out of a hat to fund roads and bridges, but are nickel and timing Translink to death. The Broadway corridor has more transit ridership than there are cars going across the Port Mann bridge, but look at where the money went...

[logan5]

Fair enough. I don't follow politics all that closely. I can only hope the importance of Broadway rapid transit is universal amongst all political parties.

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Umm... based on their track record? They seem to have no problem pulling money out of a hat to fund roads and bridges, but are nickel and timing Translink to death. The Broadway corridor has more transit ridership than there are cars going across the Port Mann bridge, but look at where the money went...

Roads and bridges serve the Port Authority, transit doesn't.

[GMasterAres]

Yah they can use a smaller boring machine because the current SkyTrain trains are smaller than the Canada Lines trains. That said, has it been officially decided if the will just continue from VCC or they will split the lines so Millennium stops at VCC and then "new line" starts there physically?

If it is just a continuation, then the line is already named and will be Millennium line to UBC instead of Millennium line to VCC/Clark. AKA, Millennium Line. Unless they rename the whole line once the extension is completed.

[Ehlun]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Yah they can use a smaller boring machine because the current SkyTrain trains are smaller than the Canada Lines trains. That said, has it been officially decided if the will just continue from VCC or they will split the lines so Millennium stops at VCC and then "new line" starts there physically?

If it is just a continuation, then the line is already named and will be Millennium line to UBC instead of Millennium line to VCC/Clark. AKA, Millennium Line. Unless they rename the whole line once the extension is completed.

It will continue from VCC-Clark. Makes no sense for it to stop...

I think it would be the Evergreen Line to UBC.

The Millennium Line segment will be shortened to Waterfront to Lougheed Town Centre when the Evergreen Line opens. Thus the entire VCC-Clark to Lafarge Lake-Douglas will be known as the Evergreen Line.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Meraki

Roads and bridges serve the Port Authority, transit doesn't.

Agreed - roads and bridges have broader appeal to wider variety of users.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Ehlun

It will continue from VCC-Clark. Makes no sense for it to stop...

I think it would be the Evergreen Line to UBC.

The Millennium Line segment will be shortened to Waterfront to Lougheed Town Centre when the Evergreen Line opens. Thus the entire VCC-Clark to Lafarge Lake-Douglas will be known as the Evergreen Line.

According to the Evergreen docs, when the extension is finished the entire line from VCC-Clark through Lougheed to Lafarge Lake-Douglas will become "The Millennium Line".

The existing Expo line from Waterfront to King George will not be changed, so those trains will still be Expo line trains "to King George" terminal or "to Waterfront" terminal.

The trains from Waterfront to Lougheed (via New Westminster and Braid) will become Expo line trains "to Lougheed" terminal or "to Waterfront" terminal. Expo trains will not run west of Lougheed in regular passenger service.

Therefore the Expo line and Millennium line will run as separate and independent lines, with only Lougheed and Commercial/Broadway stations being the interchange points for passengers between the two lines.

Lougheed is the interchange point for trains, so access to/from the Edmonds maintenance centre can be made by trains on either the Expo or Millennium lines.

When The "Broadway-UBC" extension is built west of VCC-Clark, it too will be part of the "The Millennium Line" when it opens.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Agreed - roads and bridges have broader appeal to wider variety of users.

Again: there are more people riding buses along the Broadway corridor every day than there are cars crossing the Port Mann bridge. If the volumes on the Port Mann bridge make it deserving of infrastructure investment then why not the Broadway corridor?

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by andasen

Cause when given the choice between replacing a well utilized and critical piece of infrastructure which is at the end of its life cycle and expanding a second infrastructure system, good governance and common sense dictates that you spend money keeping your existing infrastructure first. Note, justifying funds in excess of that which is required to maintain capacity is where you can start see the funding favouring transit more.

Yes, it makes a lot of sense to fund under-performing upgrades like the Port Mann rather than over-performing transit investments like Canada Line... Common sense, naturally!

What we have here is INERTIA, DENIAL, and STATUS QUO, rather than common sense.

In many ways, it is also an argument based upon class. Those who choose to drive often "perceive" themselves to be of a higher socioeconomic level, and therefore deserving of greater priority. Let the plebes crowd onto their trains and buses, give me my unfettered road access!

[s211]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Again: there are more people riding buses along the Broadway corridor every day than there are cars crossing the Port Mann bridge. If the volumes on the Port Mann bridge make it deserving of infrastructure investment then why not the Broadway corridor?

Yak yak yak.

Since when does car = person. You do realize that cars carry more than one person, and actually do so, right? Seriously...

[nname]

Originally Posted by s211

Yak yak yak.

Since when does car = person. You do realize that cars carry more than one person, and actually do so, right? Seriously...

According to the 2008 survey, each car = 1.24 person on Port Mann.

[dreambrother808]

Yet the Port Mann's expansion was funded handily by the province while the Broadway Line hangs in the balance, just like the planet's climate/future... Why is it common sense to hide your head in the ground?

I wasn't even against the HWY1/PM expansion, but when you see this kind of hypocrisy, it's infuriating.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by s211

You do realize that cars carry more than one person, and actually do so, right? Seriously...

Not the vast majority of them...

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Yet the Port Mann's expansion was funded handily by the province while the Broadway Line hangs in the balance, just like the planet's climate/future... Why is it common sense to hide your head in the ground?

lol @ the part in bold

[dreambrother808]

Yeah it's funny to the kind of person who is too simple-minded to believe in science.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Again: there are more people riding buses along the Broadway corridor every day than there are cars crossing the Port Mann bridge. If the volumes on the Port Mann bridge make it deserving of infrastructure investment then why not the Broadway corridor?

"wider variety of users" means businesses, service workers, truckers, commuters, tourists, soccer moms, students, transit riders, etc.

What percentage of the general population rides transit regularly?

Is it more or less than the percentage that uses roads and bridges (including transit use of roads and bridges?)?

POLITICS caters to the majority vote.

The majority vote isn't always what's best for society or the environment.

[dreambrother808]

Yes, we understand POLITICS.

I don't believe anyone is failing to understand why this hypocrisy is occurring.

It still stands that a similar percentage of the overall population crosses the PM as uses transit on the Broadway corridor, while the two have been treated quite differently. This decision plays to the political sympathies of the overall population, the majority of whom are quite addicted to car use in spite of its consequences. And yes, I am fully aware that for some people using transit or other modes of transportation is not an option. Nevertheless, I am certain that some who consider themselves to be part of this "some" could actually be better served by transit, either through current or future investments.

[officedweller]

I know, I just commented again because he's sort of just flogging a dead horse.

(i.e. you can also get blue in the face asking how people can't or can't be bothered to figure out what's recyclable and what isn't)

[Hot Rod]

So there really isn't an Evergreen Line? We will still only have 3 lines?

I do like the idea of Splitting the lines and having discrete transfers - its so big city subway feeling; but I don't particularly like there being two Expo Lines. I suppose it could grow on me but isn't that confusing? I like discrete terminals with discrete transfer points but that's just me.

I think the Massey Tunnel should have had priority over the Port Mann myself. Hopefully we can have both.

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

So there really isn't an Evergreen Line? We will still only have 3 lines?.

As far as has been announced so far, there will be 4 lines.

Expo Line: Waterfront-King George
Millennium Line: Waterfront-Lougheed
Evergreen Line: VCC-Clark-Lafarge Lake-Douglas
Canada Line: Waterfront-YVR/Richmond-Brighouse