Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction - Page 288

MIPS · #**5741** Posted **Feb 23, 2014, 11:58 PM**

I really hope it is some real logistical reason why they are deciding on the name change because from a taxpayer's perspective it makes no sense to blow that much money.

deasine · #**5742** Posted **Feb 24, 2014, 3:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbertram

According to the Evergreen docs, when the extension is finished the entire line from VCC-Clark through Lougheed to Lafarge Lake-Douglas will become "The Millennium Line".

The existing Expo line from Waterfront to King George will not be changed, so those trains will still be Expo line trains "to King George" terminal or "to Waterfront" terminal.

The trains from Waterfront to Lougheed (via New Westminster and Braid) will become Expo line trains "to Lougheed" terminal or "to Waterfront" terminal. Expo trains will not run west of Lougheed in regular passenger service.

Therefore the Expo line and Millennium line will run as separate and independent lines, with only Lougheed and Commercial/Broadway stations being the interchange points for passengers between the two lines.

Lougheed is the interchange point for trains, so access to/from the Edmonds maintenance centre can be made by trains on either the Expo or Millennium lines.

When The "Broadway-UBC" extension is built west of VCC-Clark, it too will be part of the "The Millennium Line" when it opens.

Actually does anyone have a link to the document handy? I was trying to search for it but I guess I'm not inputting the correct keywords.

Jebby · #**5743** Posted **Feb 24, 2014, 3:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zassk

Agreed, and I think the whole system would be easier for occasional riders to understand if the Canada Line was called two lines - e.g. Airport Line (Waterfront to YVR) and Canada Line (Waterfront to Brighouse).

If someone can't figure out what train they need to take on the Canada Line they probably shouldn't have the legal capacity to manage their own finances or be allowed to have children.

I'd love to see those people take the District Line in London...

or the Northern Line...

Ehlun · #**5744** Posted **Feb 24, 2014, 5:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by deasine

Actually does anyone have a link to the document handy? I was trying to search for it but I guess I'm not inputting the correct keywords.

There is a document, but it's blacked out. Everything that's out about the final operation pattern/naming is all speculation.

officedweller · #**5745** Posted **Feb 24, 2014, 11:20 PM**

It does make some sense though - since the "Evergreen" line name was really created for the LRT version, so at the time, it really was a separate line from Millennium Line. Now, it's back to being an extension.

GlassCity · #**5746** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 1:24 AM**

Is there any speculation on the routing of a Broadway Line? I guess logically you'd continue from VCC-Clark above Great Northern Way until going south on Main Street, but that way you miss a pretty big part of East Broadway, probably 2 stations at Clark and Fraser. Any of you have any ideas on what you'd do?

rsxstock · #**5747** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 2:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Is there any speculation on the routing of a Broadway Line? I guess logically you'd continue from VCC-Clark above Great Northern Way until going south on Main Street, but that way you miss a pretty big part of East Broadway, probably 2 stations at Clark and Fraser. Any of you have any ideas on what you'd do?

there's really not much at clark and fraser to put a station for, the buses can cover that area no problem. logically, they should go south east to kingsgate mall and then west along broadway

MIPS · #**5748** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 3:22 AM**

Off the top of my head I can think of three ways but they all have their cons.

IDEA 1

Expand the switch east of Commercial/ Broadway and directly tunnel under the road. The obvious downside however is no direct connection to one of the busiest stations in the system.

IDEA 2

Add a switch and tunnel entrance west of Commercial/Broadway. This eliminates any logistical nightmares regarding trains having to reverse into the platform like with the previous idea. The downside however is what to do with the remaining stub of a line down to VCC/Clark. It sees enough activity you can't just abandon it.

IDEA 3

After the existing switches you have several hundred meters to get the tracks below ground so they can navigate under the road and then make their way to Broadway.
IF that apartment block on the hill was not there you could just run the guideway over the road and put the tunnel entrance there but just buying out and demolishing the place would cost a fortune and you can't travel much more west because you then have to deal with the rail yard and no viable places to even dig under the road.

idunno · #**5749** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 3:31 AM**

I think it's fairly well understood that the line will likely be similar to your third idea, MIPS. The designs for the Emily Carr Campus show a specific alignment like that, and even a proposed station box.

GlassCity · #**5750** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 3:31 AM**

Third one seems to make the most sense because the first two seem to have problems that are just too extreme.

gkz · #**5751** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 3:46 AM**

MIPS, reposting an image I posted a bit ago in this thread:

http://former.vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20140204/documents/p1.pdf

overall:

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/document...tudy_alternatives_analysis_findings.ashx

dpogue · #**5752** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 3:55 AM**

The plan (or the one that I keep seeing referred to in documents) is for the Millennium line to continue from VCC-Clark along the edge of the rail yards, entering a tunnel around Fraser St, then turning for a station at Thornton St & Great Northern Way before heading up towards Main & Broadway.

With Emily Carr University moving their entire campus to Great Northern Way & Carolina St, it makes sense for a station there.

MIPS · #**5753** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 4:40 AM**

Wow, how did I miss that PDF?
Okay, so they have the exact same idea as well for that block of land.

dleung · #**5754** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 5:42 AM**

I posted this in 2009:

Mac Write · #**5755** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 9:25 AM**

What will the travel time be from Langfar > UBC? Can't wait to see the 50 minute Waterfront > VCC-clark record broken.

nname · #**5756** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 9:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Write

What will the travel time be from Langfar > UBC? Can't wait to see the 50 minute Waterfront > VCC-clark record broken.

Lafarge -> Lougheed = 15min
Lougheed -> Broadway = 18min
Broadway -> UBC = 19min
Total: 52min

Currently
Waterfront -> Columbia = 30min
Columbia -> VCC = 27min
Total: 57min

The current Millennium Line is still longer. The only possible way to break it is to have Expo Line extend to Langley. That would be exactly 60min end-to-end.

deasine · #**5757** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ehlun

There is a document, but it's blacked out. Everything that's out about the final operation pattern/naming is all speculation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

It does make some sense though - since the "Evergreen" line name was really created for the LRT version, so at the time, it really was a separate line from Millennium Line. Now, it's back to being an extension.

Am I thinking of a different document. I remember there was a document that proposed different services something like:

Option 1: Waterfront-King George, Waterfront-VCC, VCC-Lafarge
Option 2: Waterfront-King George, Waterfront-Lougheed, VCC-Lafarge
Option 3: Waterfront-King George, Columbia-Lougheed, VCC-Lafarge

Does anyone have the link to said document above available?

logan5 · #**5758** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 6:36 PM**

Originally the travel time from Commercial to UBC was 20 minutes for RRT. Then, I think the RRT time dropped to 19 minutes This document now says the travel time for RRT, Commercial to UBC is 17 minutes. I'm not sure if they are subtracting stations as they go along, but the travel times change periodically, or maybe there are a few different documents floating around.

officedweller · #**5759** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 7:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Is there any speculation on the routing of a Broadway Line? I guess logically you'd continue from VCC-Clark above Great Northern Way until going south on Main Street, but that way you miss a pretty big part of East Broadway, probably 2 stations at Clark and Fraser. Any of you have any ideas on what you'd do?

Just as a historical note -
The original allignment for the M-Line was to be under Broadway, probably like MIPS first drawing.

However, at the time the City of Vancouver was keen on developing the Finning Lands (GNW Campus) as high tech space (as well as lands in the Grandview corridor) and the station could still serve the VCC campus from the north (esp. as it expands to the north) - so the allignment was diverted to the north. The QLT Building was the first among many expected.

In addition, there were potential issues with tunnelling under Broadway because of soft soils near the buried China Creek. There would also have been a large open excavation pit blocking Broadway for years while an underground station was constructed.

The development of the Finning Lands didn't quite pan out and the lands were donated to the Universities.

officedweller · #**5760** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 7:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by deasine

Am I thinking of a different document. I remember there was a document that proposed different services something like:

Option 1: Waterfront-King George, Waterfront-VCC, VCC-Lafarge
Option 2: Waterfront-King George, Waterfront-Lougheed, VCC-Lafarge
Option 3: Waterfront-King George, Columbia-Lougheed, VCC-Lafarge

Does anyone have the link to said document above available?

It's no longer on-line as it was a background document for an RFP.