Port Mann/Highway 1 Improvements | Completed

[TransitJack]

Thanks guys. That clarifies it for me. The weaving traffic may not be a conflict, and definitely is indicative of anything labeled "Cape Horn", but I'm surprised with all the overpasses and money spent on this section of the project that this weaving nature couldn't have been overcome/eliminated.


The east side of PMB also has what I think is an oversight:
On the east side of PMB, the 1 HOV - 2 Through express lanes prior to 152nd exit seems like it was under built. There is no additional capacity than existed prior to the project. I'm surprised they did not accommodate 3 general purpose lanes plus 1 HOV instead of just 2. I've already experienced a big slow down hesding up Johnson Hill with the outside lane being clogged with slow 18-wheelers, the fast lane slowed with smaller trucks trying to pass and an HOV lane that one may not qualify to use. At least before the HOV became general purpose up the hill and you weren't slowed by truck traffic. Has anyone else experienced this?

[Infrequent Poster]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Just as an exercise, I looked at the cams just now during the tail end of rush hour where traffic in all lanes starts to spread and while the HOV lane is still in effect. Took a look at cameras along the stretch from Grandview all the way to PMB, and counting cars generally the HOV lane was very near in the snapshots the general traffic. For example around Kensington, EB I count 12 cars in the HOV, 10 in the general lane beside, and 5 in the other general lane. WB I count 2 HOV, 15 next general, and 9 in the other general. So in that case, WB (against general traffic direction) HOV is used less.

Then clicked Burnaby EB cam and count 7 cars HOV, 8 general 1, 4 general 1 eastbound, westbound I count 6 HOV, 6 general 1, 3 general 2.

Then click Port Mann up the hill towards Surrey: 6 HOV, 0 general 1, 3 general 2, 5 exit 152nd. Westbound, 2 HOV coming down hill, 3 general 1, 3 general 2.

So I dunno. Again if you look during rush hour you will see a spread but on a non-live webcam, you miss the key "speed" factor and the fact that cars in HOV are moving, cars in general lanes are barely so they stack up creating the illusion of more cars when the truth is the HOV lane could still very well be carrying far more traffic beyond the same point in the same time.

Again I'll wait until I see statistics because the webcams just really to me don't tell the whole story. They mainly seem to be backing my claims but sometimes they refresh and there is 1 car in the HOV and 8 in the general traffic 1 and 2 so then it contradicts meaning the collection method is flawed.

So after a bit of searching I finally found some stats http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications/reports_and_studies/hovsummary/summary.htm keep in mind this is quite old (like 1999 old) but it is still info for the highway with 2 general purpose lanes and 1 hov in each direction.

This was the stat that jumped out at me "The overall peak direction High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) versus Single Occupant Vehicle (SOV) split is between 25% to 30% HOV and 70% to 75% SOV." Now these numbers may have gone up or down a bit since 1999, so take them as you will, just thought you might be interested in some real numbers instead of anecdotal evidence.

I wish I could find some more current stats

[Mousey]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Ultimately, it depends on whether the ramps are called a collector system or not. I don't think they will be - so if it's called an exit to Lougheed Hwy - that's its primary purpose, with the ability to get back to TCH.



That's because of volume. Cars flood into the express lanes, and when volume peaks, there's nowhere for them to go. On the collectors, you have traffic coming in and out. Sometimes, on a regular freeway (like I-5) the "slow" lanes move faster than the "fast" lanes.

I could not agree with this statement more. Had a fun experience getting from the Seattle Woodland Zoo-Tacoma in the middle of the pm rush hour last Thursday. Took 99/509 to 188th. A brutally slow stretch until the 509. Got on at I5 at 188th. It is 7 lanes wide SB at that point. All 7 backed up. I had never seen that before. Stupid me, weaved my way over to the HOV lane, HOV was just as heavy as the other lanes. Only lane that seemed to move was the farthest right lane. Most of the stretch is 5-6 lanes wide. It was extreme stop and go traffic for 7 miles. It eased for a few miles, and then more stop and go traffic. I don't think I will ever complain about Vancouver again. That stretch of highway is 14 lanes combined at a select few points, and both directions in rush hour are moderate to heavy in all lanes... There was an accident on the 99 as well going the other way just before the viaduct. It was bascially 5 lanes merging into one, and backed up for 4 miles. Just awful traffic. But each time, the right lane moved faster than every single other lane.

[East Van]

Wider freeways = Faster operational speed = Higher chances of messy accidents = Future of Hwy 1...

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Mousey

I could not agree with this statement more. Had a fun experience getting from the Seattle Woodland Zoo-Tacoma in the middle of the pm rush hour last Thursday. Took 99/509 to 188th. A brutally slow stretch until the 509. Got on at I5 at 188th. It is 7 lanes wide SB at that point. All 7 backed up. I had never seen that before. Stupid me, weaved my way over to the HOV lane, HOV was just as heavy as the other lanes. Only lane that seemed to move was the farthest right lane. Most of the stretch is 5-6 lanes wide. It was extreme stop and go traffic for 7 miles. It eased for a few miles, and then more stop and go traffic. I don't think I will ever complain about Vancouver again. That stretch of highway is 14 lanes combined at a select few points, and both directions in rush hour are moderate to heavy in all lanes... There was an accident on the 99 as well going the other way just before the viaduct. It was bascially 5 lanes merging into one, and backed up for 4 miles. Just awful traffic. But each time, the right lane moved faster than every single other lane.

Drove to Oregon last Friday and traffic was brutal. You pretty well have to leave at 9:00 am to avoid any Seattle rush hour - which extends from Seattle all the way to Olympia. I-5 through Fort Lewis-McCord is always jammed up. We avoided part of I-5 by taking I-405 (HOV) through Bellevue then exiting to downtown Renton to access SR167 (avoiding the interchange and also hitting McD's), SR 167 (HOT) and then SR512 re-entering I-5 just north of Fort Lewis-McCord. The HOT on SR167 ends partway and it was stop and go on SR167 - including the exit to SR512. Alternatively you can take SR167 to its end and take surface roads through Puyallup and re-enter I-5 just north of Tacoma Dome. Didn't take SR18 back to I-5 from SR167 because we figured I-5 would be jammed that far north.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Infrequent Poster

So after a bit of searching I finally found some stats http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications/reports_and_studies/hovsummary/summary.htm keep in mind this is quite old (like 1999 old) but it is still info for the highway with 2 general purpose lanes and 1 hov in each direction.

This was the stat that jumped out at me "The overall peak direction High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) versus Single Occupant Vehicle (SOV) split is between 25% to 30% HOV and 70% to 75% SOV." Now these numbers may have gone up or down a bit since 1999, so take them as you will, just thought you might be interested in some real numbers instead of anecdotal evidence.

I wish I could find some more current stats

I don't think counting the number of vehicles in each lane is really the proper thing to do. The best scenario would be to count the number of people travelling in each lane. Of course that statistic will never exist.

A vehicle in the HOV lane must have at least 2 people. So on a base line if there are a 1000 vehicles/hour. Then at least 2000 people/hour used that lane. For a SOV to move that many people it would require 2000 vehicles/hour. This would make it look like the SOV is twice as busy. When in reality both are moving the same number of people.

Of course this is only a simple over view. There are tons of variables like the number of people in and HOV. Plus not all vehicles in the general purpose lanes are SOV.

[go_leafs_go02]

Remember how Carvolth exchange was supposed to be a white elephant?

The park and ride - it's full. 100% full. Cars parked in the furthest corners possible. It is free to park still, but the 555 has been a HUGE success.

[Tfreder]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Remember how Carvolth exchange was supposed to be a white elephant?

The park and ride - it's full. 100% full. Cars parked in the furthest corners possible. It is free still, but the 555 has been a HUGE success

Yeah, I'm actually pretty shocked that it's at capacity on weekdays already. I checked it out last week when I was in the area, and it was pretty much full at noon. I remember the first time I saw a picture of it and being taken back by how many parking spaces there were; I thought for sure translink had overbuilt it.

Slightly related, when I took the 555 there was this man bragging that translink had bought those coach buses just for them. He wouldn't believe me when I told him those buses have been in service for about 12 years.

I hope translink will release newer ridership data for the 555. The last figures in march showed 38,000 monthly riders, which is a pretty small number.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Infrequent Poster

So after a bit of searching I finally found some stats http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications/reports_and_studies/hovsummary/summary.htm keep in mind this is quite old (like 1999 old) but it is still info for the highway with 2 general purpose lanes and 1 hov in each direction.

This was the stat that jumped out at me "The overall peak direction High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) versus Single Occupant Vehicle (SOV) split is between 25% to 30% HOV and 70% to 75% SOV." Now these numbers may have gone up or down a bit since 1999, so take them as you will, just thought you might be interested in some real numbers instead of anecdotal evidence.

I wish I could find some more current stats

Interesting. But that would then kind of lean towards my claim (seeing as we're more than 10 years after the fact) that at the time it was near balance. HOV was relatively new in 1999 for HWY1 yet if it is 25-30% share for a single lane and 70-75% share for SOV for 2 lanes that is / 2 so 35% to 37.5% per general lane.

So outset you would have:

25% 37.5% 37.5% or 30% 35% 35% distribution.

Obviously that isn't anywhere near accurate but if you just average out than the lanes clearly were used and quite well imo back in 1999. The question is since then what has changed. Has general traffic increased quicker than HOV traffic? Has HOV traffic stayed the same? Has HOV traffic actually gone down? Did it raise and then is starting to contract.

Tough to say.

Either way I stick with my original notion that the HOV lanes are well used today.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by East Van

Wider freeways = Faster operational speed = Higher chances of messy accidents = Future of Hwy 1...

That's a gross oversimplification.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Tfreder

Yeah, I'm actually pretty shocked that it's at capacity on weekdays already. I checked it out last week when I was in the area, and it was pretty much full at noon. I remember the first time I saw a picture of it and being taken back by how many parking spaces there were; I thought for sure translink had overbuilt it.

Slightly related, when I took the 555 there was this man bragging that translink had bought those coach buses just for them. He wouldn't believe me when I told him those buses have been in service for about 12 years.

I hope translink will release newer ridership data for the 555. The last figures in march showed 38,000 monthly riders, which is a pretty small number.

And people still argue that extending Expo line out to Langley center eventually would be a completely pointless endeavor...

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jhausner

And people still argue that extending Expo line out to Langley center eventually would be a completely pointless endeavor...

The population has always been growing strongly in that area. I don't think that would be pointless, but such a distance might be better served by a commuter rail.

Speaking of pointless endeavours, I sure hope the Evergreen line has some ridership.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Tfreder

Yeah, I'm actually pretty shocked that it's at capacity on weekdays already. I checked it out last week when I was in the area, and it was pretty much full at noon. I remember the first time I saw a picture of it and being taken back by how many parking spaces there were; I thought for sure translink had overbuilt it.

Slightly related, when I took the 555 there was this man bragging that translink had bought those coach buses just for them. He wouldn't believe me when I told him those buses have been in service for about 12 years.

I hope translink will release newer ridership data for the 555. The last figures in march showed 38,000 monthly riders, which is a pretty small number.

Very small sample size, but I rode it (#555) from Langley to connect to Skytrain downtown for Saturday's Whitecaps game. There were several standees on the bus in, and on the return trip seating was utilized 90%. 30 minute weekend frequencies that I think soon will be able to justify an increase in terms of service in the off-peaks.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

The east side of PMB also has what I think is an oversight:
On the east side of PMB, the 1 HOV - 2 Through express lanes prior to 152nd exit seems like it was under built. There is no additional capacity than existed prior to the project. I'm surprised they did not accommodate 3 general purpose lanes plus 1 HOV instead of just 2. I've already experienced a big slow down hesding up Johnson Hill with the outside lane being clogged with slow 18-wheelers, the fast lane slowed with smaller trucks trying to pass and an HOV lane that one may not qualify to use. At least before the HOV became general purpose up the hill and you weren't slowed by truck traffic. Has anyone else experienced this?

The stretch up Johnson Hill is not at its full width. Right now, some volume that will be in the collectors are using the only lanes currently available.

It'll eventually be 1 HOV + 2 express and 2 collector (5 lanes) - before the project, there weren't as many lanes.
You are correct though, in that there won't be many lanes for passing (esp. trucks), as each set of lanes (excluding HOV) will only have 2 lanes. That will, however, have the benefit of preventing cars weaving across 4 lanes to exit at 152nd.

Note that trucks entering the freeway from the United Blvd ramp will only have access to the collector lanes - but I don't know what %age that is of the truck traffic that goes up the hill.

[Metro-One]

I really don't understand this bizzare hate for HOV lanes. I have driven the #1 thousands of times and the HOV lane is always well utalized. In fact it is often at perfect volume, well used but fluid enough to give those using it a faster trip / benefit over general purpose lanes.

Also, the HOV lanes wonderfully double as rapid bus lanes for the 555 and any other new bus routes that may come along.

Seriously, this is just nit picking to the max in order to find any possible excuse to criticize BC highways...

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

I notice also that at 152nd exit, the collector lanes exit to 152, however, there is also a lane that goes under the overpass EB and merges with the main traffic to EB TCH. Is this to accommodate people who ended up in the collector lanes by mistake? and is this where people from EB Lougheed to EB TCH will be encouraged to rejoin the highway?

That lane is designed for trucks getting on the freeway from the special United Blvd on ramp. It goes directly onto the collector lanes on for the bridge. So a truck getting on the freeway from United, bound for points beyond 152, will have to use the collector and use that lane to go through to the main lanes of the TCH after 152.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The population has always been growing strongly in that area. I don't think that would be pointless, but such a distance might be better served by a commuter rail.

Speaking of pointless endeavours, I sure hope the Evergreen line has some ridership.

Yah. Don't want to get off topic but I still hold the opinion we should be encouraging Langley to become a suburb of Surrey instead of another extension of Vancouver. My comment was more on the #555 bus though and how some people on these forums with profile locations 'north of fraser' in transit threads constantly posting that it's just farms out here and nobody would ride transit if it was expanded. 555 proves they are idiots.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

The east side of PMB also has what I think is an oversight:
On the east side of PMB, the 1 HOV - 2 Through express lanes prior to 152nd exit seems like it was under built. There is no additional capacity than existed prior to the project. I'm surprised they did not accommodate 3 general purpose lanes plus 1 HOV instead of just 2. I've already experienced a big slow down hesding up Johnson Hill with the outside lane being clogged with slow 18-wheelers, the fast lane slowed with smaller trucks trying to pass and an HOV lane that one may not qualify to use. At least before the HOV became general purpose up the hill and you weren't slowed by truck traffic. Has anyone else experienced this?

Can't disagree. I think given that specific stretch and hill it would make sense to have an extra "climbing lane" for trucks at least until 160th. They could have made the width and that's largely why that hill was so wide to start with even when the old PMB was so narrow. Heck they are spending how much to add a climbing lane between 232 and 264th and at stretches in Abbotsford.

I would have probably been happy to have seen 1 HOV + 2 express + 1 climbing | 2 collector exit lanes.

That said, Coquitlam traffic that will be heading up the hill beyond 152nd will have the option of getting onto the collector lanes, staying on the left, and then beyond 152nd merging onto the express lanes effectively bypassing that stretch of the main express highway. I'll reserve judgment for when the entire bridge and all lanes and configurations are completed but I see your point.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Can't disagree. I think given that specific stretch and hill it would make sense to have an extra "climbing lane" for trucks at least until 160th. They could have made the width and that's largely why that hill was so wide to start with even when the old PMB was so narrow. Heck they are spending how much to add a climbing lane between 232 and 264th and at stretches in Abbotsford.

I would have probably been happy to have seen 1 HOV + 2 express + 1 climbing | 2 collector exit lanes.

That said, Coquitlam traffic that will be heading up the hill beyond 152nd will have the option of getting onto the collector lanes, staying on the left, and then beyond 152nd merging onto the express lanes effectively bypassing that stretch of the main express highway. I'll reserve judgment for when the entire bridge and all lanes and configurations are completed but I see your point.

I also agree with this point. Keep in mind the old setup was 4EB and 2WB here! The 4 EB was the two GP lanes plus one climbing lane PLUS an exit lane for 108th, and the truck climbing lane would merge back in around the 152nd overpass. I think we'll see some afternoon rush-hour problems here with trucks too... I guess lets wait and see.

[martinishaker]

Road lines are starting to be painted on the Boundary Road overpass.
http://wcs.pbaeng.com/projects/PMH1
Highway 1 westbound cam shows the progress