Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[utenation]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Every time Outdoor Retailers comes to town actually, and many other times when I'm out at a bar or club to have a drink and I talk to someone from out of town. A large number of them say something along the lines of "I always heard it was nearly impossible to get a drink here, I'm not sure what those people are talking about because there are a lot of good options"

I never said it wasn't difficult to open a business that serves alcohol, with the current regulations, I was simply saying there there are a good number of options around. I'm all for loosening the regulations and letting the market decide how many bars and clubs the city can support. My argument was against the "The scene here is horrible" attitude.

I don't think the scene is horrible. And I agree that there are the extreme stereotypes from out of town that think everyone is walking around with prarie dresses, a book of Mormon in hand and 6 wives.. I constantly have to squash those ideas with folks.

My point is, as SLC becomes more diverse and less LDS, the politics need to change along with it. There are many layers involved to getting there but I think many people agree(including LDS folks) there is a big problem and the road to change is discussion and open minds.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by utenation

I don't think the scene is horrible. And I agree that there are the extreme stereotypes from out of town that think everyone is walking around with prarie dresses, a book of Mormon in hand and 6 wives.. I constantly have to squash those ideas with folks.

My point is, as SLC becomes more diverse and less LDS, the politics need to change along with it. There are many layers involved to getting there but I think many people agree(including LDS folks) there is a big problem and the road to change is discussion and open minds.

Those things we both agree on. Stereotypes and rumors are hard to get rid of no matter how false they may be. Case in point, when I lived in Cleveland, more than half the people I would meet, when they found out I was from Utah, would honestly ask me how many wives my dad had, so I would simply reply with "How poor is your dad?" They would react all butt hurt and be offended, and I would simply respond "oh, well that's what the stereo type is, that everyone in Cleveland is poor."

I guess the point I am making is that due to Salt Lake being the home of the LDS church no matter how many bars and clubs we have there will always be a percentage of the population that has never visited, that will think you can't get a drink here.

While yes it's not as convenient as some larger cities, I have noticed that most people that visit for the first time are pleasantly surprised by the variety of choices.

One interesting note on the polygamy stereotype, not a single one of my classmates in my Masters Program asked how many wives my dad had, I was always people that I met outside of school that would ask.

[Makid]

I would like to see the current number of bars north of 4th South on Main stay static while increasing them along 2nd South. Particularly between Main and 3rd West.

I think that would do a lot to help foot traffic in the area. It would also help convention attendees to know where they can get a quick drink.

For this to happen though, I think we will need to see more development along 2nd South but at least 1 should be able to open in the area without sacrificing any of the existing bars. Maybe include it in with the CCH and provide street access.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Makid

I would like to see the current number of bars north of 4th South on Main stay static while increasing them along 2nd South. Particularly between Main and 3rd West.

I think that would do a lot to help foot traffic in the area. It would also help convention attendees to know where they can get a quick drink.

For this to happen though, I think we will need to see more development along 2nd South but at least 1 should be able to open in the area without sacrificing any of the existing bars. Maybe include it in with the CCH and provide street access.

I agree, I think at least one more between Main and W. Temple on 2nd S would be ideal that would make two on that block. Although there aren't a lot of options for places to put one in, maybe on the ground floor of that lame building on the NE corner of W. Temple and 2nd.
The same issue arises between W. Temple and 200 W. there aren't a lot of store fronts on that block, and two of them are already occupied by clubs.

I would like to see something like the W Hotel be built as the CCH, on the RWP site of course, and I'd love to see a bar on the ground floor as well as a club near the top, with a balcony.

[utenation]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Those things we both agree on. Stereotypes and rumors are hard to get rid of no matter how false they may be. Case in point, when I lived in Cleveland, more than half the people I would meet, when they found out I was from Utah, would honestly ask me how many wives my dad had, so I would simply reply with "How poor is your dad?" They would react all butt hurt and be offended, and I would simply respond "oh, well that's what the stereo type is, that everyone in Cleveland is poor."

I guess the point I am making is that due to Salt Lake being the home of the LDS church no matter how many bars and clubs we have there will always be a percentage of the population that has never visited, that will think you can't get a drink here.

While yes it's not as convenient as some larger cities, I have noticed that most people that visit for the first time are pleasantly surprised by the variety of choices.

One interesting note on the polygamy stereotype, not a single one of my classmates in my Masters Program asked how many wives my dad had, I was always people that I met outside of school that would ask.

I think a key point you made was letting the market dictate the development, not polticians with their head in the sand speaking for everyone.

[delts145]

I guess the Air 7 will add another great option for the night life scene, or at least that seems to be the goal. It's being touted as a world class venue. Also, the UPAC with long running productions will do a lot to create more options, not to mention the CCH. I guess it's just a matter of being patient, but at least Downtown seems to be changing a much quicker pace, and for the better.

[Stenar]

Beer bars could open in SLC without a liquor license. Such as the Bayou, Brewvies, etc.

Originally Posted by brankrom

The number of bars allowed is a moot point until the state starts milling some more permits. Besides its more than just bars, restaurants need to have liquor licenses too, this state's aversion to alcohol is downright nutty. I'm a very occasional imbiber and I know the apologist Utahn on the chamber of commerce will try to dispel the myth that its hard to get a drink in Zion. It's not hard to get a drink in Zion, just harder than it needs to be. Onerous regulation and thought policing and the stupid rules of having to order food and added expense of Zion's Curtain is all nonsense. Downtown SLC should be far more vibrant and occupied (and perhaps its coming... eventually... someday... maybe) but there is definite something that is affecting downtown. Similar size cities all have more going on. Even Boise has a more vibrant downtown community with small businesses, sure its a larger city population wise, but SLC could be so much more.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

when they found out I was from Utah, would honestly ask me how many wives my dad had, so I would simply reply with "How poor is your dad?" They would react all butt hurt and be offended, and I would simply respond "oh, well that's what the stereo type is, that everyone in Cleveland is poor."

Oh nice. I'll have to remember that one. My usual comeback, when they ask how many wives I have, is "3...but we're looking for #4, if you're interested..."

It is interesting that the higher the level of education, the more stereotypes seem to break down. Maybe increased travel plus knowledge?

We need to get more people here and get them completely drunk. (I was going to say shitfaced, but I didn't know if I could use that word here.) That would help bust the stereotype.

[Stenar]

I just emailed the marketing director of Grand America and she told me it was only 249' tall. That's so far off, that I'm not sure she's including the cupola and/or flagpole. I emailed her back to clarify.

Originally Posted by Skystruck

According to Wikipedia it is 395' but then says in the description that it's 330' to the top of the flag pole. They list it as the 12th tallest building in SLC. Adding to the confusion they list 222 as the 11th tallest at 315'. I have now seen it listed at 330' to the top of the flag pole from two different sources so I assume that is the correct number. If you don't count the flag pole which in my opinion shouldn't really count then it probably does come in just under 222 as the 12th tallest. If you look at the link Wikipedia does make a few mistakes on their list and I think it can be safely assumed that listing the Grand at 395' is one of them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Salt_Lake_City

[Stenar]

I was in favor of the building being torn down, but I do feel a twinge of sadness actually seeing it being demolished. [QUOTE=Plaid Shirts;6468006]
I always liked the Bennion building. It's a shame that it's just about gone. I was hoping they would add a skyrise on top of the building, like the Hearst Building in NYC.

[Skystruck]

Originally Posted by Stenar

I just emailed the marketing director of Grand America and she told me it was only 249' tall. That's so far off, that I'm not sure she's including the cupola and/or flagpole. I emailed her back to clarify.

Thanks that's some interesting info but like you I'm still a bit confused lol! Just take the Marriott as an example, on Wikipedia its listed at 263' with only 16 floors. Now the marketing director for the Grand America is saying 249' and it has 24 floors.

[utenation]

Originally Posted by Skystruck

Thanks that's some interesting info but like you I'm still a bit confused lol! Just take the Marriott as an example, on Wikipedia its listed at 263' with only 16 floors. Now the marketing director for the Grand America is saying 249' and it has 24 floors.

Just using the eye test in a few different pics with different angles, it looks to be about the same height at the two American Tower condos..

There is no way that building is 395'.. Either way, we need to get the diagram page updated. Look at Portland for example, they seem to have every downtown building on there and some are very small..

I think we're missing about 20-25 buildings..

[Skystruck]

Originally Posted by utenation

Just using the eye test in a few different pics with different angles, it looks to be about the same height at the two American Tower condos..

There is no way that building is 395'.. Either way, we need to get the diagram page updated. Look at Portland for example, they seem to have every downtown building on there and some are very small..

I think we're missing about 20-25 buildings..

The American condo towers are 324' so 330' to the top of the flag pole may very well be right for the Grand.

Agreed on the diagram, there are a lot of buildings still missing. (Just looked at Portland's diagram and you are right, they have buildings listed all the way down to 100')

[s.p.hansen]

Seeing the demolition of the buildings where the UPAC is gonna be got me all nostalgic about this place.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

Seeing the demolition of the buildings where the UPAC is gonna be got me all nostalgic about this place.

Come back.

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by jedikermit

Come back.

I am going to miss the Bennion building. I liked it.

[SLC Projects]

Let's just all agree on 330FT then for the Grand and call it good so H4vok can get the drawing added to the diagram.

[DCRes]

Wikipedia also lists the American Tower buildings as 324' and 222 Main at 315'. There is no way that 222 is shorter than American Towers. I know a lot of building heights look different than they appear because they may be on taller or shorter ground, but these building are on the same block and 222 looks significantly taller to me than American Towers. Do you guys agree with me or am I crazy?

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by DCRes

Wikipedia also lists the American Tower buildings as 324' and 222 Main at 315'. There is no way that 222 is shorter than American Towers. I know a lot of building heights look different than they appear because they may be on taller or shorter ground, but these building are on the same block and 222 looks significantly taller to me than American Towers. Do you guys agree with me or am I crazy?

Just eyeballing it from a corner office in One Utah I'd say 324' and 315' is about right American Towers/ Wells Fargo is a bit taller.

[Stenar]

I think one of the main reasons why the legislature is 90% Mormon is because so few people vote in Utah.

In the early '90s, Utah had the highest voter turnout in the nation, usually in the 80th percentile, sometimes high 80s.

In 2012, Utah's voter turnout was 53%, and that included Mitt Romney on the ballot.

I know a lot of people who never vote because they don't think it will change anything. But I think it really would.

Originally Posted by utenation

Exactly... The dominant religion in this state becomes less dominant each day, yet the majority iron fist party of this state are well rooted like oak trees...
There has been a little progress but there is much holding SLC back right now.

The new proposed Zion Curtain Alcohol bill fell down like a led balloon. Not shocked.